| Author | Message | ||
| 4drian Registered user Username: 4drian Post Number: 37 Registered: 11-2004 |
I'm hoping you guys can help me with a little research project. I would like to have a list of direct references to the 10 commandments in the NT. I'm not talking about references to the law (meaning the Pentateuch) or the law and the prophets (meaning the entire OT), but specific references to the 10 commandments. I know someone must have this already so if you do, please post it. Thanks, -Adrian (vlad) | ||
| Bob Registered user Username: Bob Post Number: 12 Registered: 7-2000 |
Adrian, I am not sure this is what you are seeking, but it may help. The 10 Commandments Reiterated in the New Testament: 1. Acts 14:14,15 2. 1 John 5:21 3. James 5:12 4. (No Sabbath commandment in the N.T.) 5. Eph. 6:1 6. Matt. 5: 21,22 7. 1 Cor. 6:9,10 8. Eph. 4:28 9. Colossians 3:9 10. Eph. 5:3-5 There are many other N.T. scriptures that could be used in addition to these. Bob | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1270 Registered: 11-2002 |
Don't you mean a reference to the 10 Commandments, not a text of each one? | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 264 Registered: 4-2000 |
Susan, The list has a passage for nine of the Ten Commandments that are reiterated in the New Testament. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1274 Registered: 11-2002 |
I think I don't understand the question. However, I do know there are several places in the NT of lists of how folks need to behave and there are several lists of things to avoid. In none of these lists is the weekly seventh-day, Sabbath mentioned. I remember wondering as a kid growing up how come this was and I'd ask the grown-ups in my life. Everytime I'd get the same answer. The answer was this; It wasn't neessary for the writers of the NT to put the Sabbathin there as a have-to because it was so obivious that no one who read his Bible could miss it. I was taught that anyone who read is Bible and couldn't plainly see the Sabbath in th NT was just too stupid to even call himself a Christian. Yet, even growing up I believed if it was such an important thing for Christians then it would be made very clear to anyone with even a mild interest in reading the Bible to find out what it says. As far as the passages of the have-tos and the should-nots, I was told as a child the Sabbath was implied in those passages. In fact, those are the very passages my SDA kin use to prove the Sabbath is taught in the NT AND IT ISN'T EVEN MENTIONED! | ||
| 4drian Registered user Username: 4drian Post Number: 38 Registered: 11-2004 |
Bob, Thanks Susan, I was originaly looking for references to the decalogue as a whole. I have searched the internet and it appears that there are NO references to the decalogue in the NT. There are however references to individual commandments. I have found a list with some more information than what Bob posted. Here it is: -------------------------------- The 1st and 2nd commandment- which prohibit the worship of other Gods (50 times) and idols are repeated (12 times) Acts 15:29, 17:16: Rom.1:25; 1 Cor.6:9-10, 10:14: 1 Jn.5:21: Rev.21:8, 22:15. The 3rd commandment of reverencing his name not to take it in vain (4 times ) Ex.20:7 is also repeated in the New Testament Mt.5:33; James 5:12. The 4th commandment- ? Where do the apostles teach to keep the Sabbath? Its missing even for the Gentiles who had no concept of the Jewish laws would need to be instructed. the 5th commandment- to respect your parents is also repeated (6 times) Mt.15:4-9: Eph.6:1-3 and Rom.13:1-7. The 6th commandment- of forbidding murder Ex.20:13 is in the New Testament (4 times). Rom.13:9; Mt.19:18 and the true intent is explained in Mt.5:21-22 The 7th commandment- prohibiting adultery and any sexual sin Ex.20:14 is also found ( 12 times) in Acts.15:20; Rom.2:22, 13:13: 1 Cor.5:11, 6:9, 13,15, 18: 10:8: Eph.5:3,11-12. The 8th commandment- forbids one to be dishonest, stealing,Ex.20:15 is found in the New Testament (6 times) Rom. 2:21 Eph. 4:28: 1Thess.4:6: Jms.5:4; Mk.10:19; Lk.18:20. The 9th commandment- condemning a false witness, to lie Ex.20:16 is found in the New Testament (4 times) Mt.15:19,19:18; Lk.3:14 and 1 Tim.1:9-10. The 10th commandment- tells us not to covet Ex.20:17 is repeated (9 times) in Mk.7:21-23; Lk.12:15,33-34; Rom.1:29, 13:9 1 Cor.5:11; 6:10; Eph.5:3. -------------------------------- Source: http://www.letusreason.org/7thAd18.htm Although I can find no reference to the decalogue in the NT, there are implied references to the ten commandments in many verses that state, in no uncertain terms that the law as a whole was abrogated; nailed to the cross. Here are a few examples: Rom 7:4,6-7; Eph 2:15; Col 2:14 Thanks for your help. If anyone wants to post further information on this subject, please do so. It might be of great use to the many lurkers that I suspect follow these threads. -Adrian (vlad) | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 267 Registered: 4-2000 |
Adrian, Second Corinthians 3:7 (NASU) is a very clear reference to the Decalogue as follows: "But if the MINISTRY OF DEATH, IN LETTERS ENGRAVED ON STONES, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was." Paul summarizes by saying in verse 10: "For indeed what HAD glory, IN THIS CASE HAS NO GLORY BECAUSE OF THE GLORY THAT SURPASSES IT." Speaking from personal experience, I can affirm the reality of a "veil" lying over my my heart (verse 15). The best news is found in verse 16 as follows: "but whenever a person TURNS TO THE LORD, the veil is taken away." Praise God! Dennis Fischer | ||
| 4drian Registered user Username: 4drian Post Number: 39 Registered: 11-2004 |
Awesome, Thanks a lot Dennis. I had read that verse but didn't remember it. I'll add it to my collection. -Adrian (vlad) | ||
| 4drian Registered user Username: 4drian Post Number: 40 Registered: 11-2004 |
I just looked at my bible. I had 2 Cor 5-18 underlined and "starred" for extra emphasis; yet I didn't remember it at all. Funny how the memmory works (or doesn't work).  Thanks again Dennis, That's a really good one. | ||
| 4drian Registered user Username: 4drian Post Number: 41 Registered: 11-2004 |
Oops... I meant to say 2 Cor 3:5-18 | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 211 Registered: 10-2004 |
Verse 3 of chapter 5 mentions "tablets of stone" also. Hebrews 9:4 also refers to "the tables of the covenant;" I can't think of any other direct references in the NT to only the Ten Commandments right now. Jeremy | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 443 Registered: 1-2003 |
This is what was recently posted on CARM from an SDA there...it really irked me. "Unfortunately..that day will not precede the advent of our Saviour......It appears to me that an end time conflict is brewing....and evidence can be found on forums and in chat rooms as never before......My wife and I discuss end time events with alot of people in our community and now more than ever the discussion always ends up gravitating towards whether or not God's law is relevant today. The central issue being discussed among Christians in this age is whether or not God's law is relevant today.....One side says no..lets toss it out...the other side says we will keep the commandments of God.......This battle within Christendom has intensified within the last century and I anticipate that it will only increase in intensity as we near the advent of our King of Kings. As we see this being played out.....it shows us that indeed prophecy is being fulfilled right under our noses. Jesus is coming very very soon....Which side will you be on? Are you ready?" SDA Pheeki: I told him that believers who are sealed with the Holy Spirit don't have to fear the future or "being ready" because we are sealed for redemption. It irks me so much! This last Sunday, I went to a non-denom. church and the sermon was on breaking bad habits and he talked about binding God's law around your neck...etc. I wanted to ask what his stance on the law was...fulfilled or not?!?! I really like the church, the music is great and it is warm and loving...I just don't know about the theology of it. Anyone else having this trouble? | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 648 Registered: 7-2003 |
Pheeki, I had a similar situation the day after Christmas. The associate pastor spoke. His main point was to not over pack your life with activities, leave room for God...his text, amongst others, was Ex 20:8-11. In one of his 4 concluding points, he said said we need to remember the sabbath (whether it was Saturday or Sunday...since we have services on both) to give some balance to our lives. I was in the back room with the pastor (and others) chatting when I heard him quoting Ex 20...and asked what on earth he was preaching about. The pastor said the sabbath. I said well that will open the door for the 7th day adventists. He said, you know they're wrong about a lot of things, but they're right about some things too. I couldn't let it go. I started telling him some of their fundamental beliefs and he didn't know, said he knew an SDA once and he never said anything like that. I told him it was in their fundamental beliefs if they wanted to check it out. Overall, the sermon was not a legalistic "remember the sabbath day...only on the 7th day" or any sort of transferrance, just the benefits of taking time for rest and relaxation. But I just grit my teeth when I sat through the sermon. I knew an SDA would chew him up for lunch. I'd still like to talk to him directly some time, but given everything else I've got going on, decided to put it on the back burner for a bit. | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 147 Registered: 7-2004 |
I have been doing some research on the various ìConfessions of Faithî, in order to see which denominations are most closely aligned to the New Testamentís position on the role of the Law for a Christian. I found that the Westminster Confession of Faith and the Baptist Confession of Faith see the same ìmoralî and ìceremonialî distinction that SDAís make, only they teach that the seventh-day Sabbath was transferred to the first day. It reminded me of Greg Taylorís statement in his recent book, that SDAís are essentially still arguing with the Puritans over which day is to be observed as the Sabbath. I was pleasantly surprised to see that the Augsburg Confession is saying exactly what we as former SDAís are saying. So if anyone tries to tell you that our understanding of the Sabbath is a new twist on interpretation and canít be supported by any previous theologians, you can point out that it is plainly a part of the 17th Century Augsburg Confession. Here is an excerpt from Article 28: "What, then, are we to think of the Sunday and like rites in the house of God? Ö Of this kind is the observance of the Lord's Day, Easter, Pentecost, and like holy- days and rites. For those who judge that by the authority of the Church the observance of the Lord's Day instead of the Sabbath-day was ordained as a thing necessary, do greatly err. Scripture has abrogated the Sabbath-day; for it teaches that, since the Gospel has been revealed, all the ceremonies of Moses can be omitted. And yet, because it was necessary to appoint a certain day, that the people might know when they ought to come together, it appears that the Church designated the Lord's Day for this purpose; and this day seems to have been chosen all the more for this additional reason, that men might have an example of Christian liberty, and might know that the keeping neither of the Sabbath nor of any other day is necessary. There are monstrous disputations concerning the changing of the law, the ceremonies of the new law, the changing of the Sabbath-day, which all have sprung from the false belief that there must needs be in the Church a service like to the Levitical, and that Christ had given commission to the Apostles and bishops to devise new ceremonies as necessary to salvation. These errors crept into the Church when the righteousness of faith was not taught clearly enough." It's very frustrating to see it, but I really think the majority of churches today are so firmly rooted in the Puritan movement, that they can't get past the legalism to uplift Jesus only. | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 152 Registered: 7-2004 |
Pheeki, The post in question was from our friend "Truthseeker2004". He goes by a different name on CARM. | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 518 Registered: 7-2003 |
I too have been frustrated that there are a number pastors and even some whole denominations that teach the Roman Catholic and Puritan idea that 4th commandment is binding on Christians, but has been transferred to the 1st day through the authority of the Church. Of the three views of the Sabbath one might logically take (continuance, transference, or fulfillment), I find the transference view the hardest to support Biblically. If you think about it, the transference view suffers from all the Biblical weaknesses that the SDA Continuance view does (i.e. the NT never applies any Sabbath command to New Covenant Christians, represents the Sabbath as a shadow fulfilled in Christ, at the best seems to make Sabbath observance optional, and at the worst ties the obeservance of holy days to Galationsim). But the Continuance view is also saddled with the added baggage of needing to prove a day change besides. I just don't see the logic in the Catholic and Puritain views. I'll go on the record here as saying something positive about SDA theology: Applying the 4th Commandment to Christians is easier to defend than applying an altered 4th commandment to Christians. | ||
| Praisegod Registered user Username: Praisegod Post Number: 187 Registered: 3-2004 |
Raven, did you find denominations that subscribe to the Augsburg Confession? I didn't realize the problem with the Westminster Confession until on forums.christianity.com where it came up and I was quite appalled. I ended up starting a poll -- Why do you worship on Sunday? And you can see peopleís confusion. My question nowódonít other churches teach about covenants? Wouldnít they get it straight if they understood the New Covenant? Actually, it seems a lot of them personally deny the WC but seem to claim to agree with it. Confusing for sure. Right now thereís a thread under Religion and Doctrine on forums.Christianity.com on the old and new covenants. Actually, several threads heavily deal with SDA topics and Iíd like to invite more people to try that forum if they donít have their hands full with CARM. Iíve appreciated those of you who have become involved. Praise GodÖ | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 519 Registered: 7-2003 |
Praisegod, I've come to believe that an understanding of the New Covenant is one of the great gifts we've been given as former SDAs. There really are some blessings that have been given to us through our involvement with Adventism. I think we have the oportunity to share these blessings with other Christians. I do not mean to suggest in any way that all other Christians misunderstand the New Covenant nor would I even go so far as to say most other Christians misunderstand. I would like to think that a substantial majority of Christians understand that we are not under the Old Covenant Law, any part of it, but clearly there are a fair number of Christians who are confused. Legalism still exist in the modern day Church just as it did the Church of Paul's time. Perhaps God will choose to use each of us in some small way in our day as He used Paul in a greater way in his day. Chris | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 148 Registered: 7-2004 |
Wouldn't it be nice if there were a list of subscribing denominations with each Confession? I'm still looking, but so far I've found that the Lutherans subscribe to the Augsburg Confession. I have tried it several times, but I just cannot handle liturgical services, and there don't seem to be many non-liturgical Lutheran services. I noticed the Methodist church says they don't subscribe to any of the Confessions, which at least means they don't go along with the Westminster Confession! I don't think a church necessarily needs to subscribe to a particular Confession--after all, the Bible should be our only rule of faith. But if a church does subscribe to a particular Confession or Creed, that can tell you a lot about where they're coming from. I think there needs to be a concentrated effort to educate churches to the reality of the New Covenant, because that understanding does seem to be sparse out there. | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1282 Registered: 11-2002 |
Raven, I LOVE the litergy. Isn't it always wonderful reading on here how unique and different each of our personalities are and the types of worship services we are each drawn to? I hold my earthly church membership (as opposed to my heavenly membership) at a local Lutheran Church. I attend the ELCA. There are quite a # of various Lutheran denominations. In fact, you can go to the Bible Sabbath Association website and even find some seventh-day Sabbath observing Lutheran churches. They are mostly in the Minnesota area. However, all the writings of Martin Luther are available on the internet to read. The Luther movie is now out. Blockbuster has it. I am now reading several books of the writings of Martin Luther because the pastor wants me to teach the catachism to the kids in the upcoming class. Whaddaya think? Should I tell my SDA kin I will be teaching the childrens catachism class? (No, I don't think so.) |
