| Author | Message | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 236 Registered: 4-2000 |
In a recent address to the 250 delegates of the North American Division of Seventh-day Adventists Annual Meeting, Craig Newborn (Religion Professor at Oakwood College and Director the EGW Oakwood Branch Office) stated: "The Adventist Church is at A MOMENT OF CRISIS that is intimately connected to the disengagement of a growing number of church members from the writings and ministry of Ellen White. Her contributions are so much a part of the fiber of this denomination that disengagement from her writings by current Adventists bodes ill for the future of this church." Wow! It is amazing that this quote appeared in a recent Adventist Review. In another article in the Online Edition of the Adventist Review, Bill Knott interviewed the President of the Norwegian SDA Conference. Here are some excerpts from the interview with Pastor Tor Tjeransen: "Probably the greatest challenge to the church in Norway is the lack of enthusiasm for our own message among some of our members. I think we've come to the stage where many Adventists will say, 'It's very nice to be an Adventist, but maybe not so nice that I want to ask my neighbor to be one as well.'...if we don't provide good-quality activities for our young people, we won't even be able to maintain our current membership numbers. But the brutal fact is that the numbers are dwindling every year. Since 1992, maybe even before that, we have lost 50 members a year on average in the Norwegian Union. We had a peak at about 5,500: now we are at just over 4,800. And that just spells danger...There is always this haunting thought in the back of your head, that the membership curve may suddenly plunge because fo the aging of Adventists in this country. And when that happens, we will be in for some very tough decisions, because the church's ability to fund its mission through tithe income will surely be affected. My colleague, who is the president in Sweden, tells me how within 10 years they lost 30 percent of their membership, 50 percent of their income." The above, recent Adventist Review excerpts reveal a frightening handwriting on the wall for the SDA hierarchy. Only eight percent of all SDAs in the world live in America. Their growth clearly is in third world countries where people have very limited access to information and are often illiterate. Obviously, these precious souls are much easier for Adventists to deceive. Dennis J. Fischer | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 997 Registered: 12-2003 |
What interesting statistics. The culture in Africa, I've read recenlty, also leads people to embrace groups such as Adventism and Mormonism, etc. Because they receive charitable services from these cults (in forms of humanitarian aid such as ADRA's services, etc.), the people are then obligated to consider seriously what their benefactors are "selling" (doctrines and a belief system in this case) and to embrace it as part of their thanks to the benefactors. Thus they are deceived into becoming Adventists, Mormons, etc. not only by the lack of accessible information but also by the culture itself. I think we're going to see some great changes, even though we can't see precisely what they will look like yet. Colleen | ||
| Loneviking Registered user Username: Loneviking Post Number: 284 Registered: 7-2000 |
I would bet that hardcore, committed SDA's are a very small number in the third world. I was watching a Maranatha video where the president of one of the conferences in South America said that the people were responding to the money that had poured in for building churches and schools. The money, not the message, was making the difference. I see a big crisis coming to the SDA church. A good friend of mine is a pastor of a local SDA church. He's asked me several times 'how do I get people to participate?'. 'Why can't I get my members to help work around the church?'. He never likes the answers I give........... | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1144 Registered: 11-2002 |
Wow, those are interestig articles from the Oakwood College conference and also from the Review. I will go finish the latest Review yet this evening. I had only gotten to page six when I came across the article I mentioned below this one about the conference on creation when I had to stop reading and get control of my druthers. As far as Norway goes, well, church attendence is way down over there even in the Lutheran church. And, for the past five hundred years or so the Lutherans more-or-less had a handle on church attendence over there and now the Lutherans aren't even showing up at church. So, I think it's maybe a cultural thing over there. As far as the poverty stricken nations go-from what I've been able to figure out a lot of the people when they become SDA therr standard of living increases, their children get an education and their general lives are much better. They also get to learn how to fix food without animal meat which in many of those countries is very expensive. Also, the SDA church often will provide these converts with medical care. Seems to me the only thing thse SDA converts aren't getting is a personal relationship with Jesus and being blessed by the power of the Holy Spirit. That is quite some information! | ||
| Sabra Registered user Username: Sabra Post Number: 274 Registered: 10-2001 |
Keep praying! | ||
| Sabra Registered user Username: Sabra Post Number: 275 Registered: 10-2001 |
Has anyone heard of a former Muslim preacher by the last name of Canter? I have heard his testimony and it is awesome. My mother called last night, after us not speaking for several weeks and she was telling me how my aunt had brought a video from the First Baptist Church with this man's testimony and she seemed very impressed by his story. I said that I had seen him preach on TV and knew of him and we discussed it some. As I was praying for the Adventist tonight, the scripture, "......and they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and the word of their testimony" came to me. So many people have e-mailed me and almost all have said that it was my testimony that touched them. Through all we have been through, God has promised to use it to His glory and for good. I praise Him and thank Him that I have a testimony to fight against the enemy. Our stories are reaching Adventists around the world, literally. God is good. Bless His Holy Name. | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 238 Registered: 4-2000 |
Susan, I wholeheartedly agree with your sentence, "Seems to me the only thing these SDA converts aren't getting is a relationship with Jesus and being blessed by the Holy Spirit." Sad, but so very true! Dennis J. Fischer | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 239 Registered: 4-2000 |
The report I posted from the SDA Norwegian Conference reminds me alot of the Dakota Conference and others here in America. In western North Dakota, it is not unusual for some SDA churches to not even fire up the furnace for Sabbath School or Worship Service on winter days due to low attendance. Apparently, it is not worth the expense and bother, so they just meet in a home instead--although not always. As someone paraphrased, "Many are called, but a few are frozen." Dennis J. Fischer | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 783 Registered: 3-2004 |
Dennis, I really enjoy your use of words and your sense of humor. "Many are called, but a few are frozen." Like I said else where, It is good to laught at things in our lives and in our past to maintain our sanity. Thank God I have Jesus and I really do not worry about being "frozen". God is awesome. Diana | ||
| Pradez2 Registered user Username: Pradez2 Post Number: 2 Registered: 12-2003 |
I come from one the Spanish-speaking islands of the Caribbean. And I could see, even then, that my family's standard of living was better than the common folk. However, the problem in Sweden is happening in my island because the youth can see through the hipocrisy--though they feel awful guilty about not keeping the sabbath. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1014 Registered: 12-2003 |
Welcome, Pradez! We're glad to have you here, and we look forward to hearing more of your story! Colleen | ||
| Pradez2 Registered user Username: Pradez2 Post Number: 3 Registered: 12-2003 |
Colleen, it's going to take a while... I have come to recognize have resentful I feel toward my sda upbringing. I have read tons, Rea, Ford, Numbers, Ratzlaff, you and this forum for 4 years. But in time, I will let it out... | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1161 Registered: 11-2002 |
Pradez, Welcome and I hope you find this forum a good outlet for your frstrations regardig Adventism. It is also a great place to come with prayer concerns and occassional humor. Be well, my friend. | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 244 Registered: 4-2000 |
Pradez, A hearty FAF welcome! You have come to the right place to find healing and fellowship. Spiritual abuse is very real in SDAland. However, Jesus will redeem your past and make you into everything that heaven intended for you. God has great plans for your life. We fully understand and feel your heartache. Take it to the Cross and leave it there! Dennis Fischer | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 785 Registered: 3-2004 |
Pradez, Welcome to FAF, a good place to fellowship and vent and make friends and heal and get to know our Saviour, Jesus Christ. You are in the right place when you come here. Tell us more of yourself as you are able. You will find a lot of us have gone through what you are going through at this very time. As Dennis said, take everything to the cross and leave it all there. God is awesome. Diana | ||
| Pw Registered user Username: Pw Post Number: 202 Registered: 6-2004 |
I only was exposed to the SDA for about a year and a half during my mid-20's. However I can only imagine how people must really resent the SDA church if they were raised that way. I recall that the kids in the church looked really miserable. I'm sure their home life was awful when you had all these EGW rules to follow on top of the peer pressure they encountered from those outside the church. No wonder they break away from it all...if only their parents were as wise. | ||
| Tracey Registered user Username: Tracey Post Number: 90 Registered: 9-2004 |
This is very interesting b/c I have found that very few of the young people, including from C's own mouth, that they just don't really bother to learn or know about EGW.. Could I hope that the young people's disinterest will eventually affect the SDA body economically and ultimately cause it to fold?? I hesitate to think how God would work in this cultish body, but I am hoping more and more are disinterested. Even at C's church, it's sooo dead. It's horrible to see really. Mostly the old people are there, no young people, they have left or moved away. No life there (not that I am saying there ever was) But it's this huge "church" with literally a handful of older people there. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1026 Registered: 12-2003 |
Tracey, I've pondered that same question. I don't think disinterest in EGW, though, will crumble the church unless people first discover the true gospel and experience the love of Jesus. Then they have to learn enough to call EGW a false prophet. Merely being disinterested in her does not equal renouncing her. In fact, this phenomenon is one of the indications of the spiritual claim on the church. I was disinterested in EGW for at least ten years before I was able to call her a false prophet. I had dismissed her as a source of authority in my own mind and never referred to her. Yet calling her a false prophet was literally electrifying for me. It brought me face-to-face with the true nature of the hold of Adventism on me. It's not just cultural; it's spiritual. Calling Ellen a false prophet is a necessary step in renouncing the spirit of deception. Merely dismissing her leaves her quietly in the background, unexamined, where her spirit of deception continues to hold one's mind and heart in bondage to unbiblical doctrines. An imperfect metaphorical example: if you have the AIDS virus and do not know it, you will eventually die of it. Being disinterested will not release you from it's claim on you. Today, however, proper diagnosis and treatment can erxtend one's life tremendously. The analogy is imperfect because one cannot actually cure AIDS. But one CAN renounce the spirit of deception that drove EGW and claims Adventism, and the Holy Spirit can make your heart new in the place where Adventism reigned. Today's young Adventists who don't know much about Ellen are as bound by Adventism as were their historic Adventist forebears. It's only when one turns to Christ that the veil is removed. It's not removed when one dismisses Ellen. Turning to Christ will ultimately drive one to know the truth, and you have to look straight at EGW to know the truth about her. Praise God that He is calling people to truth and to Himself! Colleen | ||
| Dd Registered user Username: Dd Post Number: 235 Registered: 7-2004 |
My college friend (a "liberal" SDA) tells me that his kids don't even know about EGW - probably don't even know her by name - but he and his wife remain firmly committed to the church despite calling themselves, "devote Des Ford SDA's". | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 151 Registered: 10-2004 |
Did you know that Desmond Ford is still an SDA? So is Walter Rea, I found out recently from Dirk's site! Colleen, I agree with you completely about calling EGW a false prophet being necessary to completely getting out of the hold of Adventism and EGW. Jeremy |
