| Author | Message | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 164 Registered: 7-2004 |
The recent activity here and on some other boards started me thinking about the assumptions that people must make in order to accept EGW as a true prophet. Here is the list that I have come up with so far. In order to accept EGW one must accept that: •all prophecy is conditional, so that a prophet can not be judged by whether or not their prophecies come to pass. Then it doesnít matter whether previous prophecies have come true; •a prophet can contradict a Bible passage as often as they wish, so long as they agree with that passage at least once within their writings; •a prophet can add whatever they wish to what has been previously described in Scripture; •a prophetís understanding of an English translation is superior to a scholarly understanding of the original languages; •a prophet is not bound by the context of the Scripture they are using; •God purposefully hides truth from a prophet in vision because the truth does not serve Godís higher purposes; •only those statements from the prophet with which they agree are necessarily inspired, all other statements from the prophet that disagree with oneís beliefs can be ìtrumpedî by one statement that is in agreement. Therefore, no number of problematic statements is sufficient to question the inspiration of the prophet; •blatant historical errors can be shown in vision to a prophet; •God uses visions to show erroneous processes (animal passions/irritated stomach) in the body in order to support the desirable result of promoting a health message; and •copying materials and claiming them as your own is an acceptable practice for prophets. | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 240 Registered: 10-2004 |
Great list, Rick! Although, in some cases, it would need to be, "a prophet can contradict a Bible passage as often as they wish, even if they never agree with it"! Jeremy | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 166 Registered: 7-2004 |
Well that might sound too bitter! | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 241 Registered: 10-2004 |
Isn't it funny, though, how true that is for so many SDAs, that they think as long as EGW gets it right in one place she can contradict herself and the Bible and get it wrong in another?? They call it "looking at the big picture," or "finding the balance in her writings"! Sorry, but it's called "contradiction." It just amazes me that they can call contradiction "balance" and think it's fine! Jeremy | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 167 Registered: 7-2004 |
"Finding the balance in her writings." That's what really added this point to my list. You can post 20 examples showing that EGW taught an erroneous position, and SDAs think that one post quoting a contradicting point from her "trumps" all the problem quotes. | ||
| Hrobinsonw Registered user Username: Hrobinsonw Post Number: 117 Registered: 7-2004 |
How much of EGW'd head trauma affected her train of thought. Maybe she didn't know any better. Or then maybe she didn't have a clue and had a sign reading, "mislead me please" written on her forehead. I can now believe that every since Thanksgiving and meeting my wife's 96 year old grandmother. She is old as Jesus's sandles and is mislead. She keeps telling me to keep the commandments | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1219 Registered: 12-2003 |
OK, I'm laughing now. Your list, Ric, captures the mystique of Ellen perfectly. And how good that you restrained your bitterness! Ha! Once thing's for sure--Ellen has created a mythology that lends itself to great (if a bit cynical!) humor! Thanks for a good laugh, Ric! Colleen | ||
| Randyg Registered user Username: Randyg Post Number: 2 Registered: 12-2004 |
As I have reflected on the SDA fundamental belief #17 that "her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth", I sit here shaking my head.This is what we are asked to accept and promote. If she was a member in my local SDA congregation today claiming visions and giving reprimands and reproves on absolutely every topic I cannot think of one person who would tolerate it, or consider it other than a mental illness. I must say that she at least had head trauma as an excuse. I now wonder what my excuse has been. As I look back even recently,I have to ask myself how I could be so easily manipulated to tolerate all the rubbish.It is difficult to admit that in this area I have not been the sharpest knive in the drawer.It would almost be funny if it wasn't so sad. Fair thee well, Randy | ||
| Tdf Registered user Username: Tdf Post Number: 31 Registered: 11-2004 |
Randyg-Are you new to FAF? If so, welcome. It is an interesting thought to imagine EGW in the pew today. You are right--she wouldn't be tolerated. Ric-You are so right. EGW certainly is a false prophet under the definition provided in Matt. 7. Interestingly, Matt. 7 cautions us to consider a prophet's fruits. My wife and I were discussing this and we reached the conclusion that the fruits of EGW are legalism, criticism, stagnation, fear, guilt, frustration, condemnation and hopelessness. I read once that the definition of a fanatic is someone who cannot open his mind and cannot shut his mouth. Boy, I'm really starting to understand that more than ever before! | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1228 Registered: 12-2003 |
Randy, I've also experienced the embarrassment and chagrin you describe over your "swallowing" of Ellen. You know, this explanation does not make us innocent, but it does help me understand my gullibility: we were deceived and very effectively brainwashed from a very young age (or by very clever maniupaltors of Scripture who preyed on our desire to know truth when we didn't have much biblical background, in the case of those not born into the denomination). We didn't just get the SDA "truths" presented to us for our critical examination after which we could logically decide to accept or reject. No--a quite literal spirit of deception accompanies Adventist teachings. If we are vulnerable, we won't even see that SDA teachings are craziness. The fact that gives me such hope and joy is that the Holy Spirit doesn't just leave us in our ignorance and in our "thrall" to Ellen's spirit of deception. When we want to know the truth, He quite literally awakens our spiritual discernment so we can see the reality of what we've been in and become free, by His life bringing us light, to choose truth over confusion. All that being said, I have had to repent before God of my having taught Adventism to my students and people in my SS classes over the years. I just priase Him for being sovereign and for redeeming all the past we submit to him! Colleen | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 161 Registered: 7-2004 |
Tdf, You are so right on with your "EGW fruits" conclusion. That's also a great definition of a fanatic. | ||
| Pw Registered user Username: Pw Post Number: 251 Registered: 6-2004 |
The sad part is is that I actually bought into these claims. | ||
| Randyg Registered user Username: Randyg Post Number: 6 Registered: 12-2004 |
Colleen, thank-you for your words.This is my first tuesday morning at home in 15 years. I didn't know it would be so much fun.I can tell that you didn't sleep through Freshman Comp at WWC like I did. Oh well,I suppose I could increase my writing skills by reading the works of others and then copying it out.Then again maybe not. Attempting to rise to the challenge,Randy | ||
| Weimarred Registered user Username: Weimarred Post Number: 2 Registered: 1-2005 |
To All, Iíve often wondered myself how so many people could so readily accept EGWís writings. Some time back, I read a fascinating book by Karen Armstrong called The Battle for God, which attempts to explain Fundamentalism. (Though itís so much more than that ñ itís sort of a 300 page exegesis on the histories of Christianity, Islam, and Judaism juxtaposed against some 500 years of modern geo-political history.) Two important themes from the book are: 1> Mythos vs. Logos, which she asserts are BOTH necessary to feed our souls; 2> and that modern Fundamentalism is just that, MODERN. Miller and Hines indeed went about a very Logos way of interpreting Scripture. The 1800ís were a time of an upheaval of modernization, the blossoming fruition of rational thought. We would see things like the Moody Bible Institute, and an exhaustive book arguing about whether or not Adam and Eve had navels (Iím not making this up!). My 2 cents worth is this: 1> SDA is indeed a VERY modern movement. Iíve yet to come across any historical record of any Christian group that placed as much emphasis on the Sabbath. 2 > After the Great Disappointment, the followers may have needed some fresh Mythos to counteract the very recent failure of Logos. EGW is certainly apocryphal and apocalyptic! To accept EGW, you really do have to make some or all of the assumptions listed in the original post. SDA continues to place a very heavy emphasis on the Logos reading of the Bible (though they donít seem to do a very good job of it!), while at the same time they continue to find their Mythos in the writings of EGW. Until the SDA member finds Spiritual Mythos in the reading of the Bible, he runs the danger of remaining in the trap! -Tom | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 920 Registered: 3-2004 |
I have wondered why I so easily accepted EGW. I was raised SDA. My parents kept many secrets and my Mom told us, you never tell anyone your problems. You only tell God. My Mom was not a happy lady. So it was easy to accept Adventism and EGW because that was what I was taught to do. I learned in my 12 step program to talk about what was going on in my life and most important I learned to know God and how much He loves me. It was sometime in that process that I learned to dislike EGW. I did not know why at the time, but I did not like to hear her quoted in a sermon and would get up and walk out. But, as Colleen has said, God has redeemed my past, because I have given it to him. Again it reminds me that God is awesome. Diana | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 165 Registered: 7-2004 |
I was also taught, probably because of EGW's advice, to never tell any one your problems--only tell God. While I am somewhat reserved, I have never followed that advise as stringently as I was taught to. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1235 Registered: 12-2003 |
Tom, you're right that Adventists idolize the words in the Bible. There are two ironic things about that idolatry: they revere them OUT OF CONTEXT, and they do not take the Logos John identifies as Jesus seriously. It is so signficant that Jesus is the Logos--the Word. That means that the Word is the most seminal force in the universe, according to John 1:1-4. Our words do not equal the Word--but when they are enlivened by the Holy Spirit, they reflect the Word. Have you ever noticed that it was "words" that God confused at Babel? When words were confused, unity was not possible. People separated themselves from each other, and the nations grew out of that separation. But Pentecost reversed the effects of Babel. When the Holy Spirit first indwelt humans, the external sign of that first filling was that people spoke in languages they did not know on their own. The purpose of this restoration of word through the power of the Word was to proclaim Christ. I believe that in general, Advenitsts' problem with the words of the Bible is that they are not submitted to the Word and filled with the Holy Spirit who gives spiritual enlightenment (1 Corinthians 2). Hence, they can use the words as traps and burdens and curses. How blasphemous--that the words of Scripture would become tools of evil in the hands of those who have no integrity or commitment to truth. God is amazing--He allows us to share the creative wisdom of the Word through the work of the Holy Spirit in us! Colleen | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 923 Registered: 3-2004 |
Colleen, Don't you know the SDAs are waiting for the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, which will happen in the last days. This is just a bit of sarcasm. It seems I remember something to that effect from my SDA schooling. It is so nice God sends the Holy Spirit to teach us when we accept Jesus. I do not have to wait for that "outpouring". I can have it right now. Thank you God, you are awesome. Diana | ||
| Hrobinsonw Registered user Username: Hrobinsonw Post Number: 119 Registered: 7-2004 |
Colleen, Thank you. That was the realest thing that I have ever read. | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 554 Registered: 7-2003 |
Colleen said: "Have you ever noticed that it was 'words' that God confused at Babel? When words were confused, unity was not possible. People separated themselves from each other, and the nations grew out of that separation. "But Pentecost reversed the effects of Babel. When the Holy Spirit first indwelt humans, the external sign of that first filling was that people spoke in languages they did not know on their own. The purpose of this restoration of word through the power of the Word was to proclaim Christ." Wow! That's quite a profound thought. Thank you for that insight, Colleen. Chris |
