| Author | Message | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 258 Registered: 10-2004 |
Here is the EGW quote I referenced above:
Jeremy | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 98 Registered: 8-2004 |
Hmmmm, "Saved and sinless"? What about "I'm not perfect, just forgiven"? | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 259 Registered: 10-2004 |
To EGW, saved=sinless! Jeremy | ||
| Pw Registered user Username: Pw Post Number: 257 Registered: 6-2004 |
..."safe to claim we are saved"???? Where is the assurance of salvation in that quote? No wonder the SDA is trying to earn bonus points unto themselves. | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 458 Registered: 1-2003 |
I knew a guy who killed himself and left a suicide note to his Ellenized parents saying that he wasn't perfect and as much as he tried he never could be. My in-laws told me about this and they attributed it to his parent's mis-representing Ellen and SDA beliefs. Au contrair...I think they represented her quite accurately. So, Ellen's writings and cult have caused at least one death and possibly 2 that I know of! Seems like it is a viscious cycle, if you are good enough, pray enough, believe enough that God has the power to remove your addiction (sometimes I wonder if certain people are given thorns in their sides for a reason!!!!) and when it doesn't happen...what does that say about you and God??? Also, I have never seen an SDA pastor refuse to baptize an obese person, who is killing themselves just as surely as the smoker!!! | ||
| Dd Registered user Username: Dd Post Number: 307 Registered: 7-2004 |
H-m-m-m...I had a dear friend from academy who also committed suicide. In academy he was a avid EGW reader. I have never asked any details regarding his death to anyone who is close to the family but my suspicion is the same -- he could no longer live with being unable to achieve perfection as it was drummed into him. So so sad...I have often wondered how God will judge these people who have had such a terrible brainwashing background? | ||
| Pw Registered user Username: Pw Post Number: 259 Registered: 6-2004 |
Pheeki...what a valid point you have about obese people being baptized but not a smoker or even one wearing jewelry. Unreal. The sympathy of the SDA church is really cold when that's how they look upon suicides by their own members as ones not having the strength to live up to their codes. It was the most depressing time in my life as well, praise God he rescued me out of it. | ||
| Bob Registered user Username: Bob Post Number: 30 Registered: 7-2000 |
I probably alienated another SDA friend this week when I stated the following to her in an email: "As a former Adventist, I must tell you, however, that I am admittedly biased. I am convinced that trying to faithfully adhere to the traditional teachings of Seventh-day Adventism will eventually cause a person to drift toward agnosticism, or they will develop some degree of psychological and emotional illness." Not surprisingly, she has not yet replied! I didn't say it to be cruel, but rather because it was my honest response to an issue she had raised in her earlier message to me. | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 172 Registered: 7-2004 |
Maybe she is just trying to decide whether agnosticism or mental illness is a better fate. | ||
| Carol_2 Registered user Username: Carol_2 Post Number: 222 Registered: 2-2002 |
You know, some may think me bold to say this, but I believe strongly there have probably been MANY suicides due to Ellen's influence. It would probably sound far-fetched to anyone else, but those of us who have been there and lived that, who have struggled with overwhelming feelings of guilt and hopelessness.....we know. I definitely had times in my life where I was positive I was lost, would never be good enough, and thought ending life in this world would be easier and better. After all, I'd die quickly and sleep forever, maybe wake up for a short time when Jesus returned to the earth, and have to burn for a little while, but probably not too long. I hope I don't harp on this too much......but I know it firsthand because my husband was raised Baptist and never became SDA.....it's really hard sometimes for anyone to REALLY understand what we've been through. It was CRAZY!!!! | ||
| Pw Registered user Username: Pw Post Number: 260 Registered: 6-2004 |
Carol, I think that's the SDA source of comfort is to die and not worry about anything in an afterlife immediately, especially if they feel they will not enter heaven due to their own imperfections. Paul said, "if this life is all that we have, then we are to be pitied more than others because our faith is in vain." However we know better! | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 173 Registered: 7-2004 |
Carol, I understand the emotions that you are describing. I talked about it in my testimony as something I wouldn't wish upon my worst enemy. In all fairness, I think this issue cuts both directions. Those with addictive behaviors and mental illnesses are attracted to groups like SDAism which provide ALL the answers and teach that you are part of a special group. Even the teachings of impending persecution feed these illnesses. Since a disproportionate number of people attracted to groups like SDAs may have underlying mental illnesses, the addictions and suicides may not be the direct results of SDAism. But I don't mean that to explain away the hopelessness that SDAism teachings on perfectionism can create. | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 260 Registered: 10-2004 |
Oh yes, Ellen is most definitely a murderer--during her lifetime she murdered people in various ways, and even when dead she is still murdering people!!! It is a sick, satanic cult. That's all there is to it. Regarding allowing obese people to be baptized--how could they ever not allow that when EGW herself was obese??? Of course, she also wore jewelry, ate unclean meat, was addicted to alcohol (by her own admission!), etc., etc.... Jeremy | ||
| Dd Registered user Username: Dd Post Number: 308 Registered: 7-2004 |
PW, Where could I find the quote you used above? Is that a Revised PW version or another version? I really like the way it is stated. | ||
| Pw Registered user Username: Pw Post Number: 261 Registered: 6-2004 |
Dd. It's 1 Corinthians 15:19. The NIV version says "If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men". Stick with that one, my version was off the top of my head. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1252 Registered: 12-2003 |
Oh, Madelia--your infor re: Doug perfectly exposed the reason Adventists have such a relatively easy time making converts of other Christians. As long as a Christian doesn't understand the new covenant, that Jesus has fulfilled and surpassed the law Himself, they are sitting ducks, so to speak, to be snared by Adventism. Adventism, after all, teaches the entire 10 Commandments. No commandment-teaching "Sunday" church does that right. The New Covenant is not only the way out of the morass of Adventism, it is the spiritual protection for those vulnerable to Adventism's teachings. Colleen | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 282 Registered: 4-2000 |
My wife and I have often wondered how many people have died believing in Ellen White's two-meal-a-day regimen. If you are even a borderline diabetic this sporadic regimen could kill you at any moment. Blood glucose levels need to be fairly even throughout the day for optimal health for everyone. Instead of Ellen's two-meal-a-day prescription directly "from the throne," six light meals a day would be medically-ideal for many. It is painful to think of all the deceived people who died by putting their whole faith into Ellen White's "health message" before glucose monitoring became commonplace. Diabetes being a silent killer even today, with all our technology, the early Adventists must have had a high mortality rate needlessly by eating only two meals a day. Sadly, even today, many would rather die than disobey Ellen. Being that my wife is a diabetic, this blood sugar problem is very real at our house. Several months ago, Sylvia and I were invited to an SDA home for Saturday dinner. This family was strictly vegan. The SDA hostess knew that Sylvia was a diabetic, so she kindly informed us that her pineapple pie was made without sugar (smile). The main entree consisted of lentil patties that also quickly raise your glucose level. So, the only thing that Sylvia could eat was the salad (the drink was sugary also). Oh yes, there were baked potatoes and bread rolls too (more carbs). Obviously, the more fanatical that Adventists become about their so-called "health message" the more unhealthful their diet really is. Needless to add, this meal was really loaded with carbs--not a diabetic delight. All in all, Sylvia remains convinced that her vegetarian lifestyle largely contributed to her getting type-2 diabetes as early as she did. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 568 Registered: 7-2003 |
I am not convinced that the SDA diet is very healthy. I think it's possible, to have a healthy vegetarian diet, but not the way most SDAs do it with lots of meat substitutes, tons of carbs, and all kinds of casseroles with cheese. I spent 30 years as a SDA vegetarian and always struggled with my weight. I now eat a lot more protein since I started eating meat. I'm 45 pounds lighter than I was, I've maintained my optimum weight for almost a year, and at 35 I'm quite literally in the best shape of my entire life. So much for my SDA diet. I think if I had kept up that diet I would have had major health problems down the road. My biological father was a strict SDA vegetarian and he had diabetes, strokes, and heart attacks before his death. Perhaps I'll suffer the same fate, but I have to say that adding meat to my diet has seemed to help my health immensely. Chris | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1256 Registered: 12-2003 |
Chris, you are certanly not the first person I've heard say that. I believe you! I still say the main value of the strict Adventist diet is as a form of penance for those who feel unclean at very deep levels that they dare not reveal. At LEAST they can deprive themselves of gustatory pleasure even if their vices rage out-of-control behind the scenes! Oh, and Dennis--I'm still chuckling re: your diet recommendations from the throne! Colleen | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1346 Registered: 11-2002 |
About perfection-in the Lutheran tradition we have a teaching that as Christians we are at the same time saints and sinners. We are saints before God in our Christianity. We are sinners because we have been born into fallen mankind. We are told in the Pslams to live with a prayerful heart. God knows all. We do not need to remember to account for every sin in confession. They have already been covered by grace through Jesus. It's a totally wonderful and awsome teaching. And, everytime I read articles in the Review or other SDA publications about Lutherans who have converted to Adventism I just feel so sad for them. About the SDA health teachings-I guess if they get diabetes they can go to Weimer and get it cured. I have heard the cure rate at Weimer is extremely high. See, they get their people to get these illnesses so they can get lots of money out of the sick people at their cure centers. It's quite a business stragegy. We have a local VIP club where I live. VIP stands for Vegetarian Inclined People. We have a monthly potluck and meeting. The SDA's generally don't partisipate. These VIP's bring very high quality nutritous food. Vegan everything. No meat analogs. No artificial sweatner, color or flavorings. No white flour or eggs or dairy. No sugar. They food tasts wonderful. The SDA's just don't fit in. Occassionally some will shop up at the meetings. They just don't seem to 'get it'. They generally don't come back. I think when confronted with really good tasting, good for you all natural food they just don't have that in their frame of reference, you know, having been brainwashed to spend their money and give their bodies over to Loma Linda and Worthington foods. It's strinkingly different between the VIP's food and lifestyles and the SDA's. Now a bit about Doug Batchler. I heard him say on t.v. that someone said to him, "Why do you observe Sabbath? Are you a Jew?" And, he immediatelly told the person that, yes, he is Jewish and then he tells about his conversion to Adventism. |
