| Author | Message | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 897 Registered: 3-2004 |
I thought all of you would find this interesting. It looks to me that this young man did not get any counseling or got very poor counseling before he re enlisted in the Mrines. And it looks to me like the SDA church just left him out to hang by himself. Of course what could they do??? Diana U.S. National - AP Marine Jailed for Refusing to Pick Up Gun 41 minutes ago U.S. National - AP By ESTES THOMPSON, Associated Press Writer RALEIGH, N.C. - A soldier who re-enlisted with the Marines after ecoming a Seventh-Day Adventist has been jailed for refusing to pick up a gun. Cpl. Joel D. Klimkewicz, 24, of Birch Run, Mich., was sentenced last month in a court-martial to seven months in Camp LeJuene's brig. He also received a reduction in rank to private and a bad conduct discharge. Klimkewicz was charged with refusing to obey order two years to draw a weapon from his unit's armory for a training exercise in preparation for an Iraq deployment. In refusing the order, Klimkewicz told his superiors he was a conscientious objector and cited his new status as a member of the Seventh-Day Adventist Church. The church supports noncombatant status for its members who serve in the military, but leaves such decisions to a member's individual conscience. Klimkewicz joined an Adventist church in Jacksonville before he re-enlisted in 2003. He sought conscientious objector status, which was rejected last March. "Conscientious objector status has to be granted," said Capt. Jeff Pool, a spokesman for the 2nd Marine Division at Lejeune. "Since his package was denied, it was just simply disobeying an order. That is what he was charged with." The timing of Klimkewicz's conversion and re-enlistment were issues in his case, church attorney Mitchell Tyner said Tuesday. The Marine Corps said he should have known better than to re-enlist after joining the church, he said. "Marines are not big on this kind of thing," Tyner said in a telephone interview from the church office in Silver Spring, Md. "The whole thing comes down to the timing." Tyner said Klimkewicz was to be one of 10 troops sent to Iraq as replacements for other Marines. He told authorities he would work removing mines in Iraq, but did not want to carry a weapon. | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1291 Registered: 11-2002 |
I do not want to come across as a coldhearted crass bi**h but really...that Marine REINLISTED. Therefore having already served a term in the marines he knew that the job of a marine is to bear arms in order to protect and defend his country. Frankly, I hope the guy does get courtmarshaled. He had the option of not reinlisting and he chose to do so, so sc**w him. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 899 Registered: 3-2004 |
Susan_2, You do not mince any words. I laughed when I read what you wrote above and I felt the same thing when I read this. It was sent to me by an SDA cousin, who by the way, married a non SDA, whose oldest son was killed in Vietnam and another son (I think) was killed while in the military. She, I think, wanted everyone to pray for him. I do pray for him, that he will get to know Jesus. He knew what he was getting into having been in the Marines. Diana | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1292 Registered: 11-2002 |
Recently I was in line at the supermarket. The tabloid headlines had something to do with the military and this sparked the conversation among us oldsters in line. I mentioned I have a son serving in the military. The man behind me was a veteran. Then the lady behind him told us this story (Diana, I think you'll really crack-up while reading this.). Her daughter was a senior in high school last year. Was 17 years old. Always had dreamed of becomming a pre-school teacher or working with babies or little kids in some capasity. Then her daughter came home from school last year and told her mom the army recuiter was at school and she has now decided to join the army. She told her mom she was going to train for infantry. Turned out when the recuiter realized the girl thought infantry was working with infants he told her he really didn't think the military would be the best carreer choice for her. The story does have a happy ending as the girl is now attending the local junior college and is studying child development so she can work at a pre-school. You should have seen/heard us oldsters whooping and laughing in the supermarket line when the lady shared that story of her daughter with us. (And, this has absoutely nothing to do with being Former Adventist. It's just a story I wanted to share.) | ||
| Pw Registered user Username: Pw Post Number: 244 Registered: 6-2004 |
Can you imagine this Marine in Iraq? Being on a dangerous mission and him saying "No, today is the sabbath and I can't fight the enemy, but have to rest". He is hardly being persecuted for his faith since he knew what the requirements were before he re-enlisted. And no SDA council will bail him out either. What a joke. | ||
| Vchowdhury1 Registered user Username: Vchowdhury1 Post Number: 105 Registered: 7-2004 |
I agree with you, Susan. Its funny how some sda's try to con their way into certain jobs that have certain requirements, and then try to pull the conscientious objector status like this Marine, or the "I didn't understand what the word Flexible meant" like that sda flight attendant who told her supervisors at her initial interview that she did not mind having flexible hours, than after she was hired, she tried to "weasle" her way out of working on Saturdays by saying that she did not understand the word "flexible". Give me a break! Also, regarding this "conscientious objector" thing, I never understood it. Soldiers have DIED so that sda's and ALL of the rest of us can have the freedom to worship as they please. Why is it alright for SOME people to fight for this freedom that ALL of us enjoy? In the Scriptures, there were many people who took up arms for the freedom of their people (e.g. Joshua, David, etc.) So, why do some religions think its not okay now? If it weren't for our armed military, we would have no freedoms. In fact the United States would still be under England if everyone were sda or jw and refused to fight in 1776, or we would be under Germany if all soldiers were sda or jw and refused to fight in WWII. Then, who the heck would have been dictating our religious views then? Someone has to do it, and I think its unfair for some religions to have the "we'll just let those guys do it" attitude when it comes to picking up arms in war. | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 218 Registered: 10-2004 |
It's also interesting to think about the fact that GOD forced the Israelites to fight in war on the Sabbath and break the Sabbath. So much for it being a moral law! Jeremy | ||
| Pw Registered user Username: Pw Post Number: 245 Registered: 6-2004 |
It's just another way the SDA's try to get the world to revolve around their lifestyle and try to look holy. | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1296 Registered: 11-2002 |
About the JW's-they are even more spun on this topic than the SDA's. I know this because I have many in-laws who are JW. The Star Spangled Banner came on the radio at my house one day. I told the little niece-in-law to stand up and show proper respect for our national anthum. She arragently looked at me and said, "I don't have to". I said back to her, "It's my house and you do too have to". She said,"I'm JW and my grandma told me not to". I told her, "Then you tell your grandma I'm not babysitting you anymore". They never came back. Those JW's are total users of the system. The not only will not defend our country, they deny the fact that others have given them any freedoms at all. They will come right out and say their freedoms do not have anything to do with the sacrifice of sinful humans but are only given to them by Jehovah. The same grandma I mentioned above is extremely hostile towards anything patrotic, yet she searches out the community looking for people with a military i.d. and asks them to take her shopping at the base stores so she doesn't have to pay sales tax. That entire family is commtting mega-welfare and housing authority fraud so they can have more time to "proclaim the good news" "door knocking", and not work to pay their expenses. It's a cult. All the main initial churches are cults, that's the JW, the LDS and th SDA, what I call the initial churches. And, they all sprung up here in the USA at the same general part of the country around the same time period. And, all three claim to be the only true church that God put in place after an abstance in world affairs, that they can trace their roots back to the beginning of Christianity. | ||
| Pw Registered user Username: Pw Post Number: 248 Registered: 6-2004 |
Susan...isn't it ironic? They condemn everthing America stands for and yet want to reap it's benefits without making any contributions to it. I know how you feel about the JW's, I work with a couple and they are really judgmental towards anything related to a holiday or patriotic. And to think they branched out from the SDA movement is enough to make you shudder. | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1298 Registered: 11-2002 |
PW, go to www.watchhetower.org. It's a very interesting website. So is silentlambs.org. Silentlambs is about all the pediphiles in the JW organization and how the organization won't report this activity to the civil authorities. They are really out there! They say since the Bible says the accused has to have two or more wittnesses to a wrong committed that to report someone to the authorities they need to have at least two wittnesses to the abuse. Well, everyone knows child molesters don't have two or more wittnesses when they do their violation on their victums. So, esentially the JW organization gives these sorts of perverts a free pass. | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 154 Registered: 7-2004 |
I can appreciate someone who is upfront about being a conscientious objector and asking upfront to serve their country in another way. Many very brave, honorable, and patriotic people have done just that. But volunteering for a combat position, taking the pay without objection for years, and then having an objection when you are asked to do the job you choose and have been paid for is neither honorable nor brave. Are SDAs actually proud of this guy? | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1301 Registered: 11-2002 |
You can read the Desmond Doss story online. It is very interesting. He is a true patriot and a real American hero. There are some SDA's who truly do qualify as heros. I have attended a lot of Quaker services, oherwise known as The Society of Friends. Although the Quakers are true CO's during times of conflict they put themselves in great harms way. They will deliver the mail and supplies to all warring sides. They do not chicken out. The Quaker meetings I attend are referred to as Unprogramed. It's group meditation. We sit in a circle for an entire hour in total silence. If someone really has something profound to share that is allowed. Then after this we have a simple meal and a discussion about a topic that is important to someone. During this discussin each person is allowed to make only one comment and then the weekly ordeal is over. Berry Black was on tv yesterday. It was a live broadcast of the senate. He gave the prayer. He does not refer to Jesus or the Holy Spirit in public prayers. Why is that? It is my understanding that the SDA orgnization is really trying had to get more SDA military chaplins into the military. I will not give a personal opinion about this. I will only say that have heard and read the SDA's are trying to get more chaplins into the military. | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 157 Registered: 7-2004 |
They need some place for the pastors, with so many shrinking churches and the recent pastoral layoffs, it is a great deal if they can get someone else to "pay" for these pastors. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1195 Registered: 12-2003 |
Ha! Somehow that's almost plausible, Ric! | ||
| Vchowdhury1 Registered user Username: Vchowdhury1 Post Number: 106 Registered: 7-2004 |
Susan, those Society of Friends meetings don't sound to bad at all. I think more people who call themselves "religious/spiritual" need to sit down, be silent, and let the Holy Spirit speak to them. They might be very surprised at what the Holy Spirit has to say. I know I did. Thats why I'm now ex-sda  --Valerie |
