| Author | Message | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1172 Registered: 12-2003 |
Richard found an announcement on the website for the Center For Creative Ministry. This Adventist organization is conducting a widespread drive to train Adventists to "effectively connect with people we know and love who are now taking a break from active church attendance." (Read that "from active SDA church attendance.) Here are the three leading questions designed to pique people's interest in attending one of their seminars: "Have you wanted to meet with other Adventists who share your passion for reconnecting with missing members?" "Do you want to hear storeis from people excited about the congregation they found that was much different than the one they left?" "Would you like to know what churches do right in attracting people who are taking a break from active church attendance?" They have planned seminars in what appears to be every union in North America for 2004-2005. (A couple have already occurred.) They plan to cover these six topics: 1. Learn what's happening in reconnecting ministries across N America 2. Hints for organizing a visitation program 3. Hear the 7 steps that make for highly effective reconnecting churches 4. Set realistic goals for this ministry 5. Go home with 10 tips for reaching missing members 6. The first, last and every step in between requires prayer, which we will do Here are the scheduled meetings and venues: Southern Union Forest Lake Academy January 8, 2005 NPUC Walla Walla College church January 29, 2005 MidAmerica Union College View Church February 12, 2005 Southwestern Union Arlington Church (near Dallas/Ft.Worth) February 26, 2005 Atlantic Union College Church March 5, 2005 Canadian Union Open Door Church (Abbotsford, BC) April 9, 2005 Lake Union South Bend First Church April 23, 2005 Columbia Union Beltsville Church (near Washington, DC and Baltimore) October 23, 2004 (already past) Pacific Union Thousand Oaks Church November 20, 2004 (already past) I've never known the Adventist church to be so assertive in attempting to reconnect with former members as it has become in the past couple of years. I'm convinced that with the advent of the internet, the Adventist church lost a huge portion of its power/control because it's no longer possible really to keep the secrets. The truth is being told, and people have access to it. Some people will respond to efforts to reach out and bring them back. They have unfinished business and deep ties to the church they don't even understand. But I believe that more and more people are having to make decisions about their response to the facts. I really see a significant part of our calling as formers to be to pray for the truth to become known and for people to be able to freely see and choose the freedom of the true gospel. I think people all over--not just connected to Adventism--are beginning to polarize. They're having either to accept or reject the truth about Jesus. They can be either "tolerant" or committed. The Adventist church, contrary to popular arguments, is not changing. They're just changing their PR tactics and their public descriptions of themselves. They still are not close to admitting the egregious errors of the IJ, a false prophet, the Sabbath as a salvational issue, etc. Praise God for showing us truth and for giving us the work of speaking for Him! Colleen | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 520 Registered: 7-2003 |
I just found the flyer for the training event being held at the SDA church we used to attend here in Lincoln. I found one particular line very irritating. Would anyone like to guess which one? ******************************************************** Do you have a friend who has quit attending church? Three out of four Seventh-day Adventists report that they know someone who used to be active in church and no longer participates. Often it is their own young adult children or people they attended church school with. Research shows that there are more than a million former and inactive Adventists across the country.* What are you going to do about? What is your local church doing about it? It is a profound tragedy that people who know the truth, who still celebrate the Sabbath at home or in their hearts, no longer feel connected with a congregation. Often there is a deep pain. Reconnecting Ministries is a movement that is making a difference! Come and learn how you can help ... February 12, 2005ó10 a.m. to 5 p.m. Reconnecting Ministries Training Event College View Church 4015 S. 49th Street, Lincoln, NE 68506 PH: 402-486-2880 E-mail: cvchurch@ucollege.edu Host: Pastor Keith Jacobson Speakers will include ... Paul Richardson, Reconnecting Ministries coordinator for the North American Division Keith Jacobson, senior pastor of the College View Church Norma Sahlin, communication director for the Center for Creative Ministry Provided by the Center for Creative Ministry, the official Reconnecting Ministries resource center of the Seventh-day Adventist Church in North America and cosponsored by the MidAmerica Union Conference of the Seventh-day Adventist Church There is no registration fee! For more information, go to www.creativeministry.org Lunch will be provided; please let us know how many are coming at 402-486-2880. *Full report available at (800) 272-4664. Ask for The Dropout Problem in the Adventist Church. | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 654 Registered: 7-2003 |
Well, I find it interesting that people are "celebrating the Sabbath", but not celebrating Christ??? As a matter of fact, there was not a single mention of the relationship with Christ. And though their may be pain in leaving, I don't imagine it's the kind of pain that they are trying to tell people there is. Anywhere close?? | ||
| Dd Registered user Username: Dd Post Number: 294 Registered: 7-2004 |
Melissa, I had the exact same thought. I know Paul Richardson personally. His attitude, when hearing him talk about these seminars, is very difficult for me. He hits me as being very "proud" to have such a "lofty" position of reaching out "to these poor lost souls that have been so overlooked for so many years" (yes, I say that with sarcasim!). I know he means well and I don't mean to be harsh but I have never heard him say in a conversation or from the platform the percentage of those who have left the church and have a thriving relationship with Jesus. He spouts off all kinds of numbers/percentages of how many have left, how many will leave, how many are coming back, how many Reconnecting Ministries has brought back into the fold... but NEVER even hints that there is a percentage of those who no longer attend SDA churches that are being spiritually feed at non-SDA churches. It is all about the SDA/Sabbath message and nothing about the truths of God's grace and love. I | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 521 Registered: 7-2003 |
Yes Melissa, it was that whole line that bugged me: "It is a profound tragedy that people who know the truth, who still celebrate the Sabbath at home or in their hearts, no longer feel connected with a congregation. Often there is a deep pain." But in particular it was especially this: "It is a profound tragedy that people who know the truth..." I have become rather weary of hearing people (mainly our relatives) say to my wife and I, "I just don't see how you could do this when you know better, when you know the TRUTH!" They assume that I know and believe Adventism to be "THE TRUTH", but I have chosen to purposely live in oposition to THE TRUTH. Nothing I say about the wonderful realtionship I have with Jesus now, nothing I say about my love for the Word, nothing I say about my commitment to following Christ wherever He leads makes any difference or changes their opinion of why I left. In their eyes, I will always be someone who is knowingly and willfully going against what I know to be right. It's a little crazy making. Chris | ||
| Pw Registered user Username: Pw Post Number: 240 Registered: 6-2004 |
All sabbath and no Jesus. Like celebrating Christmas without honoring Christ. Just another day in life. Chris...I think we all can relate to your quote above. They just can't fathom a relationship with Jesus outside keeping a sabbath day. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1174 Registered: 12-2003 |
Amen, Chris--crazy-making is the term for it! I'm also bothered by the assumption that former Adventists are not attending church. There's a whole reality that they're not acknowledging. We got a testimony recently (soon to be posted on the website) in which the author states that he has never personally known a former Adventist who left because of bad treatment. Those in his acquaintance have left because of doctrine. Those who leave because of conscience, facts, and Jesus are ignored--or at least their testimony is ignored. It's definitely crazy-making. Colleen | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 890 Registered: 3-2004 |
Amen to the "crazy making" thinking. They ignore those of us who have left because of EGW and her being a false prophet, they ignore what we know of the Sabbath and the New Covenant, about Jesus and He is all a person needs. It is as if they ignore it, it is not there, because they cannot be wrong. Am I understanding it all correctly??? Lets continue to pray for them Friday at sundown and Saturday at 1 PM, Pacific time and the corresponding time in the various time zones. God is still in charge and remember, all things work together for good and where 2 or three are gathered in my name there I am in the midst of them. At prayer times we are not together physically, but spiritually we are together and God is in our midst. He will prevail. He is awesome. Diana | ||
| Goldenbear Registered user Username: Goldenbear Post Number: 35 Registered: 12-2004 |
All to often the church doesn't know how to deal with those who leave the church because of a doctinal basis. If you have the "truth" there is nothing more to talk about. It is easier to deal with those who are just not going to church. Normally people don't attend church because they no longer want to be bothered (or have other interests, or just want to not get up). People LEAVE the church over doctrinal differences. Adventist can deal with non attendance, not doctrinal differences. Probably the most common thing I have always heard is people who quit attending never attend another church, they stil know the Sabbath is the "truth". | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1178 Registered: 12-2003 |
Goldenbear, historically I believe your comment is correct. Most people who quit going to the SDA church never attend another. I believe the difference here is that those people don't officially "leave"--as in have their names removed from membership. They just quietly drift away. Because they believe the SDA church is the only true church, though, they aren't free to go anywhere else, as Jan Mace said in her story in the last Proclamation. They are still "Adventist" in their deepest hearts, even though they may be in complete apostasy. Those who actually leave officially, though, I believe usually do so for doctrinal reasons, although I can't actually prove it. You're right; they don't know how to deal with people who claim to have left by studying their way out. Colleen | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 149 Registered: 7-2004 |
Shortly after we left the SDA church, a member friend told us he was very concerned, because he had never known of anyone leaving the SDA church with children who didn't come to regret that decision at a later point. I told him we may be the first he's known that won't fit that category! | ||
| Pw Registered user Username: Pw Post Number: 241 Registered: 6-2004 |
Couldn't have said it better. You know, on another site there's a heated debate between SDA's and the former SDA's. I'm sure they would be more compassionate to those who just quit going to church rather than those who studied their way out and now attend another church. They really hate the fact when their beloved Ellen White is put to the test and accuse the formers of being ones who had the truth and then rejected it so they could go along with the wordly teachings of the false churches. The crazy thing is, many of the SDA's who post have no clue about the entire history, writings or beliefs of what they are connected to. Some say the IJ is no longer binding while another poster claimed her instructor had new revelations about it. Others from different countries claim White has no influence on their beliefs and they don't even read her writings, yet in the U.S., her words are almost on par with the Bible itself. Talk about inconsistencies! | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1181 Registered: 12-2003 |
You're so right, PW. And the truth is, they are ALL bound to her because she gave the "I was shown..." authority to every Adventist doctrine. The diminshed deity of Jesus (which Adventists cannot see), the IJ, the Sabbath as an eternal thing (no one or nothing but God Himself is eternal--everything else is created and subject to Him), the necessity of the 4th commandment and thus Christians' adherence to the law as their authority, the condition of man in death, no real hell--you name it, every Adventist in the world is bound to Ellen by their adherence to even ONE Adventist doctrine. They may say they never read her and she doesn't matter, but they are deceived by her spirit of deception, and it claims them as well. (Goodness, perhaps I should step off my soapbox now! It's amazing how much emotion those Adventist circular arguments generate in me!) Colleen | ||
| Vchowdhury1 Registered user Username: Vchowdhury1 Post Number: 103 Registered: 7-2004 |
...And, don't forget the FINANCIAL aspect of wanting to "re-connect" with former members. Bring old members back = Tithes & Offerings increase = More money for the sda conferance. I don't want to me mean and say that this is the ONLY reason. But, I'm sure its one of the motivating factors. --Valerie | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 523 Registered: 7-2003 |
Yes, the financial impact is very real. I have several friends here in Lincoln that all left for the sake of the Gospel within 1-2 years of each other. Besides tithes and offerings, those families represent 8 children taken out of the local SDA grade school. That has to hurt. Chris | ||
| Praisegod Registered user Username: Praisegod Post Number: 192 Registered: 3-2004 |
I wonder, though, if the financial impact of regaining the missing isn't lessening. It seems that more and more Adventists are wise to the top heavy hierarchy of the denominational tithe system. From what I gather tithe is going down, proportionately speaking. At least in many places in the US. I know for a fact that even their own pastors express anger at the system that drains the local church of needed finances to keep all the various conference offices going and often with the latest model computers etc. Praise God... | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1289 Registered: 11-2002 |
Celebrating the Sabbath vs. Celebrattng Jesus. The Review has been pushing its Sew One Billion a lot lately. That is intended to place one billion pieces of information at the doors of North, Central and South Americans this year inviting them to attend the local SDA church. The emphasis is to greatly innudate the former or non-attending SDA's with this invitation. I asked my mom recently how come on these invitations and in the verbal appeal the SDA's make such a big deal about Sabbath, how come they don't stress the Christanity aspect of the church. I was told that everyone already knows the SDA church is Christian, that's a given. So now the main part in leading these people to truth is to convict them of the Sbbath. They already have Jesus. But, I thought it was he opposite. Everyone already knows the SDA church observes Sabbath. Alot of people do not know the SDA are (or claim to be) Christian. And, I guess she is right in her assessment of it because generally these SDA's "bring 'um in" programs are geared towards the already Christians. That is probably the main thing that I didn't like about my chldhood-the exclusiveness of it. I won't go into much detail here and now but I always was taught by implication that somehow we were better than anyone else because we had the truth of The Sabbath, food laws and the state of the dead. Since we were so much better, smarter, and in God's favor I shouldn't even want to lower myself by making friends with the "lost" children in the neighborhood. I should only want to make friends with kids who I can be friends with throughout eternity, get my friends at Pathfinders, SS, SDA schools, campmeeting, etc. Well, enough ranting for now. But, the underlying attitude of "we have the truth, all truth and you have none" is very strong and as a result kids grow up isolated from their own neighborhood kids. | ||
| Pw Registered user Username: Pw Post Number: 242 Registered: 6-2004 |
Tithing is another major issue, Ellen even went so far as to say if you didn't tithe then you didn't EARN God's blessings. Arrghhh! | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 444 Registered: 1-2003 |
You are right on about the exclusiveness and elitism in SDAism, Susan2. I also felt the same as you described and also felt so sorry for the poor deluded people without "the prophet" to answer all the unanserable questions we have to take on faith...like where do the dead go and is there life on other planets and the health message, etc. | ||
| Esther Registered user Username: Esther Post Number: 104 Registered: 5-2004 |
Pw, Last year before I even had a clue that our lives would take this turn, a good friend of ours was informed by one of the "head honchos" here at AU that, "by leaving your estate to Andrews, God will overlook any times you might have slipped up and forgotten to tithe on something, or those times when you didn't give offerings because of a tight budget." Salvation by works, or what?!?! |
