| Author | Message | ||
| Esther Registered user Username: Esther Post Number: 98 Registered: 5-2004 |
Stardoc, I used to wonder the very same thing about the God of the OT vs NT. It's only been as Iíve studied out the other issues and removed the baggage from Adventism that Iíve been able to see that humanity deserves Godís wrath. Just his glory is enough to destroy us, and yet throughout the Bible, is story after story of God trying to show His love to us. I never truly saw the glory of the exodus prior to leaving Adventism. God was there WITH them. He was in the cloud leading them, and providing miracle after miracle from crossing the red sea, to providing food from heaven. All He wanted was for them to have complete trust in Him, and to love Him in return. It wasnít until they failed to do this time after time that He resorted to: ěOrder on order, order on order, Line on line, line on line, a little here, a little there. Indeed, He will speak to this people through stammering lips and a foreign tongue, He who said to them, Here is rest, give rest to the weary, and here is repose, but they would not listen. So the word of the Lord to them will be, Order on order, order on order, line on line, line on line, A little here, a little there, That they may go and stumble backward, be broken, snared and taken captive.î Is 28:10-13 The God who should consume sinful humanity in His wrath, rather, loves us, and desires to save us all. Isnít it amazing! | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1087 Registered: 12-2003 |
God's ultimate purpose is to glorify Himself--the only One worthy of our honor and praise. Prior to Jesus becoming our literal sacrifice, God's purposes were revealed perhaps more graphically and directly because the revelation of the Father through Jesus had not yet happened. Consequently, God wiped out Canaanite nations as Israel conquered the land. Ancient armies always took their deities into war with them; the winning nation thus demonstrated to its neighbors that IT had the most powerful god and was to be the most feared. When Israel took the ark into battle, sent the levitical choir ahead of the army, etc., and God destroyed the enemy without Israel even having to engage in extended battle (think Gideon, for example), He was declaring Himself to the Canaanites to be the God over all gods. Israel was to be honored and feared because it had the God who demonstrated His power in decisive ways for which Israel could not take the credit. Human life is not the ultimate "value" in the universe; God's glory is. Much of what we see in the Old Testament (Uzzah, for example) was establishing the sovereign, absolute power and glory of God with which mankind must not causually trifle. Yet God has always been the God of justice and mercy and compassion. He shows no favoritism (Deut. 10:17-19); he disciplines but only with justice (Jeremiah 30:11). In Jesus God demonstrated His absolute justice by taking full responsibility for our sins through Jesus, thus demonstrating that He is both just and the one who justifies (Romans 3:25-26). In Jesus we see much more of God's reality than Israel did in the Old Testament. We see that God does not arbitrarily punish; he takes our sin into Himself and shed innocent blood for the sins of all humanity, including Uzzah. As I have begun to see that God is the story, not mankind, God's justice and mercy and His dealings with people have made more sense to me. Ultimately, God is revealing and glorifying Himself. Creation and life is all about God, not all about us. Yet God created us and gave us each a role in His story. Amazing. Colleen | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 250 Registered: 4-2000 |
Windmotion, Welcome back! It seems like years since we presented the Gospel every Friday night in an SDA chatroom. Even though you married an Adventist, I always felt that you were too grounded in God's Word to ever abandon biblical Christianity for any reason. It is truly wonderful how God protects and preserves us in every turbulent storm in life. I am delighted to hear that your husband has officially left Adventism. Indeed, we serve a prayer-answering God. My oldest daughter lives in the Vancouver, Washington area. Washington State is a very beautiful place. Dennis J. Fischer E-mail: dennisfischer@alltel.net | ||
| Vchowdhury1 Registered user Username: Vchowdhury1 Post Number: 97 Registered: 7-2004 |
Susan_2 and Jeremy, about a few weeks ago I was in a discussion about "the law" with a friend of mine that is still sda. She also made the typical sda comment that if we don't have to obey "the law" then its all right to kill, and steal, and commit adultry and disrespect our parents, etc., etc.(this seems to be the standard sda defense of "the law"). I simply told her that if she had Jesus in her heart, and if she had the Holy Spirit, she would have no desire to do those things anyway...And I asked her if she loved her mom? She responded that she did, very much. I asked her then where are the list of rules her mom gave her to follow to prove that my friend loved her? She, of course, had no answer. I think I made my point. | ||
| Windmotion Registered user Username: Windmotion Post Number: 80 Registered: 6-2001 |
Thank you all for welcoming me back :-) It HAS been years Dennis since we were in the chatroom and since I started posting here, probably about 4. (I'm sure you remember "Nate")My husband has been out of the sda church for about 3 years, and I have quit worrying about him going back for about 2. I'm in Seattle now, although my mother-in-law's church is in East Wenatchee Dd, and my father-in-law is a doctor at a hospital in Walla Walla, Susan. I cannot tell you what a blessing it is to come back after years of not posting and see Colleen faithfully responding to your questions and comments, always logical, always Bibically-based. Colleen you are such a treasure. God has prepared you for this unique ministry. Quick thought about the differences between the God of the Old Testament and the God of the New. I see the children of Israel as just that, God's little kids. He has to tell them exactly what to do and how to do it. There is little room for error. But over time, through progressive revelation, we learn more about God and what he wants. So instead of a parent saying to a 2-year-old "put all the blocks in the wagon before you go outside" the parent says to the teen "I want you to keep your room clean." That is why we are never commanded to love in the 10 commandments, but the New Testament says love is the fulfillment of the law. Anyway, I thought I had left adventism behind me, but here it is again so keep me in your prayers as I try and befriend the in-laws. They are surprisingly nice, since they think I am leading their son/brother along the path to hell. My sister-in-law is the most open to the gospel, but I have to be careful because she is very sensitive to criticism about the adventist church, although she is unhappy with it. --Hanah | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1096 Registered: 12-2003 |
Hanah, it is so good to hear from you and to hear that your husband has left the church. I remember how much I prayed for him when you were posting here before! Is he attending church with you, growing in Jesus, etc? I've concluded that a "former" never quite leaves Adventism completely behind. While we definitely move on with Jesus, still our particular contacts and understanding give us unique knowledge and wisdom and spiritual insight. Who I am in Christ today is directly shaped by what I experienced and learned as I came out of Adventism and its false, subtley twisted doctrines. I praise God for redeeming the past and also for giving me (as He's given all of us here) the insight to know how to respond to questions of law and grace with deeper understanding than I ever would have had if I'd never been Adventist. God is going to use your new proximity to your inlaws, Hanah, to help redeem your own Adventism and also your husband's. I praise God for His sovereignty that wastes nothing and redeems everything we submit to Him! Colleen | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 191 Registered: 10-2004 |
Dennis and Hanah, Which SDA chat room was this? I'm just curious, as I participated in several SDA chat rooms from 1999-2001, including the "official" SDA chat room that was part of the official SDA forum, until they shut it all down in 2000. Jeremy | ||
| Dd Registered user Username: Dd Post Number: 257 Registered: 7-2004 |
Hanah, please let me know when you visit your father-in-law...we'll make it a fun time...! | ||
| Windmotion Registered user Username: Windmotion Post Number: 81 Registered: 6-2001 |
My father-in-law lives in Kennewick and commutes to Walla Walla, Dd. Where do you live? For some reason I thought Wenatchee would have been closer, but I'm still sketchy on my Washington geography. We are going to visit for New Year's and to Wenatchee for Christmas. My father-in-law leans toward hysterical I mean, erm uhhh ... historical adventism and probably would not be amused. Jeremy, the chatroom was a Yahoo club. It may have been called SDAchat, but I could be totally wrong. And my name is Hannah actually LOL. You all are so kind to use the odd spelling just because I did. --Hannah | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 251 Registered: 4-2000 |
Jeremy, The chatroom, that I referred to, was organized by Adventist Today before they too pulled the plug on message boards and chatrooms. Their chatroom had a "private" or "whisper" feature that made it possible for us to prepare our comments in the chatroom--even to pose hard-hitting questions (smile). Needless to add, they deeply frowned on my chatroom chaplaincy. On another SDA (MSN) chatroom, I remember the monitor sternly warning me to quit talking about the Sabbath. I also have utilized the "whisper" feature to warn newcomers to the chatroom about the unvarnished truth about Adventism. Many have sincerely thanked me for the chatroom "whisper" as they were leaving. The Lord has abundantly blessed my online chaplaincy ministry. One needs to have "thick skin" to effectively minister to Seventh-day Adventists. They tend to become very unkind whenever their legalism is challenged. It also helps to know more about Adventism than they themselves do. Without being arrogant, I can honestly say that I know more about Adventism today than when I was still a member. Having more information than is necessary or expected is a major empowerment when working with people who think they know everything about the Bible and/or Adventism. Many times I have sent emails and books to those that show a genuine interest in biblical truth. Some even try to convert me back into Adventism. One particular email, that I received from an SDA minister, stands out in mind after many months. In a nutshell, he informed that he no longer believed several doctrinal pillars in Adventism. Although he gave many Bible studies and preached sermons every week, he was asking me for advice in what he should do. His drawback or hesitancy was largely about money. He had several kids in SDA schools that were subsidized with their educational costs. Furthermore, there was the retirement fund factor that worried him. Of course, I advised him to leave the cultic religion that he no longer could wholeheartedly believe in--despite all sacrifices on his part. I have never heard back from him since my email reply to him. Unfortunately, Adventism has the strange ability to put it own members and pastors into most trying circumstances. All in all, I am more convinced than ever that Seventh-day Adventism does not thrive on the Internet. Adventists are their own worst enemies online and elsewhere. I have seen them repeatedly attack each other online. Their frequent lack of courtesy online is a major red flag in the eyes of casual observers. Admittedly, it is rather entertaining to witness their shooting themselves in the foot. In short, Adventism does not thrive where factual information about them is readily available with a click of the mouse. Third world evangelism is currently their only hope. However, even in these poor countries and islands, neighborhood cyber cafes are increasingly busy and popular. Praise God! Serving the online Bible student, Dennis J. Fischer | ||
| Truthseeker2004 Registered user Username: Truthseeker2004 Post Number: 24 Registered: 12-2004 |
I don't want to debate as it is not fitting for the children of God.... but I do have a verse to post..with a question...and comments are welcome. Mark 2:27-28 says And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: so that the Son of man is lord even of the sabbath." .....My question for you is...when Jesus said that the sabbath was made for man..who was he referring to? What evidence does this verse offer that proves He was referring specifically to the Jew...or was He making a blanket statement for all mankind? Something for you to ponder. | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 252 Registered: 4-2000 |
Truthseeker, "The meaning of this verse has been vigorously debated. Some have argued it teaches that the Sabbath was instituted AT CREATION for all mankind. However, this interpretation runs completely contrary to the Jewish understanding that the Sabbath was given ONLY to the nation of Israel. While we agree that there was a seventh-day rest in Eden, we will find that it was not identical to the Sabbath of Sinai. Here Jesus is saying that the Sabbath was made for the BENEFIT of man and not man for the BENEFIT of the Sabbath...The thrust of Jesus' argument is not in defining appropriate Sabbath behavior or a correct interpretation of old covenant Sabbath law; rather it is showing how old covenant law, including Sabbath law, points to HIM. In this respect it seems obvious that the Sabbath is a ritual law. Even Jewish scholars recognize that the Sabbath is a ritual law and not a moral law. Thus, like the other ritual laws, the importance of the shadow falls away in the presence of the reality of the Messiah." (excerpts from SABBATH IN CHRIST by Dale Ratzlaff) Being that ceremonial, civil, and moral laws are mixed together throughout the Pentateuch, it should not surprise us that a ceremonial law is found in the Ten Commandments as well. Leviticus 23:1-3 makes it very clear that the weekly Sabbath is one of the festal convocations for "the sons of Israel." Furthermore, unlike ceremonial or civil laws, moral laws are in effect 24/7 of every nano-second of time--not merely once a week. Dennis J. Fischer | ||
| Truthseeker2004 Registered user Username: Truthseeker2004 Post Number: 25 Registered: 12-2004 |
Just another comment. I realize that some of you in here have had bad experiences while being members of the adventist church. There are alot of good people in the adventist church...and alot of us, myself included......understand and experience God's grace and mercy daily.We are all people just like the small group in this forum...all children of God. Just like yourselves......I too have chosen a day that I will rest on...one in seven as God intended for all of us...a day made for man to rest and heal from a week of labor...If God is not concerned about which day we set aside...then choosing saturday or sunday should be of concern to nobody at all.....In this society..it seems like for some strange reason there is a stigma attached to folks who set aside saturday for rest..although that perception is changing as the church continues to grow. I am familiar with the idea of grace without law....I worked for many years with a non denominational Christian organization, as a counselor to developmentally challenged adults....I have been involved even most recently with many faiths..I have friends who are pentecostal, vineyard, church of God, Lutheran, catholic, baptist..I have also attended all of their churches.My friends absolutely respect the adventist church because they have seen Christ at work in me. At first they had questions but when the love of Jesus shines through..people learn to shed those denominational barriers...and alot of us adventists are no different..In fact my retired sda pastor is in charge of the ministerial board for all of the denominations of churches in our large community. We have worked with other denominations in our town including the dutch reformed and the salvation army churches. My pastor also makes a point of attending each of the different churches at least once every year in the community to familiarize himself with their beliefs...He comes back and tells us to.....examples like some churches will not allow him to take communion unless he is a member. I am just saying..dont paint us all with the same brush....Some of us..believe it or not..despite that we still think the ten commandments are valid today....are really walking daily in God's will. Something that strikes me as interesting since I moved here...(I am from Ontario Canada and just immigrated here to the U.S after a long wait to be with my American wife)....is that everywhere in this town...there are blue and white signs posted on peoples lawns showing and saying that they stand for the ten commandments...There are only a half/dozen of us adventists in this community and we worship in the chapel at the lutheran church.....but hundreds who still acknowledge the moral law.....so it isnt just adventists who hold this belief.I dont know much about the what goes on in the U.S as I am new here..but my wife tells me that there is an issue with the government and the ten commandments and that people are standing up for them..I hear evangelists like Pat Robertson of the 700 club speak out in favour of them as well...It's refreshing to hear that people care here as in Canada it seems like if they took some form of religious liberty away..people wouldnt even care......There are also famous folks who will tell you that the moral law is still valid today..Billy Graham being one of them..I have one of his quotes... But I dont want to get off again on another tangent discussing law and grace because it ends up being like a dog chasing its tail...It's exhausting and really requires alot of typing....lol From what I have been reading here..I get the idea that the whole issue lies with ellen white and her writings....thats what everything seems to boil down to...I havent read alot of her stuff...I am just starting to now..For myself..I have no problem accepting her as an author of some good books...Its not for me to judge her for plagiarism if thats what she has done..It's not for me to critique all of her writings either.I certainly dont have the time as bible study takes up the majority of it..I am going to leave that judging to God..She is dead..Her books are in print everywhere and all the judging in the world isnt going to change any of it......I dont want to lose sight on why God has called me out of this world..It isnt to be concerned with someone else's business when I have a log in my own eye. Ellen white isnt new to this..There are alot of widely accepted false prophets out there...I can think of a few like hal lindsay, jack van impe, peter and paul lalonde, benny hinn...and the list is endless..There are even some writers out there who promote books like the left behind series that appeal to millions and millions of Christians who actually belief it as truth. The fact of the matter is...our relationship with God is just that....our relationship with Him...If we want to start judging others..we have to look at the outward manifestation of the fruits of the spirit in their lives......Rather than look at which day someone rests on..or whether or not they still believe the 10 commandments are outdated and dont apply today.....God will deal with those things with those individuals...individually.. You have all chosen the path you believe that God wants you on and so have I.....so have we all.....I had a friend in Canada who..when we discussed our different faiths once told me...."Brother....it doesnt matter which paths we all take...just so long as they lead to Jesus!! | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 499 Registered: 7-2003 |
John, I've already dealt with Jesus' Lordship, His superiority over the Sabbath in another thread. (The context of Christ's statement is especially clear in the parrallel passage in Matt. 11:27-12:8). So I won't go over that again at this time. As to Jesus' statement that the Sabbath was made for man, I agree with the words of Christ completely. Adam and Eve were created into perfect sprititual rest, perfect peace and fellowship with God. They also enjoyed physical rest and comfort in the Garden. When they sinned all this was lost. Their peace with God was broken, they lost their spiritual rest, and they were cursed with hard labor for the first time. And yet we see nothing of Adam and Eve ever being given instructino in the keeping a Sabbath day, nor do we see so much as a mention of Sabbath keeping by Able, or by Seth, or Enoch, or Methusela, or by Noah, or by any of Noah's children. Abraham came out of an idol worshipping background and yet we don't see any instruction to Abrahah about Sabbath keeping, nor by Isaac, or by Jacob, or by Joseph, of by any of the Hebrews in Egypt. In fact, there isn't a single use of the word "Sabbath" anywhere in Genesis or the first part of Ex. It's not until the children of Israel leave Egypt that we ever see a human being instructed in keeping a Sabbath. Moses has to explain this concept to the Children of Israel and it is obviously a new concept to them. They are given two reasons for it: 1) as a rememberance of the rest that mankind lost in the beginning 2) and as a rememberance of the rest God gave them in leading them out of slavery. But even then it was only a pale shadow of the rest that once was. The Jewish sabbaths still called for work, work, work, work, work, work, rest, the work some more. In the NT we find out that the Sabbath was a shadow pointing towards the reality that is found in Christ (Col 2:14-17). We find out that Christians find their ultimate Sabbath in Christ when they believe (Heb. ch. 3&4). The Sabbath as a shadow was indeed made for man and it was a very good thing. The Jewish sabbath gave the old covenant Jews a little taste of the rest that once was and the rest that was to come. But Jesus also made it clear that someone even greater had now come. He is the reality. Why cling to a shadow when you have the real thing? It's like this: Suppose your wife goes away for a trip and she gives you a picture to remember her by. The picture is for you. The picture is a good thing. You look at the picture often and find enjoyment in thinking of your wife. But then your wife comes back from her trip and say's "I home" openning her arms wide to you. But for some reason, instead of dropping the picture and running to her you continue to fondle the picture and kiss the picture and all the while your wife is standing right there with her arms open, but you can't let go of the picture. Jesus stands here today with His arms open wide asking you to release the shadow that pointed to Him, and embrace Him as the reality that it could only point to. Jesus wants to be our Lord and God, but there can only be ond God. Elevating a day of the week to an object of worship is just another form of idolatry. Chris | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 500 Registered: 7-2003 |
John, I find your comments interesting. In one post you seem to want to paint Adventists as part of one big happy evangelical family where everyone is free to consider a day as more sacred than another or to consider every day alike. But in other post you seem to suggest that those that don't observe the Jewish weekly Sabbaths are not true Christians, are willfully disobedient, or are anti-nomian. You can't have it both ways. You can't be part of the larger body of Christ and at the same time believe that evangelical Christians are part of Babylon and need to be Judaized into Sabbath observance. Chris | ||
| Dd Registered user Username: Dd Post Number: 258 Registered: 7-2004 |
Hannah (with 2 N's!  ), I live in Walla Walla. If you are ever interested in getting together, email Colleen for my email address and let me know when you will be in the area. (I am ocassionaly in the Tri-Cities to shop at the closest Costco!) I would love to visit with you. My husband is half in/half out (more out than in really) but I would love to hear more about your experience and how you are dealing with your SDA family. We moved here about a year and a half ago and are now very close to "hysterical" family (cute term, BTW), too. Sounds like we have a great deal in common. | ||
| Truthseeker2004 Registered user Username: Truthseeker2004 Post Number: 26 Registered: 12-2004 |
Chris..that is not what I intended for you to feel...if that is your feeling then perhaps it is also your conviction..Christianity is based on faith..not feeling...I stand firm in my bible based beliefs and will till the day I die..not because I am a lawkeeper or because I think it will save me..but because it was the day the Lord made for man and I love Jesus and want to live even as He lived....Faith in Christ is not about what we want ..or what we feel is right..or what we want to change out of the bible to suit ourselves....Its not about twisting scripture to allow us to mold in with the rest of the world either. I understand freedom for the first time in my life.....As I said...I was pentecostal for many many years and it had me in bondage....I didnt know how to study the bible..I didnt understand alot of what it said....The "religion" that I had was so watered down by the world that I was nothing but a carnal Christian.......I am free now in Christ Jesus to understand the scripture thanks to what has been taught me.God wants us on solid food..not forever on the milk....Grace is awesome...but in receiving grace....out of love for His gifts we easily submit everything to Christ and that includes our worldly perceptions of who we think God is and what we think He wants from us. I don't have to prove to you which day is the Lord's....The bible is clear in telling me which day that is and if you can't see it..then it is your conviction and not mine....I am free in Christ..and because of that, I will give Him my utmost for His highest. The group here is just a minority...It is nothing new..There have been people in the past who came into the church and left it for personal reasons, no matter what the denomination it happens frequently among Christians. Sadly, there are splits and divisions all the time..It will be that way till the day Jesus comes. I am not the one who has to prove anything..I know what the bible says..The onus is on you to prove the bible rather than make excuses.Twisting the very scriptures that Jesus gave us in regards to keeping His commandments by picking and choosing what feels good to you is not solid biblical evidence...I don't want to get drawn into any debate again..because...like I said...it is like a dog chasing its tail. Defending the truth is much easier than defending a lie. You say the ten commandments are outdated......done away with and nailed to the cross.....Thats not how the entire world sees it though...As i mentioned in my last post..there are many non-adventists who agree that the moral law is still in effect....in this town alone..I have seen hundreds of signs on people's lawns that say they agree and uphold God's moral law.This is not just in the state of Ohio..it is becoming a national issue...are they all "lawkeepers' too? Billy Graham..Pat Robertson and organizations like the Christian Research Institute...along with many popular evangelists agree that the 10 commandments are still relevant today. Yet for some reason..you target your anger towards adventist people because they choose to keep God's commandments out of love ...Are they the ones you have an axe to grind with...You are the very people who preach grace alone yet show none towards the people you once fellowshipped with..It seems ironic that your goal is to tear them apart. I have nonadventist friends who understand adventism completely now because they look at the fruit of the spirit in a person's life and not the denominational title....Thank God that this perception is changing in the world today and that many who once believed they were a cult have accepted them as evangelical Christians. Many cult books have changed their stand on adventists..and for good reason. Leaving the adventist church opens up the door to alot of questioning..If you do away with acknowledging the ten commandments...and disregard the bible sabbath that Christ and all of His disciples observed...then the basis for understanding bible prophecy crumbles as there needs to be a reorganization and understanding of scripture...In Revelation..God clearly warns us about this mark that we are not to take..If you don't believe that is related to false religion and the sabbath..then what is it? God would not give so dire a warning to His people without also revealing to them what this mark is......Can you imagine someone warning you that someone was going to cause extreme harm to you or your family..and that they even knew who the person was...yet when you asked for a name they would say..."well, sorry, but I can't tell you who is going to harm your family..you'll just have to find out for yourself.".....Do you really and honestly believe that God would do this with His church? Anyway..enough rambling from me....Just don't think that it's only the adventists who believe in law and grace...many faiths believe the same thing....and don't take what I say personally either because I dont mean to insult anyone here at all. If you want to reach adventists with what you believe is real..then patience and tolerance will play a big part in that. | ||
| Truthseeker2004 Registered user Username: Truthseeker2004 Post Number: 27 Registered: 12-2004 |
Chris...I like your example of the wife going on a trip and returning and I agree with most of what you said...I see that as the difference between the old and new covenants...why would we sacrifice animals today..and keep all of the ceremonial and civil laws when Christ caused the sacrifice and oblation to cease when He paid the price at Calvary. What I don't agree with is that somehow in all of the suffering and the supreme price that Christ paid for us that He intended for us to throw the ten commandments out with everything else.... | ||
| Goldenbear Registered user Username: Goldenbear Post Number: 15 Registered: 12-2004 |
When I was at Southern Adventist University (SMC when I was there) Dr. Ray Hefferlin spent time in our Issues in Physical Science and Religion Class detailing how God is a God of order.He doesn't do or for that matter create in a radom undisciplined manner. Even in its sinful state, there is unparralelled discipline. (One of the greatest testaments to creation around) The planets, our bodies both have unique operating patterns and systems that defy, I believe, randomness. With that being said, there are several observations that I would make about the sabbath... Jesus said that if He was lifted up, He would draw all men unto him. Jesus said that he was Lord of the Sabbath placing him above the day... He even said that the sabbath was made for man, not the other way around. Many people make other issues larger than the central one - The day over the days maker - The gifts of the spirit over the giver of the gift The prophet over the giver of the prophecy It is only when we focus on Jesus and Him alone that we have peace and rest in Jesus. Peter learned that out on the sea of Galillee when he took his eyes off Jesus and looked back. We must stay focused on the cross. | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 634 Registered: 7-2003 |
the mark is not for WHEN one worships, it is regarding WHO one worships. There is not a single chastisement in the whole of scripture condemning people for worshipping on the wrong day. Not one. And scripture actually does say God has assigned another day for rest and called it "today". That you refuse to acknowledge those scriptures that have been posted throughout this thread indicates your intentions here. I don't know anything about the church you were involved with before you came an SDA, but I've been a part of AOG churches before, and they teach Christ alone, him crucified. I'm always amazed to hear SDAs call Jesus and the gospel "milk" and their doctrines as "solid food". If we move beyond Christ, we've moved out of Christianity. Like it or not, many churches have services on more than just Sunday. "Most" of us are not "keeping" Sunday. If I go to the services on Sunday, I'm just as likely to go shopping afterwards, as I am on Saturday. That hardly makes me keeping Sunday. I am curious, however. Where is the word "worship" mentioned in the 4th commandment? It was a day for rest for the Jews, but the commandment itself says nothing about the correct day to worship or go to church. So, where are you getting that spin on it? To me, you talk like an SDA textbook. As Chris said above, one post you're like us, the next you're superior. IF we are brothers and sisters in Christ and IF you REALLY want to follow the Bible, you have no business judging anyone in regards to the Sabbath day. That is what scripture says also if you're taking the whole of scripture, in context. I've never heard anyone condemn anyone for going to church on Saturday. I personally do it on occasion, and there are many people who find it more convenient. But I only attend where the Bible is the only authority and source. If you want to go on Saturday, go and enjoy. Why can't I go when I want and do likewise? God knows my heart. In regards to EWG, the Bible is clear to test prophets. If she is speaking lies that are from Satan, I would think you might be curious. But it really sounds as though you are convinced by the religion's teachings, and are happy there. It is not our job to convince you you're wrong. The Holy Spirit is clearly capable of speaking to the open heart, if one can hear. I'm not sure what else you want from us. |
