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Tracey
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Username: Tracey

Post Number: 78
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2004 - 2:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, Melissa, you are proving to be correct as these months have passed. sad to admit.

: (

this weekend is the weekend. I decided not to wait to the end of the year.. Will keep you posted.

Tracey
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 977
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2004 - 5:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Praying for you, Tracey--
Colleen
Flyinglady
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Username: Flyinglady

Post Number: 760
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2004 - 8:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tracey,
I am praying for you and your boyfriend. God will be with both of you. He wants the best for you and will help you do what is good for you. God bless you my friend. Just remember how awesome God is and how He has led you. He did not bring you this far to drop you.
Love and care for you.
Diana
Tracey
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Username: Tracey

Post Number: 80
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Friday, November 19, 2004 - 1:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh my gosh! I just told C that same thing Lady!!! I told him that I understand all that you know is SDA and your identity is wrapped in it but that if he left, Jesus wouldn't let him fall, that He just wouldn't do that to him. He said nodded and said okay and that he loves me with his whole heart. Out of the mouths of 2 or 3 witnesses does he establish his word.

Thank and Love you more! : )


Colleen, Thank you.

HRob, has been a help in just one phone call! He really has some insight about how to handle C. It has worked for his fiancee and God Bless them both.

thank you all!
Tracey
Vchowdhury1
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Username: Vchowdhury1

Post Number: 84
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Friday, November 19, 2004 - 3:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Please correct me if I'm wrong. But after months of studying the New Testement, I think I finally understand what the New Covenant is trying to project. For Example, if I have a friend that I love very much (Just like Jesus is our loving friend and savior)I don't need a set of rules and laws to tell me how to treat or how to love this person. And because I sincerely love and trust this person, my actions will come naturally because I have such love for this person in my heart. I know it sounds very simplistic, but I guess that narrows it down. And I don't think salvation is as complicated as most legalistic religions, such as sda's, make it sound. SDA's make salvation sound so difficult!! My Bible says that all I have to do is believe in the Lord Jesus Christ with all my soul, heart and mind, and I will be saved. Its actually as simple as that. God Bless :-)

--Valerie
Flyinglady
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Username: Flyinglady

Post Number: 763
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Friday, November 19, 2004 - 7:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Valerie,
When I read in the NT what God wants from us was our love I was astonished. To love him with all our heart, all our soul and all our mind and to love our neighbors as our self I was blown away. The Gospel is so simple. Anyone can understand it.
Tracey, I continue to pray for you and your boyfriend. God loves both of you, but He does things in His time and not ours. He is not going to drop either of you.
He is just too awesome.
Diana
Thomas1
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Username: Thomas1

Post Number: 150
Registered: 4-2002
Posted on Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 2:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Valarie,

I'll go you one better than that; when you become one with Jesus, the Holy Spirit comes into your life and HE provides the love that we show to Jesus and each other. It's the first of the 'fruits" which Paul lists in Galatians 5. This is why Jesus said we would have Joy and that it would be to the full!

What is your "job", you ask? Keep your eyes on Jesus and go along for the most fantastic ride of your life. It's said by our legalistic friends that the Christian walk is hard and you must be constantly on guard against falling. But if the way to heaven is a hard and long climb, guess what? Jesus has provided a chair lift that takes us so high above the vista that we can see the beauty and grandeur of it all, constantly keeping our eyes on the mountaintop, the goal. That's Jesus. The chairlift is called JOY!

Hang on to HIM, and never let anyone take your eyes away from HIM, even for something that looks like the "right" thing to do!

In HIS Grip, always!
<><
Thomas
Flyinglady
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Username: Flyinglady

Post Number: 767
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 4:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thomas,
I like the way you described the ride of a Christian. When God had me move to NV, provided a job and performed miralces to get me here, my friends would listen to me with their mouths hanging open as I said, "when God is the driver, I just go along for the ride." And I do agree about the chairlift being called Joy. It has been a joyous, fun filled, with a little fear, ride.
The fear makes me turn to prayer.
He is so awesome and the ride is indescribable.
Diana
Truthseeker2004
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Username: Truthseeker2004

Post Number: 1
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Friday, December 10, 2004 - 4:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Didnt the Sabbath exist long before the Ten Commandments? I know folks have likely heard this argument before..but when God says to remember something (like the Sabbath)...shouldn't that mean that He is trying to tell His people something important? I am also curious too because the bible says we will keep Sabbath in the New earth....There are not many reasons for resting on Sunday..but there are alot of excuses for not resting on Sabbath.......BTW...I am still SDA, former pentecostal and the only reason I joined the church was because I learned things in the bible that I never knew before...I do have a question though. If you think that the Sabbath is not important..doesn't that put a big hole in the entire prophecy of Daniel and Revelation? I mean...Daniel was all about false worship....and it is tied as well to false worship system prior to Christ's return......Who and what is this false religion and how do the very elect become deceived? Thanks for any/all replies.....p.s...I hope that because I am still SDA..that you will allow for me to comment here from time to time. I learn alot from postive debate....God bless!!!!
Belvalew
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Username: Belvalew

Post Number: 71
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Friday, December 10, 2004 - 5:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Truthseeker,

The NT clearly teaches that Jesus has fulfilled the law, even the Sabbath law, and he did so by becoming our Sabbath (we can rest from the effort of saving ourselves because salvation is ours through Jesus Christ). Since Jesus is our Sabbath, we can still remember the Sabbath, in fact we would do well to totally remember that Jesus is our Sabbath, every day, every hour. Our association with true Sabbath worship (worshipping Jesus) is even more intimate now than it was before Jesus lived and died for us. Please do Remember the Sabbath, but remember that it is no longer associated with a day, but with the Grace of our Lord, Jesus Christ.

Belva
Flyinglady
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Username: Flyinglady

Post Number: 823
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Friday, December 10, 2004 - 6:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Truthseeker2004,
Thank you for posting on here. You will learn a lot here, as I have done since leaving the SDA beliefs behind along with EGW.
You are welcome to post here. Ask any questions and some one will answer you. We welcome anyone seeking truth and wanting to know Jesus. Keep coming back. Remember, God is an awesome God and will lead you where He wants you.
Diana
Flyinglady
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Username: Flyinglady

Post Number: 824
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Friday, December 10, 2004 - 6:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Truthseekder2004,
When its was written, Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy, remember the children of Israel had just left 400 years of slavery in Egypt. The Sabbath was given to them when they were given the manna. Remember they were to gather the manna every day and twice as much on the 6th day as none would fall on the 7th. The Sabbath had just been introduced to them and it was new to them. The remember was for the children of Israel only. The 10 C were part of a covenant with the Israelites that included the temple, sacrificial system and everything else. Jesus fulfilled all that with His death on the cross and his subsequent resurrection from the grave. As Belva explained above we can now rest in Jesus every day. Jesus is the original Sabbath, not a day of the week. We rest in Him every day. He is our Sabbath rest every day of the week. I think that is awesome and I do love Him dearly for this.
Diana
Susan_2
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Username: Susan_2

Post Number: 1207
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Friday, December 10, 2004 - 7:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Truthseeker, first I'd like to apologise if my tacky and blunt unkind sense of humor has ever been unkind to you. When I get tacky I do not mean it towards any paricular individual. And, welcome. I don't get into much theology, unlike a lot of these scholars on this forum. When it come to the resting on the Sabbath issue I only like to focus on one of my favorite texts. It's by Jesus, He said, "come unto me all you who are weary and of heavy heart and I will give you rest". For me that sums it up. He did not say the weary and those with a heavy heart should wait until the sventh day of the week for rest.
Ric_b
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Username: Ric_b

Post Number: 96
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Friday, December 10, 2004 - 8:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Susan,
Your response is as profound and as clear as any that the "theologians" will make about it.
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 1064
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Saturday, December 11, 2004 - 12:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Susan, I loved your answer. Rest in Jesus is 24/7!

As far as the word "remember" goes, when God wrote the 10 Commandments, He wasn't talking about the past; He was talking about the future. If I say to Richard as he leaves in the morning, "Remember to meet me at 4:00 for our appointment at the school today," I'm not referring to something from the past that he's to continue remembering. I'm talking about the future. The argument that "remember" means to keep doing something from the past is a "fabricated" argument. It's not linguistically sound. God was telling them that, from that time on, they were to remember the Sabbath. He had never given humans a command to keep the Sabbath before the manna (Exodus 16) which happened just weeks before the law was given on Mt. Sinai.

We will honor Jesus, the reality which Sabbath foreshadowed (Colossians 2:17), throughout eternity. A day in eternity, after all, is a moot point! Revelation says there will be no sun there--the Lamb is the light. Time will not exist.

The Lamb is everything, even our Sabbath rest. Praise God for Jesus!

Colleen

Truthseeker2004
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Username: Truthseeker2004

Post Number: 2
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Saturday, December 11, 2004 - 7:01 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for your replies...Yes..I believe that we should not get hung up on one commandment and forget the other nine..Adventists can easily be accused of this..I have many friends in other churches as I worked for many years for a multi-denominational Christian organization...I see God at work in the hearts of many people and know that His love and mercy is not exclusive to SDA's.....Now regarding the 10 commandments, God wrote them with His finger and they were placed inside the ark, unlike the Mosaic law which was placed into the side of it. If the Sabbath was to be done away with..and God is omnipotent, omniscient, then why wouldn't it have been included with the law of ordinances or the Mosaic law...There appears to be no instance of its change in the New Testament...Well.....the bible says in the end we need to each work out our salvation with fear and trembling....I think that God looks at the intent of our hearts and He can clearly see past our self-righteousness.....Thanks again for your replies.............John
Susan_2
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Username: Susan_2

Post Number: 1209
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Saturday, December 11, 2004 - 8:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A bit more here about this "resting on the Sabbath" discussion. I personally know an elderly devout SDA lady. She will insist that the SDA church does not teach Sunday-keepers will be lost and only SDA's will be saved because of the Sabbath issue. In fact, she frequently will tell me that the Sabbath issue is not mandated by God to Christians like it was by God for the Jews. The reason according to her that God says people are to rest on the Sabbath is because He created us physical beings and He knows we need the PHYSICAL rest that a day off brings. It is not ment to be a SPIRITUAL rest in keeping the Sabbath holy because anyone can get the spiritual rest anytime in prayer and Bible study. The command is ment to bring us the PHYSICAL rest people need. So, she says to not sleep and otherwise REST on Sabbath, that is the sin. Of course, this person is very fanatical about foods and drinks, too so her focus is on the health aspect of it. To her resting on the Sabbath/keeping Sabbath holy is a health law. I don't know about you others out there but I don't just go, go, go until I'm totally exhaused. My body lets me know every day of the week when I need to rest and pretty much how much rest I need. What I need to be more diligent about is exrcise. I told her once that I have never met a Sunday-keeper who doesn't know when to rest. The conversation went no further.
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 1068
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Saturday, December 11, 2004 - 10:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

John, have you read Sabbath in Christ or Greg Taylor's book Discovering the New Covenant? For that matter, Greg Taylor has part of his study on this website in his story on our stories page. Please read them.

The New Covenant was something completely new that was instituted after JEsus' resurrection, and it was foretold in Jeremiah 33. Hebrews CLEARLY says the old covenant (read that Mosaic covenant--that's what Hebrews discusses) was faulty and is replaced. Hebrews 7 says that with the change of the priesthood (from Levitical to Jesus' Melchizedek priesthood) came a change in the law.

God's finger on stone did not "make" the law eternal. God IS the law--He is eternal. Jeremiah and Ezekiel both talk about God changing people's hearts from stone to flesh as part of the new covenant. Stone, which seems so permanent, is a metaphor for the impermanent when it comes to our hearts.

Jesus said He was greater than the temple (Matthew 12)--and in the temple was the presence of God and the presence of the law. By saying He was greater than the temple, Jesus was saying that He was the presence of God; the law is in Him. Sabbath rest is in Him. He has surpassed all the symbols of the Mosaic covenant.

Jesus is greater than all!

Colleen
Loneviking
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Username: Loneviking

Post Number: 294
Registered: 7-2000
Posted on Saturday, December 11, 2004 - 10:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Truthseeker---
Hold on! You've got some things wrong in your post. What was written on those stone tablets? Did you know there is only one verse in the Old Testament that says that the 10 Commandments were on those tablets? There are several other verses that call the writing on those tablets the 'tablets of the covenant'. Look at this:

Ex. 32:15 The tablets were written on BOTH sides.

Ex. 31:18 Calls the tablets the 'tablets of testimony'. Read Chap. 31-there's a lot of other stuff mentioned besides the 10 Commandments.

Deut. 9:15 calls the tablets 'the tablets of the covenant'. The actual recitation of the covenant begins in Exodus 20 and continues to Exodus 24:3 where the people say 'all that the Lord has said we will do'.

The bottom line is that to say that the '10' were in the ark and were special because they were written by God---the law of Moses was outside because it was written by Moses is simplistic and probably wrong. The evidence suggests that the original covenant, written by God and containing all 613 laws of the Torah were inside the ark. Outside, and accessible, was a working copy of those same laws.

In any case, we know that what was written on the tablets was the old covenant and was done away with.

Hebrews 8:13 'When He said, "A new covenant", He has made the first obsolete'.....

Hebrews 9:4 makes clear that the 'tables of the covenant' is what is being referred too. What was on the 'tables of the covenant?'. At the very least, the 10 commandments.
Jeremy
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Username: Jeremy

Post Number: 172
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Saturday, December 11, 2004 - 11:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

John,

As was mentioned above, Jesus is the Sabbath and we are to remember Him. The Sabbath day was the sign of the Old Covenant between God and Israel (Exodus 31). The sign of the New Covenant is the Lord's Supper. Jesus said, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me." (1 Corinthians 11:25 NASB.)

So Jesus is saying that we are now to remember HIM, who IS the Sabbath! The sabbath day was only a shadow pointing to Jesus the Substance (Colossians 2:16-17).

You wrote:

"Now regarding the 10 commandments, God wrote them with His finger and they were placed inside the ark, unlike the Mosaic law which was placed into the side of it. If the Sabbath was to be done away with..and God is omnipotent, omniscient, then why wouldn't it have been included with the law of ordinances or the Mosaic law...There appears to be no instance of its change in the New Testament..."

The Ten Commandments were most certainly included in the Mosaic Covenant and the Mosaic Law--they were the center of it! They were in the "Book of the Law" which was placed outside the ark. If they weren't then we wouldn't have a copy of them today, since the stone tablets have long been gone--so much for them being eternal!

Why were they inside the ark? They were kept inside the ark, because they were "the tablets of the covenant" (Deut. 9:9, 11, 15), "the words of the covenant" (Ex. 34:28), and they specifically, were the Mosaic/Sinaitic/Old Covenant: "So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, that is, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone." (Deuteronomy 4:13 NASB.)

What covenant is this? It is the Mosaic/Sinaitic/Old Covenant between God and Israel, which has now "disappeared" according to Hebrews 8, and which we are commanded to cast out in Galatians 4!

So we see that the Ten Commandments were the tables of the covenant, were the words of the covenant, were in the ark of the covenant, and specifically, were the Old Covenant--the covenant which WE are COMMANDED to CAST OUT in Galatians 4:30! :-)

For a recent discussion on the Sabbath/The Law/The Covenants check out this thread here, starting with the November 13 posts.

Jeremy

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