| Author | Message | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 204 Registered: 10-2004 |
Here is a little-known quote within Adventism. Have any of you ever seen this quote from EGW?
EGW says that Christians are "worse than heathen" but not to tell them! Doesn't that just make you want to tell all of Christendom about this quote?  ;-) I think James White had it right when he said that "the very devil" would posssess Ellen at times. Jeremy | ||
| Dd Registered user Username: Dd Post Number: 266 Registered: 7-2004 |
WOW! Jeremy, thanks for sharing...it says it all regarding the real arrogance behind a great deal of SDA people I know. They would NEVER verbally say this but their actions and subtle comments say it loud and clear! | ||
| Goldenbear Registered user Username: Goldenbear Post Number: 21 Registered: 12-2004 |
In a practical way the christians of her day probably were worse in her eyes. The Christian of the day knew the truth of grace and could see through all the baggage and false teachings that she and the others in league with her were purporting. These Christians would be harder to convert because they could give a "thus saith the Lord". It is truly amazing what fear driving ignorance will cause people to do, say, and think. It was so ingrained that the reverberations still echo through our minds. Hence the discussion in the thread on Gen 2:3 | ||
| Windmotion Registered user Username: Windmotion Post Number: 85 Registered: 6-2001 |
The most horrifying Ellen White quote I have found that also is not widely publicized has to do with child molestation. In the book "Testimonies on Sexual Behavior" in a chapter called "child abuse" she shares a letter she wrote to a SDA church leader who admitted to molesting girls!! And Ellen White didn't think anyone besides the pastor of the church should be notified, so he could be removed from office. She doesn't say what he did, but she says if her granddaughters had to experience the same thing she would rather have them dead. She didn't even think his wife should be told!! Sounds like some other church we know!! I read this passage while I was visiting my sister-in-law, and I asked her what she thought of it, since it was in a book on her shelf. She said she wasn't familar with it, but she at first tried to defend it saying it would make the church look bad if nonadventists found out. We then got quite off the subject because I was reading to her the letter and Ellen said "Any youth who would submit her body to be handled by a man is in no way fit for the kingdom of heaven." I thought this was odd, because it seemed to imply the girls that were molested were somehow at fault. My S-I-L took it personally because she had been sexually active as a teen and wondered if she was now rejected forever. I told her Ellen had no right to say this, and God has forgiven her of it. We will be visiting her and my MIL Wednesday through Saturday, so pray we can be a testimony. On a lighter note, you know how adventists pride themselves on knowing scripture. I beat her pants off at Bible Trivia, although she was pretty knowledgable about the book of Daniel, lol. We joked before we started that the better religion would win. She said I got all the easy questions. --Hannah | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 838 Registered: 3-2004 |
All I can say is WOW!!!! I did not know EGW said that, that is either of the comments. I thank God I am no longer part of that church. God is wonderful, awesome and so forgiving when we accept Jesus. It is wonderful to know that all we need is Jesus. Diana | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1242 Registered: 11-2002 |
Yes, I knew EGW said non-SDA Christians are worse than the heathens. As I understand it the thought process goes something ike this; the heathens are ignorant of the Bible and its truth. The non-SDA Christians are worse than the heathens because they have access to THE TRUTH and as such should become SDA. My dad always referred to non-Sabbath-keepers and pork-eaters as "those heathens". As a little girl growing up Sunday mornings was our shopping day. If we would drive past a church my dad would comment about the heathens worshipping of the devils day. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1113 Registered: 12-2003 |
Thanks for sharing the quotes, Jeremy. It's amazing how the same spirit of deception is still alive and well even in the most "open" Adventist communities. Although Adventists play to the local evangelicals, copy their programs, say all the right words in their presence, participate in pastor's associations together, etc., still the Adventists underneath it all feel they have more truth, are superior in their spiritual understanding, and secretly believe those other Christians need to learn the Sabbath truth. Did any of the rest of you learn that Christianity outside Adventism was "apostate Protestantism"? Again, it's thanks to Ellen and her eschatology; she said the papacy, spiritualism, and apostate Protestantism would join hands to persecute the Sabbath keepers. No wonder there is an underlying arrogance that's so pervasive Adventists are often completely unaware they have it. I remember as I left, that I began to realize how arrogant I had been. I actually used to ponder the "fact" that I believed I was not arrogant about my Adventism although I knew many were. How embarrassing to come face-to-face with the reality of my attitude! Colleen | ||
| 4drian Registered user Username: 4drian Post Number: 32 Registered: 11-2004 |
I was taught the same thing. Christians that keep Sunday are keeping Satan's day. When the times of trouble come there will be some sincere Christians that realize they were keeping the wrong day and will become SDAs. The rest will be lost. Furthermore, it will be Suday keeping Christians, in league with the antichrist (the pope), who will visciously persecute SDAs for not keeping Sunday. I guess I am now one of the persecutors -Adrian (vlad) | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 839 Registered: 3-2004 |
Colleen, Adrian and all the rest of you, I was taught about the "apostates" and being persecuted by them and the RCC in league with each other. I do not remember hearing it at home, but I did get it at school. Like Adrian, I am now one of the persecutors(big Smile) Again, I say, thank God I am His child now and that all I need is a relationship with Jesus. God, you are awesome. Diana | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 256 Registered: 4-2000 |
I understand that the current GC President, Jan Paulsen, falsely informed the Press that SDAs are actually "mainstream Protestants" of all things. The fact is that they are neither "mainstream" nor "Protestant." Furthermore, the White Estate insists that plagiarism is merely "literary borrowing." I recently told an SDA minister that he shouldn't shave, polish his shoes, or wash dishes on the Sabbath according to Ellen White. He replied that he would need to understand the context of "shaving" that Ellen was referring to (smile). They have an excuse and/or alibi for everything. In the heat of argument, I have had SDAs tell me that they are actually "saved." When I reported that prominent, local SDAs are routinely eating out on Sabbath, a SDA pastor said that was fine. However, he and his family would never even think of eating out on Sabbath. Their official spin is really a science in itself. One of the worst insults, that they frequently hurl at you, is telling you that you never really understood Adventism in the first place. Otherwise, you would never have left them. Now classified as an enemy, they desperately try to negate your personal testimony--yes, even your relationship with Jesus. Dennis J. Fischer | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1244 Registered: 11-2002 |
But, really Dennis, Adventism never did make sense to me. I remember having my epiphany in 5th grade. My epiphany was, "This does not make sense. My teachers and my family tell me they believe the Bible only but my Bible do not say what the say it does. In fact, when I grow up I'm not going to go to my parents stupid church ever again." I hope I'm not offending anyone by using the word "stupid" but I remember as plain as the nose is on my face thinking those very words when I was 11 years old and in the 5th grade. The big thing that my ephany did not include is the freedom of religion doctrine of the SDA's. Until recenty I honestly thought that I could embrase most any religion and my family would rejoyce in my enlghtenment. I really believed that when SDA's say they believe in freedom of religion it was said to mean the individual can have whatever religion he is led to. I now realize when SDA's say they believe in the concept of freedom of religion it means only that SDA's should have the government given rights to do whatever they want whenever they want and they do not mean this in regards to their children who they raised SDA. I know this not only from the lip I get from my own kin but also from the stories that I read on this board that are so similiar. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1116 Registered: 12-2003 |
Dennis, your point about Adventists often informing us that we "never really understood Adventism in the first place" is such a good one. It's incredible to me how they will spin what we say so Adventism ends up being the "victim" which we either misunderstood, treated unfairly, abandoned, betrayed, etc. One woman I know tearfully and repeatedly mourned to her son that she hadn't known everything she know understands, so she taught him wrong and thereby precipitated his leaving. Sigh. Colleen | ||
| Tdf Registered user Username: Tdf Post Number: 25 Registered: 11-2004 |
4drian, you wrote "I was taught the same thing. Christians that keep Sunday are keeping Satan's day. When the times of trouble come there will be some sincere Christians that realize they were keeping the wrong day and will become SDAs. The rest will be lost. Furthermore, it will be Suday keeping Christians, in league with the antichrist (the pope), who will visciously persecute SDAs for not keeping Sunday." You know, it is exactly that type of indoctrination that makes it so difficult to leave the SDA church. When my wife and I first started considering the idea, we experienced intense feelings of guilt and fear. I have to admit that I still have passing thoughts that I might be wrong about EGW and that I might be lost because of it. Thankfully, we have been filling our minds with the truth of Christ's grace and mercy over the past two years and, when I have such thoughts, I quickly dismiss them. However, it's interesting to me that the type of thinking you described in your post had become so much a part of who I was. I definitely have no desire to go back to that and my heart breaks for those who are still enslaved with thoughts that they have to earn God's favor. tdf | ||
| Pw Registered user Username: Pw Post Number: 230 Registered: 6-2004 |
Amazing. However I hate to admit this, but I also had that mindset during my brief stay with the SDA. I'd be at a mall on Sunday and see people eating lunch or shopping after Sunday services and think how they are in the wrong. The SDA's really invoke that type of attitude upon their congregation to look down upon those who don't agree with their teachings. Of course, they deny it left and right, but it's at the core of their beliefs. I'm so glad to be free from that type of thinking. | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 639 Registered: 7-2003 |
Dennis, that's B's main claim to any former I talk to "they didn't understand the church's teachings well enough" ... even when I say some are former ministers... It is fascinating to watch the denial process that takes place in one's mind to keep one's foundation together. It would be almost amusing if it were so eternally sad. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1120 Registered: 12-2003 |
Tdf, I'm praising God right now for the way He is holding your and your wife's hearts and revealing Himself to you as He also helps you see the reality of what Adventism is. Those doubts are a universal experience which we've all gone through. But God is stronger than our hearts. His word is the antidote to those doubts, and His Spirit is the source of God's comfort. I continue to pray for you. Colleen | ||
| Pw Registered user Username: Pw Post Number: 231 Registered: 6-2004 |
How true. The Adventists really like to slam the formers as either ignorant or backsliders. They just can't comprehend that you can grow in a relationship with God outside their religion. | ||
| Dane Registered user Username: Dane Post Number: 83 Registered: 4-2004 |
The line of "they didn't really understand SDA doctrine" is such an insult. From what I've read about formers and from my personal observations, most of us are fairly well educated. As a group we actually understand SDA doctrine far better than most of the rank and file. This idea is really exposed for what it is when you consider the number of SDA scholars and hundreds of seminary trained pastors who have left. Did these people also "not understand"? This attitude is typical of a cult mentality that can only defend itself by using ad hominem attacks. Dane | ||
| Dd Registered user Username: Dd Post Number: 270 Registered: 7-2004 |
Tdf, I have found the whole process of leaving is one of "belittling". I tell my pre-teen daughter that the kids who do not really have much self-confidence put other kids down just to make themselves feel better. In their own mind, they cannot achieve a "higher status" so rather than work on improving themselves, they pull other people down. I think it works the same in the SDA system (at least in my own family system). I have not found anyone in the SDA system who lovingly comes to me and says, "let me show you where my understanding is different than yours". They just shun me or ignore me. That goes for several SDA pastor friends. They don't even want to debate openly. Noone has ever said openly to me the hurtful things we discuss here on FAF but I know what they are thinking. It is all part of the belittling process to try and make us feel paralyzed and stick with what we know. I think knowing we are in love with the "Real Thing" and have a thriving relationship with a loving, caring Friend may be a bit intimidating for some. It's easier for them to spout off their little hurtful comments or just ignore us and then they don't feel so helpless in their own lack of understanding. PLEASE, do no mistake my comments as being judgmental of a SDA's heart condition. This is just one of my observations. Does anyone else get this same sense? God is so good to provide us a safe haven here on FAF. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1125 Registered: 12-2003 |
Dd, yes, I believe you've accurately summed up this phenomenon we all seem to experience. There is a great sense of Adventists being threatened and defensive when one of us leaves for the sake of Jesus. They don't have the same reaction to those who go into the world and abandon God. I think you're right that our relationships with Jesus are intimidating to many. Colleen | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 845 Registered: 3-2004 |
Dd, I will agree with you and what you say in your post above. Diana | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1248 Registered: 11-2002 |
The December issue of the Review was in todays mail. One of the feature articles is about adults who were raised SDA and have given up on the truth. I think the article is titled, "I'll Be Home For Christmas" or something like that. The main point of the article as I understand it is that the elderly SDA's whose adult children are no longer SDA, these elderly faithful SDA's shoud never give up hope of their children returning to Adventism because they raised "us" right and in the truth. A sad story was in the aticle about a very sad elderly SDA lady who raised her three children to be SDA and as adults all three have trned away from the SDA truth. The article did not say how many of those who were raised SDA have embrased Christianity, just that they have fallen from the SDA mindset. I could only figure out the title of the article was applied to the topic presented in the article with the word "home" meaning "the SDA church" and the wod "Christmas" meaning we can only come to Christ through the SDA church. | ||
| Bob Registered user Username: Bob Post Number: 1 Registered: 7-2000 |
Hi, everyone. I am not new here. I haven't posted in more than a year, but I read this forum daily. For those of you who have been on this site for a couple of years or more, I want to clarify that I am NOT the same "Bob" who was somewhat disruptive in the past. I was visiting SDA friends recently, and had a lengthy conversation with a young man who was raised SDA, but was born again a couple of years ago, and is now attending an evangelical church and planning on becoming a minister. It was obvious to me that this young man has truly found Jesus, and is totally devoted to following Him. Later on, I mentioned to his SDA mother that she must be very happy about his dedication to Jesus. Her reaction was not really a surprise. She said, in a resigned tone of voice, "Well, I just have to put him in God's hands, I guess; he has some really weird ideas." I was reminded of what Jesus said - "A man's foes will be those of his own household." It is spiritually frightening that so many loyal SDAs find the influence of the Holy Spirit "weird" and to be avoided at all costs. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1126 Registered: 12-2003 |
Bob, it's good to see you posting again! Colleen | ||
| Pw Registered user Username: Pw Post Number: 232 Registered: 6-2004 |
Again...it's hard for SDA's to think you can have a real relationship with God outside their realm. | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 236 Registered: 10-2004 |
After reading Hannah's post, I looked that up awhile back on the EGW cd-rom and read the letter. It is so sick. I will address some of the worst parts of the letter. It is "Letter 106a, 1896" and it is found in the compilation book Testimonies on Sexual Behavior, Adultery, and Divorce. starting with page 124, paragraph 3, in chapter 6 "Other Sexual Evils," under the heading "18. Child Abuse" As Hannah quoted, she writes: "Any youth who would submit her body to be handled by a man is in no way fit for the kingdom of heaven." (Page 125, paragraph 2.) That is simply despicable. Then she goes on to say, in the same paragraph: "Consider how you must dishonor and degrade the truth. Oh, God hates all such sins. How could you do this and at the same time be preaching the Word to sinners--yourself a sinner?" She was mainly concerned with the effect upon the reputation of Adventism! She then writes, "I knew this was your sin, but I knew also that if the truth was enthroned in your heart it would make this sin appear to you in its true enormity, for truth brought into the soul temple will expel lust and defilement from the heart. . . ." SDA "truth," NOT the Holy Spirit makes sin appear in its true enormity and expels lust and defilement from the heart???!! It doesn't appear to work very well! Also, notice that she says, "...if the truth was enthroned in your heart..." What? You're supposed to worship SDA "truth" as your god??! But did you notice that she "admits" (claims) she knew about this before but did NOTHING about it?!?! Of course she is probably lying saying she knew about it, but her "admission" is evil--to have known and done nothing?! Then she says, "Everlasting life is worth a lifelong, persevering, untiring effort." (Page 127) If that is not salvation by works then I don't know what is! Then after calling his sin a "crime" and an "abomination" and saying, "I tell you that it is not possible for you to act as a minister" and "How can I frame words to express the enormity of this awful sin? How can I present it in such a manner that you will no longer look upon it, as you have done, as no great wrong?" SHE THEN goes on to make it sound like he can continue being a Pastor because she doesn't want the SDA church to look bad!
It all boiled down to the reputatation of her "precious" cult! That's all she cared about!  There is another horrifying part to this letter which I will post about on a new thread. Jeremy |
