| Author | Message | ||
| Pw Registered user Username: Pw Post Number: 222 Registered: 6-2004 |
I thought I recognized loneviking from somewhere else. :-) | ||
| Tracey Registered user Username: Tracey Post Number: 107 Registered: 9-2004 |
What is going to be the 28th fundamental belief, Susan? | ||
| Loneviking Registered user Username: Loneviking Post Number: 293 Registered: 7-2000 |
PW---yep, that's me! | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 810 Registered: 3-2004 |
We all need a safe place to praise God for delivering us from Adventism, to vent because of the anger/frustration/sadness or whatever other feelings we have about the church we left. This is a good place to do that. When an SDA reads this forum and sees that, it will probably have an adverse affect on them, but it is explained when one signs up to write on here that this is for former SDAs,SDAs seeking to know what God really wants from us and for those connected to Adventism is some way. So whoever reads/writes on here knows what to expect. Now this does not mean that I am going to bash SDAs just because I am not one any longer. None of us do that. We joke about various SDA ministries, Batchelor/Botchler, for one. I can see where a died in the wool SDA would be offended, but I cannot control how they feel when they read what we write. We NEED TO VENT, GET ANGRY AND DO WHAT EVER WE NEED TO DO TO LEAVE ADVENTISM BEHIND and if the lurker is an SDA, maybe he/she will learn something from us. We NEED TO PROGRESS IN OUR RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD AND LEAVING ADVENTISM AND EGW BEHIND AND ACCEPTING JESUS AND ONLY THE BIBLE IS HOW WE DO IT. I will continue to vent and joke and most of all praise God for delivering me from Adventism. I will be careful with my sarcasm because I can be mean, but I will also ask God to give me the words to say when I write on here. We are safe here. God has provided this web site for us and for that I am every thankful. It is here I am learning how awesome God is as He changes peoples hearts and brings them to Him. Diana | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1198 Registered: 11-2002 |
The Review recently mentioned the 28th fundamental, which the SDA church expects to officially adopt next year at its world convention. Apparently since the SDA denomination is gaining so much membership growth in countries where spititism is a common practice this 28th fundamental will declair Jesus and Jesus only as a means to salvation and will denounce all spiritism practices. You all out there, did I get it right? | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1056 Registered: 12-2003 |
I understood that the 28th will include statements on spiritual growth (listing regular Bible reading, prayer, worship as essentials for growing in the Spirit). It will aslo state the authorized way to deal with spirits in the mission field--prayer, etc. I don't remember all the details the proposed statement contained, but the idea was that SDA missionaries aren't equipped in a uniform way to deal with the spirits they encounter in the mission field. Hence, they decided they needed to have an official statement and "formula" for people to refer to. I know that when I read the proposed fundamental, I was struck that there has never been an effort to well-equip SDA missionaries for spiritual warfare before going to the mission field. But then, I guess that shouldn't surprise me; the whole idea of Satan and evil is uncomfortable for most Adventists. Colleen | ||
| Mrcato Registered user Username: Mrcato Post Number: 12 Registered: 12-2003 |
wow I'm gettin a quick out of reading the 're: Seventh Day Adventist' postings on Christianity.com...you can really discern a weird spirit when you read the postings by the Adventists...that was just so profound to me I had to post!! lol | ||
| Tdf Registered user Username: Tdf Post Number: 15 Registered: 11-2004 |
Flying Lady, although I was once a died in the wool Adventist, I'm far from being one now. My wife and I attend a Methodist church. Even so, I do think that you can vent your negative feelings without making comments that resemble cheap shots. I have been doing so and so have others who have been posting about their frustrations, concerns and observations on this site. PW, keep on exposing the false teachings of the SDA church and I'll be right there with you!! Someday we should compare notes about the amazing things that God is doing in our lives as He reveals His character through us by making the doctrine of His grace even more clear to us. Somehow my compassion for individual pew warmers in the SDA church has been confused with actual allegiance to some of the beliefs of the SDA church. I can assure you that, at least in my case, the two are not synonamous. tdf | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 624 Registered: 7-2003 |
tdf, I admire your ability to see individuals within adventism. Maybe it's your experiences and exposure that has helped you separate the two. For me, I tend to see them as a uniform threat ... to my son directly, which will impact me and the rest of my family ultimately. If they could have their way, my son would never go to church with me, and be lead to believe a whole bunch of false things about me, my family and our friends that is patently false. I've heard it from his father for years, and no matter how many times I try to correct his false beliefs about "us", he still proclaims I don't know what I believe or what those around me believe, he does. And that doesn't even begin to touch on the errors within the religion itself. Therefore, it is very difficult to feel the warmth that you have for "them". (much as I sense it is difficult for them to have "warmth" for me) I can see it in others, and acknowledge it, but at this point, I can't share it. I see them as a real beast wanting to take my son away, if they could. Maybe it's similar for others on here too, that the battle still rages within families and their guard is up making them somewhat insensitive if not harsh. The ironic thing is that B has these same feelings towards me and my faith, even though my church never mentions SDAs neither would they try to say it's wrong to go to church on Saturdays since we have services on both Saturdays and Sundays. But his history tells him non-SDAs are under the deception of Satan and that makes me evil, no matter how I appear on the surface. And he is not aware of those feelings on a daily basis, but if you ask him pointed questions, it is apparent that is the glasses he views all non-SDAs. Some day I hope to make peace with it, but I doubt that will be any time soon as long as I perceive "they" are a threat to my son and my family. | ||
| Tdf Registered user Username: Tdf Post Number: 16 Registered: 11-2004 |
Melissa, my heart breaks as I read your story. It's true that my experience has probably been different than yours. However, it's not hard for me to imagine such things happening within the SDA church. It is a denomination based on fear--fear of the judgement, fear of being outside of the remnant, fear of being in error. It seems that some within the SDA church use that fear to keep people from asking questions. It has been a long struggle for me to overcome that fear as I've read scripture with an open mind and come to realize that what I was taught throughout my life was actually dangerous error. It breaks my heart that my parents, my wife's parents and most of our extended family still believes the lie. It breaks my heart because I know that they do not understand the simple truth of salvation by grace alone, through faith alone in Christ alone. You cannot believe in salvation by faith and then say that you must obtain behavioral perfection in order to stand before a holy God at the end of time without a mediator. It also makes me sad to think that the beautiful sacrifice made by Christ on the cross was not enough and that He is now performing some form of peculiar judgment in Heaven. These truths distort and confuse the clear simple truth of Christ's sacrifice on the cross. I know that our families sincerely believe what they have been taught--just as I once sincerely believed it. I've tried many times to talk with them about salvation by faith and every time they say that they believe it's true. But then, somehow, works seem to creep into the equation. I am learning more and more about faith and about how to leave things in God's hands that aren't within my control. I will pray for you and your son as it sounds like an even more volatile scenario than mine. In light of what you're going through, who could blame you for having feelings of hurt and anger? | ||
| Tdf Registered user Username: Tdf Post Number: 17 Registered: 11-2004 |
Sorry, I should have put the word "truths" in qoute marks. I certainly don't believe that the IJ and the doctrine of the close of probation are Biblical truths. | ||
| Pw Registered user Username: Pw Post Number: 223 Registered: 6-2004 |
Tdf, I'm amazed at how things keep streaming along on that post. There's so much more than just the issue with Sabbath vs. Sunday as you can see. I'm amazed at how they are actually quoting passages from EGW books to back up their support only to expose even more errors. Talk about standing on a sinking foundation. However, I can relate to their dedication to their beliefs. I had my mind made up at that time when I was in the SDA, and no one could tell me any different. All I can do is keep challenging them on their doctrines. Who knows, maybe the seed is being planted for them to really examine what they believe. | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1202 Registered: 11-2002 |
Melissa, Your family situtation is heart-breaking, yet within Adventism very common. I hope you know that I am praying for your family. Your commeny about your church having both Saturday and Sunday services is great. As I've mentioned before on here, that just doesn't cut it with SDA's. Irecently was tod by a that attending a Sunday-keeping church on Saturday does not make one a Sabbath-keeper. However, for a abbath-keeper to attend church on Sunday is o.k. because the person s this keeping-Sabbath holy. Go figure, ... | ||
| Pw Registered user Username: Pw Post Number: 224 Registered: 6-2004 |
That is a pretty frustrating topic to dispute with an SDA regarding which day is ok. Somehow I feel that the SDA's involvement in going to a Sunday service makes it ok, but if I decided to go to a Friday night Bible study or a Saturday evening service, that's not good enough for God to accept. I can't imagine what some of you guys are dealing with when it comes to family members. Thankfully my involvement with the SDA was only a personal decison that lasted a year or so. I really feel for those who still deal with the never ending sagas. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 818 Registered: 3-2004 |
Tdf, I understand what you say when you talk about cheap shots against/about SDAs. I did not mean to imply I would write things that are cheap shots against/about SDAs, but I would vent in a way that I can still look at myself in the mirror every morning. I did say I would ask God to guide what I write. I will vent and get angry/sad or whatever, but I do ask God to guide my words. What I think is that no matter what or how we say it and a devote SDA reads it, it will not please that person if it is not according to what they believe and know that we once believed it also. It is a mind set that only God can break. Diana | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 70 Registered: 7-2004 |
I think we should focus ourselves for the special prayers we are involved with every weekend. My own experience of receiving true enlightenment on the IJ issue, and thus opening me up to learning about some of the other special SDA issues, keeps coming back to mind. The person who pointed out that Daniel 8:14 wasn't talking about Jesus and his sacrifice for us, but was talking about an earthly power who interfered with the normal worship cycles for the Jews for a set period of time. I tried to explain it the way I'd always had it explained to me, but realized that I'd have to bring up SDA lore and Sister White, and the person I was talking to wouldn't have understood any of that. Something inside me said that a Biblical truth should be able to explain itself from scripture alone and wouldn't depend on Ellen White to explain it 2500 years later. That sent me home to do some serious studying on my own, and I decided to look for things that were scriptural to be explained scripturally. Luckily for me I received a flyer in the mail that very evening regarding Dale Ratzlaff's book "Sabbath In Crisis." I sent for it, read it over the course of one weekend, and have not looked back to the SDA way of thinking for direction since. Dale used scripture to explain scripture. God has had His hand on Dale's ministry, I believe. I'm saying these things because we all seem so intent to bring our SDA loved ones to a better understanding of Gospel, when God may have ordained for them to learn of the Gospel through someone else. Our only obligation may be to pray. The person I first learned from still doesn't know that she was instrumental in my exit from error. I lost touch with her soon after our discussion about IJ. But that encounter with her has remained like a beacon in my heart and has given me the strength to stand up and proclaim Jesus as my Saviour, both now and forevermore. I tell my SDA family members that I'm proud to say that Jesus has saved me from sin and death, and that he did that before I ever lived. They look at me goggle-eyed, but have yet to be able to shake me off that stance. I also praise God that I never had to go through what some of you have, where you have taken hold of Jesus in the face of father and mother, brothers and sisters. My parents had both passed away before I had my ahah, and I shared what I was learning with my sister as I was learning it. She was hungry for more, and took in the information willingly. I have two brothers who no longer attend church at the SDA's, but are still locked into thinking that the SDA's have the light of truth like no other denomination. They live in confusion and fear still. I share what I can when I am asked to share, and spend the rest of my efforts in prayer. With Diana I will proclaim that Jesus is awesome, and I trust that he will bring them safely home one day. I'm not obligated to change their minds for them, I only need to be willing and able to respond with truth when they come to me seeking truth. Let's remain united in prayer. Belva | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 821 Registered: 3-2004 |
Belva, I agree that it is not up to us to win over our relatives from Adventism. I pray for them and when God opens the opportunity for me to say something I ask for His guidance. So let us pray for all our loved ones Friday at sunddown in our times zones and Saturday afternoon at 1 PM Pacific time, 4 PM East Coast time and what ever the corresponding times are around the world. I was reminded, as I read my Bible this morning that where 2 or 3 are together, God is in the midst of them. Well, we are not physically together, but spiritually we are and I know God is in the midst of us. We are praying because we love Jesus and want our loved ones, friends and deluded church members to know God as a friend and saviour. I personally want them to know what an awesome God He is. Diana | ||
| Pw Registered user Username: Pw Post Number: 225 Registered: 6-2004 |
Belvalew...Here's an interesting post on the site where the SDA topics are being debated about the IJ. One die-hard SDA says that it is no longer a valid topic and not taught anymore while another SDA says her church has a new revelation about it and the congregation was basically eating it up. Amazing that they can't even agree among themselves about their own doctrine. | ||
| Tracey Registered user Username: Tracey Post Number: 110 Registered: 9-2004 |
I'm for praying .. count me in tonight! Tracey | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1060 Registered: 12-2003 |
I have a friend (former SDA) who teaches at an Adventist university. Just today she was also telling me about a situation similar to the one you bring up, Pw. Apparently some of her students are being given extra credit in one of their classes for attending the ADventist evangelistic meetings being held in town. This particular evangelist (Ron Halvorsen) stated in his meeting that the pope is NOT the anti-Christ. At the same time, many Adventists believe he is. My friend was discussing the fact that their seems to be a fairly concerted internal effort to move away from some of the more embarrassing doctrines. The question, of course, is, "What does this mean?" Is the church changing? Is it cleaning up its act and becoming mainstream evangelical? My friend summed it up perfectly. "What these changes mean," she said, "is that their message is not from God." How simple and perfect, I thought. If a church believes the truth from God, continual changes are not only not necessary, they would be considered heretical. The fluid nature of Adventist public teaching is an evidence that their message is not from God. Wow. Well said. Colleen |
