| Author | Message | ||
| Esther Registered user Username: Esther Post Number: 92 Registered: 5-2004 |
There's a discussion on the Christianity forum where someone brought up Jeremiah 33: 14-26. The point being that the Levitical Priests will be reinstituted...and if so, then the law would be in effect. I'm really struggling with figuring this one out...how this prophecy fits? I was ready to dismiss it as all those that were if/then, but God promises by the day and night that will not change. If any of you have any insight...I could really use some help here.  | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1043 Registered: 12-2003 |
Esther, many Christians believe the LEvitical priesthood and the sacrifices, etc. will be reinstituted in Jerusalem for the Jews before Jesus establishes His millennial kingdom. My understanding of this passage is that God was promising Israel that they would never be without the ministry of a priesthood mediating between them and God. In Numbers 25:13 God made a covenant with Phinehas, the grandson of Aaron, promising him a lasting priesthood. This covenant, just like his covenant with David that assured him that a descendent of his would always be on the throne, was a covenant not only involving the family but was a promise that the entire nation would never be without the ministry of a God-ordained priesthood. It was through the priestly ministry that Israel could have communion with God. Both the Levitical priesthood and the Davidic kingship, however, are now being fulfilled by Jesus. (see Psalm 110:4; Hbrews 5:6-10; 6:19-20; 7:11-25) In Jeremiah 33:22 where it says the descendants of David and of Levi "who minister before me" will be "as countless as the stars of the sky and as measureless as the sand on the seashore", God is using language that echoes his covenant language He used with Abraham (Genesis 22:17), Isaac (Genesis 26:4), and Jacob (Genesis 32:12). God is promising Israel that the royal and priestly heritage He promised His people will never end. The promise of the flourishing of the royal and priestly families is likely foreshadowing the great multitude who will reign with Christ (see Romans 5:17; 8:17; 1 Corinthians 6:3; 2 Timothy 2:12; Revelation 3:21; 5:10; 20:5-6; 22:5) and who are consecrated in Christ to be priests (see 1 Peter 2:5,9;Revelation 1:6; 5:10; 20:6;Isaiah 66:20-21). (Texts thanks to NIV Study Bible) In other words, prophetic promises use language that the original receivers would understand. The promise of God's never leaving them without a ruler appointed by Him and without a priestly ministry to keep them in communion with Him would have been clear to them. The New Testament, though, expands and explains the Old Testament shaodws and symbols in much more specific ways. Just as the Gentiles being one with the Jews as God's children was a mystery hidden from Israel, just as the mystery of Christ in us was hidden from Israel, so the filfillment of the promises of the Davidic king and the Levitical priest was hidden from Israel. In general, Israel knw God was sending a redeemer, but they did not understand that this redeemer would literally be God. The reality is much greater and more comprehensive than were the promise or the shadows. The new covenant fulfillment of these Jeremiah propehcies is also much greater and more more comprehensive than are the words of the original prophecy. The Israelites couldn't conceive of any priesthood acceptable to God besides the Levitical priesthood because the revelation of Jesus had not yet occurred. Once He came, once His identity as God was known, it became clear that a preisthood that surpassed the Levitical priesthood had been established. Just as the Sabbath was a shadow of rest in Jesus, so the levitical priesthood was a shadow of Jesus' Melchizedek priesthood and of the fact that all who are one with Him would also be priests. At least this is how I understand this passage! Colleen | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 69 Registered: 7-2004 |
Dear Colleen, God has truly given you a ministry here with us. Thank you for a clear and concise explanation of the Jeremiah prophecy. Belva | ||
| Esther Registered user Username: Esther Post Number: 94 Registered: 5-2004 |
Colleen, Thank you for such a great thought on the subject. I'm going to study it a bit more I think, but what you said really makes sense. I second what Belvalew said about your ministry to us. You are such a blessing! | ||
| Dane Registered user Username: Dane Post Number: 80 Registered: 4-2004 |
Thank's Colleen, I think it's important for us as Christians to never forget that the entire Old Testament is fulfilled in Jesus. Dane | ||
| Speakeasy Registered user Username: Speakeasy Post Number: 201 Registered: 9-2002 |
I know that the Jewish rabbi's in Israel and also in the rabbinical schools of leaning are moving forword in the wantng to bring back the Levitical sacrifice system. Just the other day in my Hebrew class we saw a video of a breeding program that is going on today in Israel of getting the first true red calf in the history of our time. Also the video showed how they are allready have a heards of unblemished rams and sheep. And are now breeding doves as well. The person on the tape also takled that they allready have the veil and the instriments and clothing ready to go. All they need is the red calf and the temple will be put together. I got from seeing this it is not will it happen it was just a matter of time when it will happen. I have heard through other sources that even parts of the inner temple have allready been constructed. The orthidox Jew really wants this system to come back. But as Colleen said the fullfilment of this practice is Jesus Christ. But I wonder when this practice does come back will we see it being practiced or will we be gone or what. speakeasy | ||
| Goldenbear Registered user Username: Goldenbear Post Number: 1 Registered: 12-2004 |
I can't imagine how the animal rights people would react to having a sacrificial system. While they may not be as prevalent in Israel as they are in America, they would no doubt be heard. | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 438 Registered: 1-2003 |
I am sorry, it fills me with intense anger that they (the Jews) are planning to start sacrificing again. There is a reason the Jews cannot get to the temple...God put an end to their sacrifices, their new moons and their Sabbaths because it was an abomination to Him. (at least that is what the bible says would happen, and it did only a few years after the cross!!) | ||
| Hiddenmanna Registered user Username: Hiddenmanna Post Number: 1 Registered: 12-2004 |
I personal do not believe that the Jews will ever see a temple re-built and sacfrices begin. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1052 Registered: 12-2003 |
Welcome, Goldenbear and Hiddenmanna. We'd love to hear some of your stories and hear more of our comments. We're glad you're here! Colleen | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 622 Registered: 7-2003 |
I know that some believe the Jews have to get it going again as part of end-time prophecy stuff. I have also heard from another source as speakeasy had said above. He said they thought they had the red hefer a few years ago, but found one white hair (in the tail as I recall)...so they do seem to be trying to get there. The fact it is fulfilled in Christ is something Christians believe, but not Jews. It seems only natural that they would want to reinstate part of their heritage's rituals. It will certainly be interesting to see how a modern society responds to such a religious tradition. I had never thought about what you said, Pheeki...that God is intentionally keeping them away from the temple mount. It is fascinating to recognize the hand of God moving in our world ... and maybe all of this is as God knew it would be as well. Maybe the end really will be in our time??? Very exciting, I must admit. | ||
| Sabra Registered user Username: Sabra Post Number: 292 Registered: 10-2001 |
The problem with understanding all of this with an SDA mindset is the fallacy that Israel and the Church are one in the same. This is not the case. This is what I understand so far from my studies. Not being dogmatic here, but I believe that Israel is the nation of God, set apart forever. If they are converted to Christianity they become part of the Church as there is no Jew or Greek in Christ, but apart from Christ, they are not the same. The Millenial reign will be to bring the nation of Israel their Messiah, Who will rule and reign with His saints (the church) for 1000 years. Is 66 describes this time as a time of peace but still in a fallible world. People are described as dying and giving birth...life goes on. People will still have to choose to accept Jesus but everyone will know of Him and there will apparently be feasts celebrated and He will be ruling from Jerusalem. In Christ we have eternal life. There is no other way. We are of the kingdom of heaven, we will be citizens of heaven, assigned to cities and people according to our rewards. When this time is completed, the new Jerusalem will descend and we will be one in Christ, the wicked will be cast into hell with Satan and the fallen angels. Currently the Jews have all of the furniture in place for the new temple and are planning to resume their sacrifices. They believe that this is their command from God and that they are in error for not having it now. The anti-christ will set himself in the temple as God and deceive many. So there has to be a temple. Well, that's what I understand about it for now. | ||
| Speakeasy Registered user Username: Speakeasy Post Number: 202 Registered: 9-2002 |
Pheeki we know the bible says that the Sacrifices are done away with. I am not a bible prophesy person but I will find it somewere in the bible it does emply that the Sacrifices will be going on during the latter half of the tribulation. I also know of sacrifices going on today I maybe spelling this wrong and I probably am. But a staunch sect of the Jewish beliefe called "Levitaucher" Le-vit-a-chr (chr like the sound of sure but with a ch on the front of ure) sacrifices doves today and it happens even were I live. Also a group of people that just came back from Israel was one day short of seeing 2 people stoned for breaking the Shabbat. I heard they drove there car to early on Saturday. I don't know if they were stoned to death. But I wonder if the average going Seventh Day Adventist would carry out the punishment of breaking the biblical Shabbat of the Seventh Day and Sabra you hit the nail on the head in your last paragraph. speakeasy | ||
| Sabra Registered user Username: Sabra Post Number: 295 Registered: 10-2001 |
THis is a very interesting site: http://www.templemount.org/ezektmp.html Some of the info includes the following: In that day the branch of the LORD shall be beautiful and glorious, and the fruit of the land shall be the pride and glory of the survivors of Israel. And he who is left in Zion and remains in Jerusalem will be called holy, every one who has been recorded for life in Jerusalem, when the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion and cleansed the bloodstains of Jerusalem from its midst by a spirit of judgment and by a spirit of burning. Then the LORD will create over the whole site of Mount Zion and over her assemblies a cloud by day, and smoke and the shining of a flaming fire by night; for over all the glory there will be a canopy and a pavilion. It will be for a shade by day from the heat, and for a refuge and a shelter from the storm and rain. (Isaiah 4:2-6) "Take from them (the returning exiles from Babylon) silver and gold, and make a crown, and set it upon the head of (Yeshua) Joshua, the son of Jehozadak, the high priest, and say to him, 'Thus says the Lord of hosts, "Behold, the man whose name is the Branch: for he shall grow up in his place, and he shall build the temple of the Lord. It is he who shall build the temple of the Lord, and shall bear royal honor, and shall sit and rule upon his throne. And there shall be a priest by his throne, and peaceful understanding shall be between them both."' (Zechariah 6:13.) Comfort, comfort my people, says your God. Speak tenderly to Jerusalem, and cry to her that her warfare is ended, that her iniquity is pardoned, that she has received from the LORD's hand double for all her sins. A voice cries: "In the wilderness prepare the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God. Every valley shall be lifted up, and every mountain and hill be made low; the uneven ground shall become level, and the rough places a plain. And the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together, for the mouth of the LORD has spoken." (Isaiah 40:1-5, quoted in Luke 3:5) But on that day...says the Lord GOD, my wrath will be roused. For in my jealousy and in my blazing wrath I declare, On that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel; the fish of the sea, and the birds of the air, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep on the ground, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall quake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the cliffs shall fall, and every wall shall tumble to the ground. (Ezekiel 38:18-22) The seventh angel poured his bowl into the air, and a loud voice came out of the temple, from the throne, saying, "It is done!" And there were flashes of lightning, voices, peals of thunder, and a great earthquake such as had never been since men were on the earth, so great was that earthquake. The great city [Jerusalem] was split into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell, and God remembered great Babylon, to make her drain the cup of the fury of his wrath. And every island fled away, and no mountains were to be found; and great hailstones, heavy as a hundred-weight, dropped on men from heaven, till men cursed God for the plague of the hail, so fearful was that plague. (Revelation 16:17-21) For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city shall be taken and the houses plundered and the women ravished; half of the city shall go into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be cut off from the city. Then the LORD will go forth and fight against those nations as when he fights on a day of battle. On that day his feet shall stand on the Mount of Olives which lies before Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount of Olives shall be split in two from east to west by a very wide valley; so that one half of the Mount shall withdraw northward, and the other half southward. And the valley of my mountains shall be stopped up, for the valley of the mountains shall touch the side of it; and you shall flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD your God will come, and all the holy ones with him. On that day there shall be neither cold nor frost. And there shall be continuous day (it is known to the LORD), not day and not night, for at evening time there shall be light. On that day living waters shall flow out from Jerusalem, half of them to the eastern sea and half of them to the western sea; it shall continue in summer as in winter. And the LORD will become king over all the earth; on that day the LORD will be one and his name one. The whole land shall be turned into a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem. But Jerusalem shall remain aloft upon its site from the Gate of Benjamin to the place of the former gate, to the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Hananel to the king's wine presses. (Zechariah 14:2-10) The prophet Ezekiel (Ezekiel 40-48) describes in great detail a temple in Israel that is much too large to fit on the present Temple Mount site. The Temple of Ezekiel proper measures about 875 feet square, and it sits in the middle of a large consecrated area (See inset in diagram below). Ezekiel's temple is also very different in many details from any previous temples that have existed in Israel (or elsewhere). Therefore most Bible scholars believe there will one day exist in the Holy Land a Fourth or "Millennial" Temple. Ezekiel also describes the reapportionment of the land in specific lots during the millennial kingdom. The temple and the temple district are not part of the rebuilt city of Jerusalem according to the details of this reapportionment. Note that the Temple area will be located to the North of rebuilt Jerusalem: "When you allot the land as a possession, you shall set apart for the Lord a portion of the land as a holy district, twenty-five thousand cubits long and twenty thousand cubits broad; it shall be holy throughout its whole extent. Of this a square plot of five hundred by five hundred cubits shall be for the sanctuary, with fifty cubits for an open space around it. And in the holy district you shall measure off a section twenty-five thousand cubits long and ten thousand broad, in which shall be the sanctuary, the most holy place. It shall be the holy portion of the land; it shall be for the priests, who minister in the sanctuary and approach the Lord to minister to him; and it shall be a place for their houses and a holy place for the sanctuary. Another section, twenty-five thousand cubits long and ten thousand cubits broad, shall be for the Levites who minister at the temple, as their possession for cities to live in." "Alongside the portion set apart as the holy district you shall assign for the possession of the city an area five thousand cubits broad, and twenty-five thousand cubits long it shall belong to the whole house of Israel." "And to the prince shall belong the land on both sides of the holy district and the property of the city, on the west and on the east, corresponding in length to one of the tribal portions, and extending from the western to the eastern boundary of the land. It is to be his property in Israel. And my princes shall no more oppress my people; but they shall let the house of Israel have the land according to their tribes." (Ezekiel 45:1-8.) "Adjoining the territory of Judah, from the east side to the west, shall be the portion which you shall set apart, twenty-five thousand cubits in breadth, and in length equal to one of the tribal portions, from the east side to the west, with the sanctuary in the midst of it. The portion which you shall set apart for the Lord shall be twenty-five thousand cubits in length, and twenty thousand in breadth." (Ezekiel 48) Features Unique to Ezekiel's Temple No wall of partition to exclude Gentiles (compare Ephesians 2:14) The Gentiles were previously welcome in the Outer Courts, but excluded from the inner courts on pain of death. No Court of Women (compare Galatians 3:28 (Outer Court and Inner Court only) No Laver (see Ezekiel 36:24-27, John 15:3) No Table of Shewbread (see Micah 5:4, John 6:35) No Lampstand or Menorah (see Isaiah 49:6, John 8:12) No Golden Altar of Incense (Zechariah 8:20-23, John 14:6) No Veil (Isaiah 25:6-8, Matthew 27:51) No Ark of the Covenant (Jeremiah 3:16, John 10:30-33) Major Changes to the Altar: The sacrificial Altar will be approached by a ramp from the East. Previous altars were all approached from the South. Now there will be stairs to the altar, not a ramp as previously. The top of the altar is now described by the Hebrew word "ariel" [Isaiah 29:1] meaning "hearth of God" or "lion of God." [Rev. 5:5] | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 119 Registered: 7-2004 |
I have a question. Originally in the Old Testament when people sacrificed God would send fire down from heaven to burn it up. The story of Elijah is very clear that the fire came from heaven. Was that always the case with the sacrifices, like even during Jesus' time on earth? What about when sacrifices are done now? If fire doesn't come down from heaven to accept it, what will the Jewish people think of that? I don't see how God would send fire down to accept it when the sacrificial system has clearly been fulfilled in Jesus and is no longer valid. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 813 Registered: 3-2004 |
Raven, That is a very good question?? Diana | ||
| Speakeasy Registered user Username: Speakeasy Post Number: 205 Registered: 9-2002 |
I read a book on rabbinical history about 10 years ago. In it the book said that as far as we know that aproximatly 1 million sacrfices a year were presented before the temple was takin away. If this is true that this many sacrifices a year was going on. God would have had to make fire come down from Heaven 1 Million times a year. But I do wonder what the implication fire from Heaven was? Is there any verses about this? speakeasy | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 74 Registered: 7-2004 |
There is no reference to the fact that fire came down from heaven for every sacrifice. The sacrifice of Elijah was a special instance where Elijah was showing the entire nation of Isreal that their God, Yaweh, was the only all powerful God, and so he set up the contest between the priests of Baal and himself. God recognized that contest as a statement of Elijah's faith and responded with fire from heaven. As far as the evening and morning sacrifices, there was a fire on the altar at all times and the sacrifices were placed there and were thus consumed by the fire that already was kindled there. Belva |
