| Author | Message | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 146 Registered: 7-2004 |
As someone who was born and raised an SDA, ìprooftextingî was the only method of Bible study I knew for most of my life. Recently, I was reflecting on this aspect with my husband, Ric_b. I recall that during Bible class at academy, doctrinal study meant stringing together one text after another, jumping all over the place. At the time, I remember thinking God sure had made it difficult to know ìtruthî, because who could ever, on their own, find all the right texts to pull together? But I also really thought it was the only way. (Of course family worship while growing up read the Bible more in context, but it was still just snippets at a time with plenty of jumping around.) The first time I heard of ìprooftextingî was over 20 years ago, in Rickís criticism of SDA Bible study methods, and I couldnít understand what his problem was! I couldnít imagine why anyone would want to read an entire chapter when only one or two texts mentioned the subject being studied! It wasnít until recent years that I finally started reading the Bible like any other book, everything in context, whole books or several chapters at a time. Thatís when a whole lot of discrepancies between SDA beliefs and Bible teachings started coming to light. Was anyone else just as surprised upon discovering there was more to the Bible than stringing texts together? | ||
| Dd Registered user Username: Dd Post Number: 286 Registered: 7-2004 |
Sheryl, my first year of BSF was the study of Genesis. Everybody knows those stories...for goodnes sake, I told myself! But my friends kept nagging me to go and my son was finally old enough (2 years old) to attend and I was told it was better than any Sunday School (ie SS) class. So I went just for him. I WAS BLOWN AWAY!!! There is soooo much to those stories than Uncle Arthur ever talked about. Every week those stories came alive and pertinent to my life. There was so much of their lives (Eve, Enoch, Abraham, Joesph...) that were just like my life. So much I could apply and learn. 2 Timothy 3:16 - 17..."ALL Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work." It is no wonder why the Bible bored me! Sheryl, I never put it together before your question...it was the jumping around that did it (made it boring). I thought I was reading the Bible! Now that I know how wonderful it is, I can't find enough time for study. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1151 Registered: 12-2003 |
Oh, yes, Raven--it was when I started reading whole chapters and books at a time that I began to systematically see that the Bible didn't teach what ADventism said it taught. When we joined Trinity church, during the first two years we took Sunday morning classes taught by Elizabeth Inrig. The first class we took was called "Walk through the Old Testament", and we thought it would be a piece of cake--we'd know anything she had to tell us! NOT! We saw the Old Testament as a continuous flow of God's sovereignty and intervention in humanity's history, anchored in geographical locations, and we saw connections between the OT/Abraham down through the ages to Jesus that we had never even thought of before. Then we took "Walk Through the New Testament". That was just as eye-opening. Suddenly the formation and the history of the church was connected to Jesus' teaching, to the OT prophecies, and to our experience in an unbroken flow of history and God's power. The clincher was the next class we took: "How To Study the Bible". Again, we fairly smugly felt that we would be on top of this subject--but to our astonishment, she taught something we'd never learned before: Inductive Bible Study! What a concept! I'd heard about inductive Bible study, but I had never really known what that meant. It certainly had NEVER been taught to us in any of our combined 32 years in various Adventist elementary schools, academies and two colleges much less in church! That was where we learned the principles of studying passages in context, looking for the historical settings, the audience the book was written to, and ascertaining first what the book would have meant to the original audience. Once we understood its original intent and interpretation, then we would use a concordance (marginal references are a great shortcut!) to find other places the same author would have written about the same subjects. To whom did he write, and what was his intention in those writings? After following subjects through a single author's writings, then we would use a concordance to see where else in the testament other authors might have written about the same subject. To whom did they write, and what was their intent? How did other author's writings compare with the original passage's intent? Next, we would follow a subject into the other testament. If our original topic was something written by Paul, where in the OT was that same subject written about? To whom? What would they have understood it to mean? How did Paul's writing compare with or enlarge the understanding of the subject as mentioned in the OT? Finally, what lesson can we learn from this subject for ourselves? We learned that it is unsound to read a passage in the Bible and immediately try to think what it means for us. The Bible will never mean for us something different in intent from what it meant to the original audience. It may have different applications for us, but the passage's basic intent and value will not be different today than it was when it was written. Elizabeth stressed that the Holy Spirit who inspired the Bible is the same Holy Spirit who lives in us as Christ-followers. The Spirit in us will enable us to recognize the Spirit in the Bible, and as we study it with His help, it will become to us a living book. I've found that instead of the Bible being cumbersome and hard to reconcile, it has increasingly become for me a unified, complete whole that meshes seamlessly between the OT and the NT. I'm amazed how God reveals Himself and His reality and intent through the Bible. So yes, Raven--Adventist proof-texting is NOT Bible study. It's using the Bible for an agenda. Real Bible study exposes error and convicts my heart. I completely relate to your experience! Praise God for revealing His word to us!! Colleen | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 512 Registered: 7-2003 |
YES Raven! Absolutely!!! Like you I couldn't imagine how anyone could really study the Bible without help because there were just so many texts that needed to be strung together to "prove" anything. My eye openner came when the father I never knew died and my sister sent me his Bible. It's not that I'd never had a Bible before, it's just that I'd never had an interest before. I had just had a miraculous encounter with God (no time or space here for that story) so my interest in spiritual things was peaked. I also was curious about who my father was and thought I might be able to learn a bit about him by reading through his Bible and examining his notes and highlighting. Wow! Talk about shock! The first time I read through the NT, in context, with an open mind, without looking for proof texts; you could have knocked me over with a feather!!! The Bible became a whole different book for me, a fascinating book, when read book by book in context. I became obsessed (in a positive way) with Bible study. The more I read, studied, and prayed, the more I became absolutely convicted that many SDA doctrines couldn't be supported from scripture alone, which led to questioning the legitimacy of EGW, which opened the door for me to finally understand the enormous implications of the New Covenant. It all started with reading the Bible whole books at a time. Chris | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 513 Registered: 7-2003 |
REAL LIFE QUOTES I'VE HEARD IN THE LAST YEAR - An SDA pastor to his daughter- Daughter: "I've been studying the Bible with a group of friends." Dad: "Just make sure you use a Sabbath School lesson or a study guide from the ABC. People who try to study the Bible without those come up with wrong ideas." An SDA Father-in-law (FIL) to his son-in-law (SIL)- SIL: "I've started getting together with friends to study the Bible". FIL: "You better be careful with that Bible study. I've known a lot of people that studied themselves right out of THE CHURCH". A SDA mother to daughter- Mother: "Are you studying your Bible?" Daughter: "Not really, but I need to start." Mother: "Well just don't start with Paul." So what do these real life quotes say about SDA methodology? Chris | ||
| Thomas1 Registered user Username: Thomas1 Post Number: 154 Registered: 4-2002 |
Ah Yes, I remember when i first started reading the Bible through, front to back. The first time was when I was a teenager. My father had just died and I thought it a good idea. I remember thinking, "Why should I read this. Sister White has it much clearer and more in depth." I finished it, but didn't read it again for more than 25 years. When I did so again, I was more interested in what it said than what "she" said. I kept coming acrossed familiar texts, but they didn't say what I had always been taught they said. There was always stuff around them that changed the meaning! Sometimes the "familiar" text was only PART of a text, and the rest of the same text changed the meaning. It took four complete readings before I began to see what the Bible really said. I remember praying that the Holy Spirit would erase from my mind everything I had ever been taught, or thought should be, or wanted to be, and show me the truth as it really is. Sine that time, I have made a personal discipline of reading the complete Bible through twice each year. I have now read twelve different translations, several I have read numerous times. Each time, new and deeper truths are revealed to me. Chrisk, what you have stated above is all true! I indeed read myself out of "that" church, and into another church, which very closely follows what I have found of first Century Christianity. I have some rules of Bible reading. First, NEVER follow a "reading plan". They will give you the whole book, as the plan author wants you to read it. The Bible is greater than the sum of it's parts and is only available when read in it's entirety, front to back .. often. Second, if you don't understand the translation you use, find one that speaks to you. There are many very reliable and understandable translations. and Third, always let the Bible interpret itself. It is God's word and He is not the author of confusion. Adventists love to quote the text, "Line upon line, precept upon precept." As their authority for reading as they do. This is one of those texts which proves the falsehood, when it is read in context and complete. Is. 28:13. Therefore shall the word of Jehovah be unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, there a little; that they may go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken. Quite a recomendation for "proof texting" isn't it? Sola Scripstura <>< Thomas | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1152 Registered: 12-2003 |
Thomas, I've marveled over that "line upon line" quote, too. The verse clearly says that the "here a little, there a little" method of proof texting leads one into a snare. and breaks one. I can't fathom why Adventists use it to JUSTIFY their methods!! (It's one that our Adventist family used to quote to us when we were still trying to show them what the Bible really says...) Reading in context does lead one right out of the church--Chris, your real-life-quotes are priceless. Amazing. Colleen | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1267 Registered: 11-2002 |
I took a class from a retired Lutheran pastor in how to study the Bible. One of the first things he told our class was that we are to not take parts of texts and connect them with parts of texts from elsewhere in the Bible. If we did that we could come up with, "Thou shalt...commit adultry" and say the Bible told us to do that. I know SDA's who read their Bibles through every year. These people insist if anyone would read just the Bible they would become Sabbath-keepers and then eventually would come into the SDA church. These people read their Bibles chaper by chapter, one boo after another. They do not skip around. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 865 Registered: 3-2004 |
I started reading the NT the first of this year and finished it in June. It blew my mind to find out that God the Father loves us and Jesus does also. It blew my mind that Jesus did not say to keep the Sabbath to be saved. It just said to love him. The work of the Holy Spirit is fantastic. So I am reading the NT again. I started with Galatains, read Hebrews and am not sure what I will read next. I think I will go back to Matthew and read the NT again. When I do not understand a verse/verses I have 3 other translations, a concordance to help me. I like my Zondervan NIV because it give the group to whom the author wrote, the author and breaks up the book into what is in the book. I will be learning continually, but that is fine with me. During the last two weeks I thought I would not be able to go to the BSF starting this Monday evening. But now that I can drive and the immobilizer is off I can go. Thank you God. As I read God's word I see again and again how awesome he is. Diana | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 89 Registered: 7-2004 |
Dear Susan, I read your comment about SDA's who read their Bibles through regularly. I remember when I was in academy we were encouraged to do just that. I was well versed in the SDA doctrines so when my Bible reading brought me up against the fact that it was saying something that I thought it didn't say, I very quickly looked up that portion of scripture commentary in the corresponding EGW book. I won't even bring myself to call those books SOP now. Anyway, that is how I managed to allow myself to remain blind to the beautiful truths found all throughout God's beautiful love letter to all of us. I'll bet that I'm not the only SDA who ever used that method of Bible reading. It is probably still practiced today, even in those churches that profess not teach in accordance with EGW. She casts a long shadow even from the grave. I praise God that I've been able to see scripture without the blinders. Once again I will shout from the rooftops -- Give me Jesus. Belva | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1156 Registered: 12-2003 |
Belva, my method wasn't nearly as careful as yours. When I came to those passages that didn't make sense to my Adventist mind, I'd ponder them for a minute and then skip over them with no idea what to make of them. I realize I must have had an amazing capacity to just go into denial! Colleen | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 145 Registered: 7-2004 |
I am convinced that there are different "ways" that people read, even when they are reading through Scripture. Some people seem to read to simply say that they have read, and would have a hard time summarizing what they just finished without looking back at the material. If we don't make the effort to consider the implications and applications of what we have read, very little will stick with us. Other people avoid thinking about any "challenging" statements they find or look to a source for safe answers (SDAs frequently use EGW, others may use a pastor or a "safe" commentary). Personally, I have a growing list of texts that I don't understand. But I am finding that more rewarding than being spoonfed answers that try to make a systematic theology hold together by proposing explanations that do not the context of what is being said. | ||
| Praisegod Registered user Username: Praisegod Post Number: 181 Registered: 3-2004 |
Belva, I studied like you did. But as God was starting to break down the walls and open my eyes on various doctrines an incident happened. I was listening to the Bible on tape in my car and happened upon a text about not judging someone for what they eat--everything is clean. I was on my way to a conference and when I arrived I ended up sitting by an SDA pastor. While waiting for the conference to start, I mentioned the text and he looked it up and kind of hemmed and hawed around, saying he'd need to look into the original language. So when I returned home I went online to the White Estate. About then somehow I heard about EGW eating oysters (shrimp?? can't remember) and I didn't believe it so I asked that question too. I got back an admission from the White estate that the seafood incident was true but an explanation that it was a "health" issue and not related to the Levitical laws at that point. It also said the early SDAs had not totally figured out exactly which animals were "clean." Now these seemed incredible excuses to me. So I wrote back asking about getting a copy of the entire letter. They wouldn't release it. Then I asked about coming to visit and looking at the material there. First I was given an explanation about "remodeling" and with persisting, I was told that I would not be able to view it. That was the end of EGW for me. The entire deception broke open in one instant. The totally hilarious thing about it is that I'm a vegetarian and remain a vegetarian so it didn't really matter at all to me personally. God just happened to use that as one of the first steps in an incredible journey. Praise God... | ||
| Dd Registered user Username: Dd Post Number: 287 Registered: 7-2004 |
Diana, Check to make sure BSF starts this Monday night. I know that mine doesn't start back up until the second week. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1159 Registered: 12-2003 |
I love what John Piper says about those difficult texts, Ric_b. He says he believes they are in the Bible so we will go to God and ask Him to guide us and teach us the truth in them. They are there to turn us to God in surrender. I've thought of Piper's comments several times since I read them several months ago. While I haven't gotten whole explanations spelled out in detail, I have noticed that when I pray specifically about texts of doctrinal issues that confuse me, God does help me begin to integrate the difficult passages with other scriptures in an elightening way. It's hard to explain--it seems vague when I talk about it. I definitely have texts I don't understand, but somehow it's been helpful to think of Piper's observations and approach them as unresolved issues about which God wants me to seek Him and surrender. H-m-m-m- sounds kind of like life with Jesus in general! Colleen | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 90 Registered: 7-2004 |
One more post on this topic -- I had a friend who obviously had her gray matter inside her head. She told me that when she was reading scripture and she noticed that she had space out for a moment she always backed up a few verses and began reading again. She knew that the spacing out had notified her of a situation where her beliefs didn't match what she was reading. If she still felt confused she pulled out the Strong's Bible Commentary, and any other widely trusted Christian sources to help her study her way through the confusion. I've noticed that, as Colleen has stated, I don't always get complete resolution on the topic, but it does allow me to grow and learn new things. It also enlightens me to the areas in my life where I'd learned things wrong and need to relearn what them the way the Lord wants me to know them. Belva | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 91 Registered: 7-2004 |
One more post on this topic -- I had a friend who obviously had her gray matter inside her head. She told me that when she was reading scripture and she noticed that she had space out for a moment she always backed up a few verses and began reading again. She knew that the spacing out had notified her of a situation where her beliefs didn't match what she was reading. If she still felt confused she pulled out the Strong's Bible Commentary, and any other widely trusted Christian sources to help her study her way through the confusion. I've noticed that, as Colleen has stated, I don't always get complete resolution on the topic, but it does allow me to grow and learn new things. It also enlightens me to the areas in my life where I'd learned things wrong and need to relearn them the way the Lord wants me to know them. Belva | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 146 Registered: 7-2004 |
Colleen, I understand what you mean about it being hard to explain. I have come to cherish the texts that are a mystery to me, or don't fit neatly into my belief structure. They certainly cause me to pray more and study more. But they also let me know that there is still so much more to understand about God. The "list" of what I don't know has grown considerably since leaving the shelter of SDAism. But I no longer fear what I don't know, instead I view it with wonder. And I don't fear admitting that I don't know. |
