| Author | Message | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1138 Registered: 11-2002 |
As you all by now know I have a real issue with much of what I read in the SDA publications. I would have to say other than the Annoying (non)Facts stuff the publication which grates on my nerves the most is The Signs of the Times. However, the December issue of The Review came several days ago. I want to share with you a small paragraph found on page 6 in an article titled, Reflections on a Unique Conference by, William G. Johnnson. "During the past three years the SDA church has conveined a series of unique conferences as scientists, theologans, and administrators come together to discuss the bibical teaching of creation. You would not find Lutherans, Baptists, Methodists, Prespyterians or Catholics devoting time to this topic: they long since abdondanded any attempt at a literal unerstanding of Genesis in favor of evuation. Nor would fundamentalist groups that denigrate science involve themselves in such an eneterprise. / Advenists stand apart. On one hand we take the Bible seriousely; we affrim the primacy of scripture in our understanding of who we are and how life originated. ..." Now, here I go again with my ranting about the misinformation ("lies" is such a harsh word) The SDA leaders instill in their devotees. As a true-blue Lutheran I can tell everyone that we hear the creation story in the Lutheran church just as it is laid out in Genesis 1. I have attended a lot of Baptist services and they too give the creation story as it is stated in Genesis 1. I also have attended Catholic services and have heard the creation story as it is stated in Genesis 1. In fact, it is those very groups that are having issues with the public schools for teaching only evalution/the big bang theory to the kids. I have never heard of a SDA getting out and petitioning the public school system to chill out on the teaching of evaluion, it is alwways the fundamentalis and the other denominations Johnsson mentions that do that. "Adventists stand apart. ...We take the Bible seriouselly..." Wow! That sure does in no uncertain terms tell the readers of the Review that Christans who are not SDA do not take the Bible seriousely. This is TRASH! And, tel me, how do the fundamentalists denigrate science? And, allthis and I'm only on page 6! I wonder what other non-truth I will find in the next 42 pages! | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 132 Registered: 10-2004 |
I am furious!!! It is definitely LIES!! That is not too harsh of a word. Here is a paragraph from the recent Associated Press story (about the SDAs affirming a literal 6-day creation): "But the Adventists are not alone. Besides independent creationist ministries, the 403,000-member Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Church believes that 'the creation happened in the course of six consecutive days of normal length.' The 2.5 million-member Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod defends a strictly literal reading of Genesis history."--http://www.tdn.com/articles/2004/11/06/this_day/news03.txt That Review article is all lies. It is pure garbage! It goes directly against the very wording of the AP article! Johnsson says, "...Lutherans...long since abandoned any attempt at a literal understanding of Genesis..." The AP article says, "The 2.5 million-member Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod defends a strictly literal reading of Genesis history." Can you get any more false than Johnsson's article?!?! What about ministries like Answers in Genesis or Institute for Creation Research??!!! What about all of the Christian colleges, universities, and other schools which teach Creation AND science??!!??!! What about the thousands of churches who teach Creation AND science??!! What about all of the Baptist churches, whole Lutheran denominations, and Calvary Chapel which is involved in the Creation movement--founder Chuck Smith is very active in promoting Creation!!! And these people actually believe in a young earth, around 6,000 years old, too!! A lot of SDAs believe in an old earth even though they believe that creation was recent and in a literal 6 days! Does he mean that "fundamentalists" "denigrate science" because they believe in young earth?? Or he's just promoting the falsehood that "fundamentalists" don't care about science! Man, this makes me angry! I'll end my rant now. Jeremy | ||
| Freeatlast Registered user Username: Freeatlast Post Number: 240 Registered: 5-2002 |
Jeremy, the literal creation "week" is vitally important to the theory that the Sabbath was a literal "evening and morning" day, the 7th day of creation week. Without a literal rendering of a 24-hour Sabbath day, after which Adam, Eve, and God went back to work, the SDA theory that the Sabbath day commandment was instituted at creation falls flat on its face. Nowhere does Scripture tell us that God's rest was only for 24 hours and that He went back to work on Sunday (Saturday after sunset). Also, Scripture does not tell us how much time elapsed between Adam & Eve being created and their fall. It could have been millions of years for all we know. | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1139 Registered: 11-2002 |
Yes, There can be an eternity between Gen 1:1 and Gen 1:2. However, my problem with the Review artcle was that Mr. Johnsson says such blatent lies about other denominations and fudamentalists. He also says that SDA's unlike the other Christans take the Bible seriousely. I immagine you can read the article online. The other churches do teach a literal six day creation week and that God rested on the seventh day. The little kids at the Sunday School where I attend recently finished a unit on the creation story. How can this Johnsson fellow have a clear conscience putting out such non-truth? Furthermore, do most SDA's who read this actually believe what those SDA authors say? Don't the SDA's read the newspapers or watch the news for themselves? If they do then they will see that what is in this article is not true. | ||
| 33ad Registered user Username: 33ad Post Number: 129 Registered: 10-2004 |
You're right Susan, Although orthodoxy does not put a time frame on the first week, we do affirm a 6 day creation week followed by an unending rest (Which we call the 8th Day)But I won't go into that here. The point is, most true christians believe in the Creation Week, and not just the SDA's. Loren | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1141 Registered: 11-2002 |
One more thing about the article I entioned. We have established that the atcle is full f lies. The SDA church claims to be the ONLY church, the remnant that keeps all the 10 Commandments. Last time I read the 10 Commandments one of them said, "Thou shalt not bear false wittness". So, how do they recncile the lies they instill in their faithful with saying they observe the 10 Cmmandments? | ||
| Pw Registered user Username: Pw Post Number: 191 Registered: 6-2004 |
Speaking of SDA publications, does anyone recall a book called What I Like About...Lutherans, Baptists, Pentecostals, etc.? I forget who the author was, but it was given to me when I first became an SDA in 1985. It was a really moronic book as the author spoke about various denominations and how he nit-picked the minor things about them that he found favorable. Of course, none of them were as good as the SDA in his opinion. | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 596 Registered: 7-2003 |
Oh, Susan, I know the answer to that one....you're not supposed to lie about your neighbor. That is limited to very few people......I promise that's what I was told..... | ||
| Madelia Registered user Username: Madelia Post Number: 96 Registered: 2-2003 |
Yes, actually I think we might have a copy of it at home!! I know I've seen it in the literature rack at the SDA church. I just received my latest copy of Proclamation yesterday and read Jeffrey Helsius's letter to his conference president. I just think he did a super job of outlining some of EGW's outlandish theology. I would like to show it to some SDAs like my husband and ask how they would respond. But they can always seem to come up with some excuse; they think they are in the perfect church | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1142 Registered: 11-2002 |
The book , "What I Like About the Lutherans,..." was written by George Vandeman (I think I'm right about this). I also have that book. In fact, I just recently reread it. I just kept wondering how he could be attending all those different churches and miss the gosple. And, I was wondering as I read that book if the SDA's who read it will then take a que from a SDA leader and check out the other churches for themselves. If I am right about George Vandeman being the author of that book then I would like to add that I knew Mr. Vandeman and he was an exceptionally wonderful and dear man. Impecable. I doubt if there has ever been a nicer person. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 996 Registered: 12-2003 |
That article really bothered me as well. Not only is Johnsson completely ignorant of what other churches teach, he also commented on "fundamentalist groups that denigrate science." That phrase really gets a reaction out of me because I know that he reflects the pervasive but frequently unacknowledged attitude of Adventists toward evangelicals. I remember so well (and with embarrassment) that I also believed evangelicals/fundamentalists were ignorant, anti-intellectual, and essentially wary of higher education. In reality, I've found, nothing could be further from the truth. Adventists think they're academically sophisticated, but their confidence in science and education substitutes for spiritual awareness. Without spiritual knowing, (as 1 Corinthians 2 suggests), all the education available will only yield confusion and gnositc-type arrogance. Yes, Susan, I'm afraid most Adventists more-or-less believe what Johnsson writes. Yes, I believe the average Adventist does think their church has a corner of creation truth. Since they automatically distrust any Christians besides themselves, they don't find it hard to believe that Sunday-keepers are either evolutionists or scientifically ignorant and definitely unsophisticated. As it is, the church is in a real dilemma. In 1993, 43% of SDA teachers of science (at the college level, I believe) believed in a non-literal 6-day creation week and taught their students that possibility. What will the church do now to enforce this "new" affirmation? Colleen | ||
| 33ad Registered user Username: 33ad Post Number: 131 Registered: 10-2004 |
Hi Guys, You really want to se a "Holier Than Thou" SDA Website, check this out! It's a good thing he lives in Bermuda! He really got my blood boiling. http://www.nisbett.com/about.htm Loren | ||
| Dane Registered user Username: Dane Post Number: 77 Registered: 4-2004 |
When I attended Andrews U. in the 70's most of my Biology profs did not hold to a literal 6 day creation week. Dane | ||
| Dd Registered user Username: Dd Post Number: 224 Registered: 7-2004 |
Is anyone going to write a letter to the editor? Would the Review print it? One of you good writers (and there are many of you!) need to do this even if they ignore it. The Review needs to be held accountable. | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 235 Registered: 4-2000 |
Excellent advice, Dd! | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 999 Registered: 12-2003 |
I'd love to see several of you write letters. Dennis, Dd, Dane, Ric, etc...? It surely would be interesting to see what Johnsson would do...! Colleen | ||
| Madelia Registered user Username: Madelia Post Number: 97 Registered: 2-2003 |
I agree also Dd. Obviously Johnsson hasn't read "The Case for a Creator" by Lee Strobel. I checked it out from the library and have gotten into the first couple of chapters. | ||
| Magpie Registered user Username: Magpie Post Number: 11 Registered: 7-2004 |
Hi there, I trust you all had a great turkey day!! I haven't been here for awhile but I need help. I want to find a site WRITTEN by SDA about the 490 weeks of years. You know, with the conclusion that the 490 years were finished about 3 1/2 years after the death buriel and resurection of Jesus. Possibly when Stephen was stoned to death. | ||
| 33ad Registered user Username: 33ad Post Number: 136 Registered: 10-2004 |
Hi, I think what you're looking for is near the end of this article. http://biblicalresearch.gc.adventist.org/documents/sanct&itscleansing.htm God bless Loren | ||
| Magpie Registered user Username: Magpie Post Number: 12 Registered: 7-2004 |
Thats exactly what I was looking for. Thanks so much 33ad Peace, Magpie |
