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Archive through November 26, 2004Magpie20 11-26-04  4:32 pm
Archive through December 01, 2004Colleentinker20 12-01-04  8:28 am
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Madelia
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Username: Madelia

Post Number: 98
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Wednesday, December 01, 2004 - 9:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This discussion reminds me of something I've wanted to ask: has anyone heard of the CHIP program? Apparently it's an Adventist health program, I think particularly geared to dealing with Type 2 diabetes. Someone at the SDA church was surprised I didn't know all about it, since I'm a diabetes educator.

And, has anyone ever seen a Dr. Thrash on 3ABN? She looks pretty unhealthy to me!
Pw
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Username: Pw

Post Number: 200
Registered: 6-2004
Posted on Wednesday, December 01, 2004 - 10:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Our bodies are prone to decay due to sin and trying to say it's because of not following EGW's diet plans is nonsense.
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 1020
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Wednesday, December 01, 2004 - 11:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, Madelia, I know of CHIP. We used to do the newsletter for Hans Diehl, the program's founder. It's spread widely since its start in the mid 80s or so--

Hans Diehl patterned his program largely after the Pritikin Diet which was quite well-known in the 80s. It was a highly restrictive diet designed for cardiac patients. It had quite good success with reversing many of the effects of heart diesease, but the diet, as I said, is highly restrictive and is a therapeutic diet.

As I recall, the Pritikin diet did allow for some chicken and turkey and fish. Diehl, however, being an SDA health educator (whose doctorate is in public health but who never disabused anyone of the idea he was an MD if he were introduced with that implication) created his own vegan version of the diet. He also incorporated the NEWSTART ideas from Wiemar's health program. His newsletter also included quotes from the Harvard(?) Health Letter and other sources he deemed suitable.

He developed a program of travelling to churches where he would conduct classes in cutting out fat and dairy and meat from the diet, including significant exercise in the day, etc. He would test glucose blood levels and cholesterol, and at the end of the week or 10 days, he would check levels again and hope the people would continue with their programs. His CHIP courses also included vegan cooking schools.

The program has apparently grown hugely since we quit doing his newsletter. His research is mostly borrowed research from others who have run experimental programs, but it I always felt his agenda kept him from truly teaching a well-balanced program. As I said, the Pritikin diet is therapeutic, but Diehl pressed not only those with heart problems or diabetes to follow it; he tried to educate the general public to adopt it as a preventative diet.

Further, he would runs health news stories which appeared to promote a vegan approach to living, but his stories lacked context. For example, I remember one report he ran in his newsletter which was reprinted, I believe, from the Harvard health letter. It showed that high quantities of protein in the diet actually leached calcium from the body and excreted it in the urine. His point was that people eating large amounts of dairly products to try to boost their calcium intake were basically shooting themselves in the foot. No one, he said, needs as much protein as the governmental guidelines say we do. Further, leaving out the cottage cheese and milk would leave your protein gleaned from other sources intact.

Some things bothered me: first, how much protein does one have to eat before it leaches out the calcium? Second, are their some kinds of calcium that are more stable than other? I know some are more easily used by the body than others; are certain kinds more easily flushed out as well? Third: the implication that eating dairy products will harm one's calcium absorption seemed an unsound conclusion. If protein is the "enemy", will the protein in dairy leach one's calcium if one it NOT also eating meat? Etc.

These are the kinds of things Diehl would teach without giving the full context. The result, I've always suspected, is that while some people with fairly critical medical conditions might be helped by the CHIP program--as they also are by the Pritikin program, etc.--, many others are being deceived into adopting food patterns that may not only be useless but harmful for them as well.

People who learn to eat the CHIP way must, as do those who go to Wiemar, learn to cook in whole new ways. They must learn to eat and cook only whole grains. They must eliminate all free fats from the diet (no oils, margarine, butter, etc.). Only oils naturally occurring in whole foods are OK (avocado, nuts, etc.). They must learn to balance their legume intake with grains such as corn, etc., to get a complete complement of amino acids. It's just a pain, in my humble opinion!

Anyway, that's what I know about CHIP--it's old info, but I can't believe the diet has significantly changed. After all, Wiemar is still using a similar or identical diet.

Colleen
Madelia
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Username: Madelia

Post Number: 99
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Wednesday, December 01, 2004 - 11:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Colleen. The person I spoke to has lived in California, so it makes sense when you say Weimar institute. When I tried to do a search on CHIP, I came up with things on potato chips and on the old CHIPS TV program :-)

I wanted to find some things to print off and show my dietitian colleagues (I'm a nurse). And I'd love to get a their perspectives on your questions too.

My husband was going off this weekend again about the diet in Eden: fruit, grains and nuts. How come I don't read anything in Genesis about what they ate other than the fact that Adam and Eve took bites from the forbidden fruit? And all that business about our diet in heaven, that we'll just be eating fruit!! All I read is that there will be different types of fruit. Same song, second verse, a little bit louder, a little bit worse is what I think when he starts on one of his "sermons". And I also pray to bit my tongue!
Jeremy
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Username: Jeremy

Post Number: 146
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Wednesday, December 01, 2004 - 12:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tell him we aren't in Eden anymore. We are in a fallen state and we need other nutrients!

SDAs and EGW try to say that meat was a curse. But it was a part of the blessing in Genesis 9! Vegetables were a part of the curse (Genesis 3). Once again, the SDAs and EGW have it all backwards!

I found this great web site the other day which includes stuff about Adventism. It is very interesting and talks a little bit about the dangers of the SDA "health message."

Here is the link to their overview of Adventism: http://www.seghea.com/pat/bible/sdaoverview.html.

And you can get links to all the pages about Adventism on that web site here.

Jeremy
Pw
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Username: Pw

Post Number: 204
Registered: 6-2004
Posted on Wednesday, December 01, 2004 - 12:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm sure some of you guys have seen a website or t-shirts about Jesus being a vegetarian. How on earth they come up with that theology is beyond me. It clearly says he ate fish, even in his resurrected body. Plus, he kept the Passover Feast (before he went to the cross) where it required eating lamb. Anyway, I think the SDA's have some kind of ties with Peta.
Susan_2
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Username: Susan_2

Post Number: 1171
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Wednesday, December 01, 2004 - 1:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In my kinfolk the main text they have memorized is "Thy body is the temple of the LORD". They don't even have the entire text memorized or even understand the context in which that text is written. They only know that much of that text. They use this text to avoid most everything that grosses them out and they use this text to induldge in whatever they are craving. Also, get this one: many (and yes, I tryly mean many) SDA's that I am near and dear to in order to get out of eating or drinking something that is abhorrant to them when they are a guest in someones home, at a community or work function, taken out to dinner, whatever, will not come right out and tell the non-SDA host they are SDA and the food item or drink is against their religion. I'm not making this up. They tell the host they have an allergy to whatever it is that they won't eat or drink. I have confronted nuerous SDA loved ones on this blatent non-truth (or as someone on here said awhile back, a LIE) and I get the same reply every time. They are allergc to sin. Sin will lead to eternal annilation and that is an allergy just as being allergic to prefume makes some people sneeze. They ell me they do it this way because non-truthers don't understand and would think they're stupid but everyone has empathy and understanding about allergies.
Madelia
Registered user
Username: Madelia

Post Number: 100
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Wednesday, December 01, 2004 - 1:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Colleen. The person I spoke to has lived in California, so it makes sense when you say Weimar institute. When I tried to do a search on CHIP, I came up with things on potato chips and on the old CHIPS TV program :-)

I wanted to find some things to print off and show my dietitian colleagues (I'm a nurse). And I'd love to get a their perspectives on your questions too.

My husband was going off this weekend again about the diet in Eden: fruit, grains and nuts. How come I don't read anything in Genesis about what they ate other than the fact that Adam and Eve took bites from the forbidden fruit? And all that business about our diet in heaven, that we'll just be eating fruit!! All I read is that there will be different types of fruit. Same song, second verse, a little bit louder, a little bit worse is what I think when he starts on one of his "sermons". And I also pray to bit my tongue!
Chris
Registered user
Username: Chris

Post Number: 472
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Wednesday, December 01, 2004 - 8:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dennis, the excerpt you posted was interesting, particularly the part about SDAs under-reporting certain frowned upon activities.

My in-laws constantly say they are vegetarians and I'm sure they would identify themselves as vegetarian on a survey. They are not. They eat meat, poultry, and fish (provided it is "clean") both at home and in resturants.

As far as I'm concerned, either choice is fine. If you choose a vegetarian diet, great! If you choose a well balanced diet that includes a moderate amount of animal products, great! I don't really care, but why on earth would you repeatedly state that you are one thing when in reality you practice something completely different?

It's strange, they don't hide the fact that eat meat, but as far as I can tell, they feel that since they also eat some Loma Linda and Worthington products they can rightly say, "We're vegetarians".

It used to send me over the edge back when I was a militant anti-meat person, but now I just find it slightly odd.

Chris
Jeremy
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Username: Jeremy

Post Number: 147
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Wednesday, December 01, 2004 - 9:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hehe. Meat-eating vegetarians! Now that is a little odd. ;-)

Jeremy
Madelia
Registered user
Username: Madelia

Post Number: 101
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Thursday, December 02, 2004 - 7:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jeremy, thanks for sharing those links!

Pw
Registered user
Username: Pw

Post Number: 206
Registered: 6-2004
Posted on Thursday, December 02, 2004 - 10:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Chris, I'm really going out on a limb here, but as to your meat eating vegetarians...it's like SDA's saying they are Christian when they really are trusting in EGW's version of salvation by keeping O.T. laws.
Melissa
Registered user
Username: Melissa

Post Number: 607
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Thursday, December 02, 2004 - 11:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Madelia, B went to one of those chips class, and he is in some sort of hero-worship state with the guy now. He thinks he walks on water, and when I got concerned when Colleen shared the above info with me, and shared it with him, he went on full-front offensive. Even though he didn't know anyone who personally knew the guy or how he got his information, he started quoting this propoganda that sounded like a sales flyer...now who would you trust more, an MD or someone with a doctorate in public health... blah blah blah. It was an attack I NEVER would have anticipated. I washed my hands of it. It's just further proof that I shouldn't even bother. I just don't know when to quit sometimes.
Madelia
Registered user
Username: Madelia

Post Number: 106
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Friday, December 03, 2004 - 7:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Melissa, B and Sam sound so much alike; maybe we should get them together so they can pat each other on the back for how virtuous they are!!

Speaking of hero-worship, Sam listens to Doug Batchelor almost continually. I overheard one of the tapes a few weeks ago when he does his bible questions with his wife. He was talking about listening to bible tapes when he goes to bed. Sure enough, Sam has started running a tape every night. I don't do well with listening to talking when I'm trying to sleep. It's driving me nuts!
Freeatlast
Registered user
Username: Freeatlast

Post Number: 247
Registered: 5-2002
Posted on Friday, December 03, 2004 - 1:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh that qualifies as cruel and unusual punishment!
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady

Post Number: 798
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Friday, December 03, 2004 - 8:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Madelia,
Are you comfortable using ear plugs??
Diana

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