| Author | Message | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 951 Registered: 12-2003 |
Jerry, it's good to hear from you again! I agree with your comments. The arrogance and conceit are definitely part of the Adventist ethos. Of course, Adventists don't think they're arrogant or conceited about Sabbath, but looking back on it--I realize I was, and I know I was not alone. It was THE TRUTH, after all--the truth which no one else had! I remember so vividly a brief conversation I had with another SDA woman in Loma Linda just a year or so before we realized we had to leave the church. She said to me, "I don't know how anybody lives without the Sabbath!" To which I replied, "I surely don't either!" I remember often thinking that very thought. I'll never forget my surprise and shame when I finally realized that Jesus' perpetual rest for me, His constant presence in my life, far suprassed whatever blessings the Sabbath had afforded. Yes, I would say there's definitely some arrogance and conceit involved in "having the Sabbath". And the guilt when one begins to understand the deception is real and normal. It's just hard to peel off the deep layers of belief we had about that day, even when those beliefs turn out to be false! Colleen | ||
| Freeatlast Registered user Username: Freeatlast Post Number: 233 Registered: 5-2002 |
I remember when I let my brother know that I had abandoned Seventh-day Adventism, he made the following statement to me: "You worship God any way you want, and I'll keep worshipping Him the way HE wants." It was one of the most arrogant statements I have ever heard from a professing Christian, and it seems to me like a fair representatoin of the spirit of Adventism. | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 44 Registered: 8-2004 |
It's an attitude I keep running up against as well helovesme2 | ||
| Esther Registered user Username: Esther Post Number: 81 Registered: 5-2004 |
You guys make me smile! I agree that the attitude is a HUGE issue. I've specifically felt this for the past couple weeks as I deal with family and the people I work with. Though word of our leaving is traveling through the gossip chain at break-neck speeds, and friends tell me here and there that so-and-so was talking about us, NO ONE WILL ASK ME ANYTHING. I just want to scream it out sometimes. I have all this heart felt love, and know more texts than I've ever before understood...and no one will talk to me about it. I miss the heartfelt discussion of things of God that we have here...but is so absent in the SDA realm. Even our pastor (at the SDA church) who knows we're pulling our membership...and who tells everyone he's got to meet with us first, yet he won't contact us. He will make announcements in church meetings to pray for us because we're "in crisis"...but he won't even come to find out if he can "help" us himself. I think he's afraid that if he actually comes, there won't be anything he can do. Anyway...that was my rant for the day  Thanks for letting me vent! It's the issue that they won't talk about it. It'd be one thing if they'd at least discuss it - even if they didn't agree...but they feel SO much better because, as one blessed soul told me, "don't study too much,the devil can be very deceiving". Couldn't have said it better than you PW: "how did I get involved in this cult"... (oo wait, I was born into it) But, on the other hand, thanks be to God in all things...with Adventism in my life, I do now at least understand GRACE! PRAISE HIM forever! | ||
| Vchowdhury1 Registered user Username: Vchowdhury1 Post Number: 76 Registered: 7-2004 |
A couple of evenings ago I had a discussion with my mom about how conceited and arrogant the sda church is. You can tell by the statements they make like being the "remnant" church, of having "the message", of being "God's chosen" church, of being "the commandment keepers", etc., etc. We've also heard statements like, "during the time of trouble, all good Christians who don't keep the Sabbath now, will turn to the Sabbath". I think that this is also a way to keep the members IN the organization. They make their members think that if they leave the sda church, their very salvation is in danger, and not only that, they will also receive the "mark of the beast" (I heard this so often while growing up in the sda church). These comments are enough to scare anyone to death about even thinking about leaving the church! This is how most cults keep their members under control, by letting them believe they will be "lost" if they leave the organization, and therefore those that do decide that it is time to leave (like myself and the others in this forum) have this tremendous sense of guilt. I'm sure that there have been some who have left and returned to the sda organization (which is a very scary thought)because of this guilt. That is why it is soooo very important for us "formers" to study the word of God. Because those who left and did not study The Word could be subjected to deception again especially after that sda "ministerial visit" to our homes, that call from the sda Bible worker, and the pressure from current sda church members (especially if they're friends or family). After I made my final decision to leave the sda organization, I avoided these pressures because I had my "sword" (word of God) sharpened by consistant study. The members of my former sda church don't say to much to me. But those that have tried to argue with me get "cut down" with scripture. SDA's really have no defense once EGW has been removed from all of their arguments. I usually ask the people that I know, that are still sda, to name one "prediction" that EGW made that has come true. This usually stops the argument "dead in its tracks". They have nothing to say once EGW has been discredited in the conversation. And, I noticed that most sda's don't really know the scriptures! All they know is the small pockets of verses that have been ingrained in them here and there through the "Sabbath School" Lessons. These days, sda's run from me Praise God. | ||
| Another_carol Registered user Username: Another_carol Post Number: 260 Registered: 12-2002 |
re:Post # 210 Did the founding SDA fathers (with the help of EGW) actually determine the "best way" to build a denomination? Not ever having been an SDA and only learning about it in 1998 I must say that I have had the same thoughts. I have come to the conclusion that if and when you allow something else to take over your spiritual awareness from God then most anything can happen hence we see many cults which claim the propensity to be Christian. I had these thoughts when I first encountered SDA and some things that God had laid in my path many years before were to be the instrument which made it clear to me that this was not of God and even though it was said many times that they use only the Bible I did not buy it. The thing that was laid in my path was a man from our church who was inculted into the Moonies and when his parents had him taken out and deprogramed some time later he spoke to us. The Bible that I was using then had 2 portions of scripture underlined in it. The only Bible that I ever wrote in until 1998. These verses were those that you could look to to see if an organization was in fact a cult. They were: 2 Peter 2 False Teachers and Their Destruction 1But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves. and: 1 John 2 22Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist--he denies the Father and the Son. I have come to believe without a doubt that those verses were put in my path by God Himself for this express time. I totally understand your thoughts, Another Carol | ||
| Mitsy Registered user Username: Mitsy Post Number: 26 Registered: 11-2004 |
Yes, I do occasionally have a twinge of guilt at times, but because I wasn't raised in this faith, (or any church that observed the Sabbath) I don't have nearly as much as the average former SDA. Not being a member maybe gave me an easier way out of it. Bottom line is this--I do not believe that society in general will ever do a complete turn and recognize Sat. as the day to attend church instead of Sun. It's been this way for too many years. I'm required to work on Saturdays, and that also had influence on my decision to quit attending the Sabbath meetings. By comparison, I personally hate daylight savings time as I see it as an archiac time change that gains nothing for anyone (we can't make the day longer no matter what we do, the sun just stays up for more hours during the summer). I've signed polls to eliminate daylight savings time, but I doubt very seriously that anything will change with this. Same with the Sabbath, I just don't see the majority of the people in this country ever getting the day changed because of Sabbath keepers (Adventists and others who worship on Saturday). It's almost like trying to put a square peg into a round hole--just won't work. | ||
| Carol_2 Registered user Username: Carol_2 Post Number: 187 Registered: 2-2002 |
Welcome back "Another Carol." Haven't seen you for a while, and thought maybe you'd left! Was even starting to sign my posts just "Carol," instead of Carol #2 because I thought maybe I was the only Carol left! This conversation is reminding me of a book I read when I was very young, probably only about 10 or 11, called "Now." (I think that was the name.) I remember it scared me to death! All about the end-time and SDAs that left the truth, and were deceived by the "Sunday-keepers." From time to time I still think about that book, wondering if "we" are the deceived SDAs in that book that left the truth. Intellectually I don't believe it, but it's just the SDA baggage I still carry with me. One scene that I particularly remember was the family was trying to flee to the mountains, and needed gas in their car, but couldn't buy it because they didn't have the "Mark of the Beast." Does anyone else remember this book? Love you all, Carol #2 | ||
| Vchowdhury1 Registered user Username: Vchowdhury1 Post Number: 78 Registered: 7-2004 |
Yes, Carol #2. I remember the "Now" book all to well! In fact our church put on a play about it when I was in high school. It scared me to death also. Wasn't it written by a little adventist girl about 13 or 14? | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 106 Registered: 7-2004 |
Yes, I remember reading that book! It seems like I was around 12 or so. We have a book in our home called "Betrayal" by Merikay McLeod, the very same author of "Now". This second book was the true story about how Merikay ended up in a lawsuit with Pacific Press Publishing Association back in the early 70's. This was because they were violating the newly passed Equal Employment Opportunity Act by continuing to pay males a "Head of Household" income that in effect had every female employee receiving far less in wages. It's a fascinating story where she even takes on the General Conference President. I tells about her conversations with him, Neil Wilson, when he came to visit her at her apartment to "clear things up" so there wouldn't have to be a lawsuit. She won the lawsuit, but it totally tore her up. I just wonder what she's doing today. Near the end of this book, Merikay writes "I no longer belong to the church. I have been expelled through the wrenching birth of knowledge...knowledge I did not seek, but can never forget. I have emerged from the shattering experience a new person, with a renewed sense of purpose and hope." Guess that means she's also a "former." I first read this book during our days at Andrews University in the mid-80's, and it make a deep impression on me back then. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 957 Registered: 12-2003 |
My understanding is that Merikay lost her marriage after the fracas surrounding her Pacific Press trauma, but she did remarry. That book, "Betrayal", was a most revealing book. There were certainly many lies and manipulations from people in very high places. It totally fits, though, with the questionable goings on I glimpsed during the Folkeberg event in 1999-2000. Colleen (Message edited by admin on June 17, 2006) | ||
| Carol_2 Registered user Username: Carol_2 Post Number: 188 Registered: 2-2002 |
How interesting! I'd love to hear what has become of Merikay! | ||
| Freeatlast Registered user Username: Freeatlast Post Number: 235 Registered: 5-2002 |
Oh yeah, "NOW". The heroine is rescued by the second coming just as the executioner is about to throw the switch on the electric chair. That's the one, right? Scared the bejeepers outta me. Wonderfully healthy, balanced reading for a young impressionable child....(sarcasm). Sidenote: My father (who taught Bible in SDA academies for over 35 years) wrote a manuscript about a group of SDA kids who have to flee in order to escape the Sunday law death penalty. It was actually quite well written, but Revew & Herald Publishing declined to publish it. | ||
| Carol_2 Registered user Username: Carol_2 Post Number: 189 Registered: 2-2002 |
Yes, I did a search on the author's name (she wrote it at 17, in academy,) and at one website I read the first bit of it (don't know how much it was, just stopped.) It was very interesting how after the Sunday laws were passed, the girl & her brother busily began trying to confess every sin they could remember. Ugh! Talk about depressing stuff! | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 425 Registered: 1-2003 |
The book terrified me too. I seem to remember that a neighbor was once in the "Sabbath truth" but rejected it and then didn't the neighbor try to turn the Sabbath keepers in. I know there is a lot of fear about former SDA being the ones to persecute the SDA the most...I think this idea might have came from Ellen. Even now, my husband totally believes a Sunday law will be passed. He says something cataclismic will have to happen first...I remember there was a lot of fear of it after 9-11. But even when I was SDA, I just couldn't understand how God could make us pass a test that wasn't plainly spelled out for us in scripture. I couldn't find any proof that Sabbath keeping was the final test we had to pass. Still, I lived in fear, I thought to reject the Sabbath was to reject Jesus. I had my kids well trained in Sabbath keeping...if the radio got left on secular music when we got in the car for church, my son would dive for the dial like his life depended on changing that station! Now I see that I was living a legalistic nightmare thinking I could please God in this way. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 963 Registered: 12-2003 |
Yes, Pheeki--Ellen said that the worst "enemies" of Sabbath-keepers at the end will be those who once knew but left the "truth". It won't be the "world"--it'll be the former Adventists who will be Adventists' worst persecutors. This belief is why a family member asked Richard if he was going to shoot her one day. Absolutely amazing. Deception is a deep and complex thing. Ony Jesus can cleanse us from its insidious effects. Colleen | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 57 Registered: 7-2004 |
Thank you for mentioning that bit of Adventist folklore. It explains that little edginess that my family members who are still under the Adventist umbrella seem to have whenever some of us "former SDA" family members are around. I remember that knot in my stomach and the suspicion I had almost all of the time while I was still "a believer." Thank you, Colleen, for mentioning that God has promised to redeem the bad years. I consider the years living in fear under the effects of Adventism to be my lost years. God is so good and he loves us all so dearly. Thank God the blinders do come off and we can finally draw a confident breath! | ||
| Pw Registered user Username: Pw Post Number: 184 Registered: 6-2004 |
Does anyone remember a book called Project Sunlight (I believe that was the title). It was a fictional account of a girl named Sunlight who lived in the O.T. time era. Bottom line is that this story really focused on the importance of Sabbath keeping...OR ELSE! I never could accept the fact that if you didn't keep Saturday once the Sunday Blue Laws went into effect that you would be put to death. Talk about propaganda being twisted. | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 46 Registered: 8-2004 |
I think maybe you're confusing two books. "Sunlight" was a fictional account of a young woman, a devorcee I think, who finds out about the Sabbath and other special doctrins just about the time of probation ending. She ends up out in the country living with an unlikely group of fellowbelievers when the death sentence comes down and the second coming begins. I don't remember the title of the other one but the girl ends up being Noah's mother inlaw and being killed just before the flood or something. helovesme2 | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 427 Registered: 1-2003 |
I get project Sonlight and Now confused. I actually thought they were the same book. One is set in Berrien Springs, Michigan, I think. I wonder if they are still in print and if they are if MariKay wants to stop them or did the GC buy the rights? |
