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Dd
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Username: Dd

Post Number: 213
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Monday, November 15, 2004 - 3:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Jeremy,
Would you mind looking up in your little EGW info CD (do you like my computer lingo? :-) ) and give me some references for EGW saying there are "health laws" that are as sacred as the 10 Commandments? Thanks for your time. I really appreciate your willingness to give information.
Freeatlast
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Username: Freeatlast

Post Number: 232
Registered: 5-2002
Posted on Monday, November 15, 2004 - 4:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dd, while you are waiting for Jeremy's findings, you may find the following beneficial to your study:

Ellen taught that there was a moral law (10 commandments) and a physical law (the SDA health reform movement). While she may not have made one unified statement that the physical law is equal to the moral law, she certainly implied it in the strongest of language in her writings. Witness:

"At that time the light of health reform dawned upon us, and since that time the questions have come home every day, "Am I practicing true temperance in all things?" "Is my diet such as will bring me in a position where I can accomplish the greatest amount of good?" If we cannot answer these questions in the affirmative, we stand condemned before God, for he will hold us all responsible for the light which has shown upon our path. The time of ignorance God winked at, but as fast as light shines upon us he requires us to change our health-destroying habits, and place ourselves in a right relation to PHYSICAL LAW" (emphasis mine). Incidents by the Way, Review and Herald, Vol. 55 June 17, 1880), p. 386.

Also, "The health reform, I was shown, is a part of the third angel's message and is just as closely connected with it as are the arm and hand with the human body." 1T, p.486

From these 2 statements alone (and there are many others similar to them), it is easy to see that Ellen White taught that health reform was a key component of her remnant church's mission, and that the penalty for not complying with it was the same as breaking one of the moral laws (Sabbath).

-hope that helps.
Jeremy
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Username: Jeremy

Post Number: 102
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Monday, November 15, 2004 - 5:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dd,

Here are a couple of quotes which I found:


quote:

"...It is a duty to know how to preserve the body in the very best condition of health, and it is a sacred duty to live up to the light which God has graciously given. If we close our eyes to the light for fear we shall see our wrongs, which we are unwilling to forsake, our sins are not lessened but increased. If light is turned from in one case, it will be disregarded in another. It is just as much sin to violate the laws of our being as to break one of the Ten Commandments, for we cannot do either without breaking God's law. We cannot love the Lord with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength while we are loving our appetites, our tastes, a great deal better than we love the Lord. We are daily lessening our strength to glorify God, when He requires all our strength, all our mind. By our wrong habits we are lessening our hold on life, and yet professing to be Christ's followers, preparing for the finishing touch of immortality." (Testimonies for the Church, Volume Two, page 70, paragraph 1.)

"Ignorance is no excuse now for the transgression of law. The light shines clearly, and none need be ignorant, for the great God Himself is man's instructor. All are bound by the most sacred obligations to God to heed the sound philosophy and genuine experience which He is now giving them in reference to health reform. He designs that the great subject of health reform shall be agitated and the public mind deeply stirred to investigate; for it is impossible for men and women, with all their sinful, health-destroying, brain-enervating habits, to discern sacred truth, through which they are to be sanctified, refined, elevated, and made fit for the society of heavenly angels in the kingdom of glory." (Testimonies for the Church, Volume Three, page 162, paragraph 1.)




EGW also says that eating meat is a sin!

"We have seen the poor wrecks of humanity come to our sanitariums to be cured of the liquor habit. We have seen those who have ruined their health by wrong habits of diet, and by the use of flesh meats. This is why we need to lift up the voice like a trumpet, and show 'My people their transgressions, and the house of Jacob their sins.'" (The Medical Evangelist, 01-01-1910, paragraph 16.)

She also says that in order to go to heaven you have to not eat meat, and everything else she considered "unhealthful"!


quote:

"Among those who are waiting for the coming of the Lord, meat eating will eventually be done away; flesh will cease to form a part of their diet. We should ever keep this end in view and endeavor to work steadily toward it. I cannot think that in the practice of flesh eating we are in harmony with the light which God has been pleased to give us." (Child Guidance, page 383, paragraph 2.)

"Those who have received instruction regarding the
evils of the use of flesh foods, tea, and coffee, and rich and unhealthful food preparations, and who are determined to make a covenant with God by sacrifice, will not continue to indulge their appetite for food that they know to be unhealthful. God demands that the appetite be cleansed, and that self-denial be practiced in regard to those things which are not good. This is a work that will have to be done before His people can stand before Him a perfected people." (Counsels on Diet and Foods, page 381, paragraph 2.)




"God demands"? Or Ellen demands?

Good grief.

That woman was a cult leader, and a very "good" one at that!

Jeremy
Lydell
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Username: Lydell

Post Number: 647
Registered: 7-2000
Posted on Monday, November 15, 2004 - 8:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mrcato, my son has lived in Huntsville for about 5 years now. There is a HUGE number of Christian churches there. My guess is that the vast majority of folks in the city don't have a clue what an SDA is apart from their name and aren't in the least interested. Huntsville is a big place. Maybe the folks that live near Oakwood might have a somewhat better idea, but for the most part, I'd have to think that Oakwood is just viewed as being another one of the buildings in town.
Lydell
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Username: Lydell

Post Number: 648
Registered: 7-2000
Posted on Monday, November 15, 2004 - 8:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hm....but then again it could be a bit different story in the black community in the area??
Susan_2
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Username: Susan_2

Post Number: 1122
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Monday, November 15, 2004 - 8:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In one place EGW says that the stomach acids will cause the combination of milk and sugar to turn into alcohol. Since alcohol is wrong then to combine milk with sugar is wrong. Many years ago I went to a social of young adults, most of whom were SDA. Everyone was expected to bring something to eat or drink. I brought ice cream. The lady of the house was very polite and told me she would just put the ice cream in her freezer and when I left to go home I could take it with me. Sitting around visiting the group got to discussing how fortunate they were to have the health message. I spoke up and asked what was wrong with ice cream. I was informed that no one who is sincere about alcohol avoidance would ever consider eating ice cream because of what EGW says. Sometimes when I read about all the drunk driving arrests I wonder how many of those poor unspecting drunk drives were drunk from a milkshake? Ha! Ha! I'll bet none of them. Also, I wondered how man of the SDA's who really believe EGW was so advanced in her health message put milk and sugar on their morning cereal or into their morning coffee, which they are not supposed to have anyway but we know most of them do. I have yet to figure out how the individual Adventists go about choosing what of EGW's health message is to be followed and what is to be ignored. Yet, EGW said all of her writings are to be followed. Dang, it's giving me a head spin just trying to make heads or tails out of it.
Dd
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Username: Dd

Post Number: 214
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Monday, November 15, 2004 - 9:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Free and Jeremy,

Just when I think I have found all the SDA "dirty laundry"...there's always more!

Thanks for your time and effort - I really appreciate it!
Raven
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Username: Raven

Post Number: 102
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 16, 2004 - 5:22 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Susan, I had forgotten about the milk and sugar together prohibition! While we were allowed to have ice cream on rare occasion, I'm pretty sure EGW's prohibition is the reason we weren't allowed to put sugar on our cereal. I had been told that when you have milk and sugar together it turns to alcohol in your stomach. While that was not enough to get a person drunk, supposedly it did encourage people towards a tendency to desire alcoholoic beverages--that's where the problem was.

Having been brought up without sugar on my cereal, I still prefer unsweetened cereals and I don't put sugar on. The sugar&milk=alcohol was a crazy reason, but I'm kind of glad I didn't get spoiled with having to have everything sweetened. I think it's healthier to have less sugar in the diet. However, I'm not fanatical about that. I do have dessert a few times a week.
Susan_2
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Username: Susan_2

Post Number: 1124
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Tuesday, November 16, 2004 - 8:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Raven, It seems as though I keep reminding you of things long forgotten. It also seems that a lot of us on here grew up with the same restrictions. Dang, we might as well all been living in some commune out in the boonies somewhere-we were all raised the same anyway. It just proves to me that in SDA'ism individualism is not encouraged. Everyone pretty much is a clone of each other with regards to everything-dress, entertainment, food, rituals, everything. That's spooky. Most SDA's I know will say the unclean/clean foods requirements are not sin but rather are God-given health laws. Then I will say, "If you really don't believe certain meat isn't a sin then how coe you are so careful to find out the ingredeiants of everything you eat? Think about it, if you don't think it's a sin then for sure a teeny tiny amunt of lard or pork cooked into something you eat isn't going to make you get any sicker or die any sooner so what's the big deal?" I have yet to get a satafactory answer. Then I read to them the text that says to eat whatever is set before you so you will not cause anyone to stumble because of food.
Raven
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Username: Raven

Post Number: 105
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 16, 2004 - 9:01 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Several months ago, when I was ready to leave SDAism but hadn't announced it yet, I was forwarded an e-mail about some alert that was circulating. It was telling people that it was possible for meat products to be in food, but not be stated as such on the label--it would be hidden as "flavorings". Appparently, there's a movement among certain vegetarians (perhaps only SDA ones?) to force the food industry to clearly state on all labels if there is even a smidgen of meat product in it.

I remember that I replied to the person who sent me the e-mail, that I didn't think a small, occasional amount of animal product was going to adversely affect either my physical or my spiritual health. I didn't get a reply back.
Jeremy
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Username: Jeremy

Post Number: 106
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 16, 2004 - 9:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Did you know that EGW herself was addicted to alcohol? http://ellenwhite.org/contra9.htm

Maybe that explains some of the nonsense in her writings. ;-)

Notice in one of the quotes that I posted above she says that it is "impossible for men and women" to get to heaven without following her health reform!

And here's one more blasphemous false gospel quote from The Desire of Ages!

"His example declares that our only hope of eternal life is through bringing the appetites and passions into subjection to the will of God." (The Desire of Ages, page 122, paragraph 2.)

Jeremy
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 952
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Tuesday, November 16, 2004 - 10:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jeremy, thanks for posting that link. I have long suspected that Ellen's addiction to "vinegar" was really alcoholism. I didn't know the details about homemade vinegar from those days, but I did know that vinegar is the end result if alcohol is allowed to continue fermenting past a certain point. I've suspected that Ellen indulged an appetite for alcohol in some form. Nothing else could explain her description of withdrawal so well! As the link points out, people don't get addicted to acetic acid, the main component in vinegar!

I had a best friend when I was in sixth and seventh grades whose family were strict vegetarians--at least, they would never allow a morsel of meat in any form to pass their lips. Ironically, however, they used cheese liberally, and they always had ice cream in their freezer and served it regulary with dessert. They didn't drink milk, but they DID eat ice cream! I have vivid memories of the amazing cheese-filled entrees my friend's mom made, and also of the truly yummy but astonishingly rich desserts she served. My Adventist mom disapproved of this lady's rich cooking, but I loved eating at her house!

BTW, Raven, I think much of the movement toward full disclosure of animal products comes from groups such as PETA and other non-cruelty groups who oppose using animal products in any form for human use or consumption. I find it very intersting that Adventism actually finds itself on the same page--albeit with somewhat different reasons--with various extreme environmental groups with powerful political lobbies.

Colleen
Melissa
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Username: Melissa

Post Number: 581
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - 9:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I heard on the local news a day or two ago that there was a traffic tie up at rush hour because some people were holding up a banner on an overpass protesting the killing of turkeys for thanksgiving. I think the animal rights activists put out a lot of mis-information to scare people to their way of thinking. It supports what SDAs want to believe, so they're sortof a support for each other...
Mrcato
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Username: Mrcato

Post Number: 7
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - 11:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Lydell,
Thanks for that info...I was always curious about the influence that Oakwood has in Huntsville...I've never been there so I wasn't sure about the size of the city, etc...I interact with a lot of people who have graduated from there and I've always gotten the impression that it was a prevalent force there. But thanks for giving me that insight :-)
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 973
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2004 - 9:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LONEVIKING--Bill--if you're out there, please email me at formeradventist@yahoo.com I accidentally hit the delet button on your email this week, and I can't find your email address. (We've changed email accounts...)

Sorry!
Colleen
Hrobinsonw
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Username: Hrobinsonw

Post Number: 95
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2004 - 9:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

MrCato, It does have a big influence. I graduated from a Historically Black College across town from Oakwood. They make pilgrimages to my University and preach sermons in the auditorium each year. A good number of people convert. There is a Wal-Mart that is SDA central. I mean, an entire store, literally. They have their own designated sub shop called Stanlieos. It serves vegetarian corn beef, ham and turkey. On Oakwood's Alumni weekend, You cannot find a hotel in town, and Stanlieos is like an Adventist night club. They have their own carribean night club called Oasis. Saturday nights when the sun sets they scamper all over town to find new outfits to wear to Oasis. I work amongst Adventist at my job. Are you getting the picture yet? It is crazy down here. I didn't know what an Adventist was until I came to Huntsville.
Hrobinsonw
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Username: Hrobinsonw

Post Number: 96
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2004 - 9:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh, Colleen. My fiance is midway through Cultic Doctirine. She cannot put it down. Last night was the most interesting night of my life with her. She had so many questions, and she was so angry. She was just naming people off that were having questions about there faith that needed to talk to me or read that book.
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 975
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2004 - 9:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yup--that book opened up a whole reality to me that I had glimpsed but never seen clearly. My prayers for you and her continue.

Colleen
Esther
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Username: Esther

Post Number: 86
Registered: 5-2004
Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2004 - 10:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thats for sure! If you're questioning at all when you read that book, as far as I'm concerned...there's no going back.

Also, I had no idea that Huntsville was such an SDA Mecca. I thought Berrien Spr. was bad enough.
Hrobinsonw
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Username: Hrobinsonw

Post Number: 97
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2004 - 12:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Esther, it is crazy down here. You can literally spot an Adventist when you go on that side of town. From Oakwood to Wal Mart is pretty much owned by them.


And Colleen, I read Cultic Doctirine and I am almost finished with Sabbath in Christ and I have to say, that I am more of a non-Adventist than I was before I started reading them.

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