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Tealeaves
Registered user
Username: Tealeaves
Post Number: 190
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 4:02 pm: |     |
This past month my husband's family sent him some home video footage from when he was little. <Note: my husband is former SDA, and his entire extended family is devout SDA>. The footage was of he and his family and cousins at various family functions and "Pathfinder" pow-wows.
He watched it all, then a few days later, he told me that it was rather unsettling, that everything they did back them was somehow separated from the world, and oddly tinted, oddly flavored. he said it wasn't something he could have known back then, because he didn't know any different. But being separated from the SDA culture for the last 10 years made him able to see it.
He didn't know how to put his finger on it, except to say that it was subtle, pervasive, and rather sad.
I knew what he meant, because that "feeling" was the one I resisted ever since the first time I walked on the SDA campus where I attended college.
Anyone else know this odd separate feeling that he was talking about?
-tanya-
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Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 1408
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 5:14 pm: | |
In several of the other posts, Tanya I said that in SDA'ism one is in a very closed society. It didn't happed to me as much as it did to a lot of my cousins because of the location in which I lived as a child and because I never did attend a SDA summer camp or some of the other functons. However, just think about it-the children attend SDA day schools. In high school many go off to live at a SDA school so they get only the SDA exposure 24/7. Many then go on to SDA college and university. For mid-week recreation the kids have Pathfinders. In the summer they get the SDA summer camps for the kids and then there is the SDA yearly Mecca pilgrimage-campmeeting. Parents of young children often make friends with their childrens friends parents. In SDA'ism the parents of their kids friends would be also SDA. Often if SDA children even have neighborhood friends the socialization with these neighbor kids will be quite limited. The SDA's generally are not going to allow their children to attend the neighbor childs birthday party if the party is on Sabbath or if there is alcohol at the party. Sometimes though they will let the kids go but the kids have to take their own food because usually barbeques are tritip or hotdogs or chicken, not vegedogs. SDA's tend to be very exclusive, they tend to not mingle too much with the regular folks. In my community we have several multi-demoninational organizations. The SDA church does not partisipate in these groups. And, they are invited to do so. I have really felt blessed that I only went to SDA schools for 3rd, 4th, 5th, 11 and two months of 12th grades. That was more than enough for me to notice the exclusiveness of the people who have the truth. Contrast this to Jesus who freely mingled with the community people, even the lady who had been a bigtime sinner. |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 1319
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 5:21 pm: | |
Yes, Tanya, I do know what you mean. I really sense it now that I have distance from it.
I remember a colleague of mine at the school where I taught telling me, a couple of years ago, that she went into the Campus Store at LLU to get something, and she said it just "felt strange" to her.
It's real and subtle and nearly intangible--but it's powerful.
Colleen |
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 298
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 5:42 pm: | |
Tanya, yes, I know what you are talking about. It is pretty creepy, now.
I was thinking of saying this a little while ago--do any of you who grew up SDA ever get a bit upset over the fact that most of your childhood memories are "tainted" with Adventism? It seems like so many of my memories that I used to treasure now seem at least a little tainted--"disgusting" for lack of a better word--due to them having something to do with SDAism. Do you know what I mean?
Jeremy |
Carol_2
Registered user
Username: Carol_2
Post Number: 237
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 5:43 pm: | |
I too sense it strongly. I still have some very close friends in Adventism, and it sort of makes me feel guilty, because I feel kind of creeped out at times when in the atmosphere of lots of them. I've had occasion to go to a few parties and gatherings where my husband and I were the only non SDA's. So much of what they say, the things they talk about, the SDA language they use, etc., it does make me feel sad and strange and like I said, kind of creepy! |
Carol_2
Registered user
Username: Carol_2
Post Number: 238
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 5:44 pm: | |
Jeremy - it struck me that you and I both used the word "creepy" (you sent your message apparently as I was writing mine, and I hadn't read your post.) Creepy does describe many of the feelings I have now toward SDAism. |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 961
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 5:46 pm: | |
Before I was divorced and still in the church I worked in Washington, DC, in the worse neighbor hood in DC. I had been very protected until then and I can remember feeling like this was not life as I knew it. I grew up SDA, went to SDA schools 1st grade through college. The world felt very strange. I wanted to live near other SDAs, but I never did. Thank God I did not. So yes, I can understand that feeling.
Diana |
Tealeaves
Registered user
Username: Tealeaves
Post Number: 192
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 7:24 pm: | |
I felt this same "creepy" feeling in Salt Lake City Utah. Actually, i experienced it even stronger in Salt lake City. It was almost like a tangible resident evil masquerading as a sweet societal rhythm.
The same creepy feeling I had at the fair this summer when I passed an SDA Apocalypse booth disguised as a political booth. they were giving out the Desire of Ages with the new "Passion of Christ" superimposed title. as well as other Sunday law propaganda.
And yes, Jeremy,
my husband does feel a little disgusted about every memory being tainted with SDAism. In fact, he said he felt a strong sadness he didn't expect the last time his parents visited (we only see them once a year). He said he felt sad because he knew that they probably judged him for his choice to leave the SDA church, and he realized that they had nothing left to talk about anymore, because they are SDA teachers who do literally nothing that isn't church-oriented, and know no one who isn't SDA. (besides us.)
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Raven
Registered user
Username: Raven
Post Number: 184
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 7:34 pm: | |
When I was growing up, from about 2 years of age until we moved at the age of 15, we lived in an area where every single neighbor was SDA. It was rural area around us, so you had to drive to get to any other community. During my school years, I was always fascinated by the occasional non-SDA who would attend. A very close friend in 7th grade was a non-SDA, and I went to an academy banquet with a Catholic boy. The whole world was divided between SDA and non-SDA, and the exclusiveness bothered me from a young age.
In the family I grew up in, we were conservative enough that there were a lot of even SDA things we couldn't participate in. Therefore, I probably experienced even more isolation than the average SDA. Even when we moved to a non-SDA neighborhood at 15, it was rural and there were no kids other than us.
It's hard to know how much is personality and how much is environment, but I've often wondered if those factors have affected how difficult it still is for me to be part of a group. |
Tracey
Registered user
Username: Tracey
Post Number: 161
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 7:55 am: | |
Raven,
The fact that you were so isolated and sheltered gives me hope for those who didn't come from such extreme circumstances.. Look how far you have come! Look how far the Lord has brought you! Hallelujah for that!
C also isn't the best in groups, but he is slowly getting better with me being an example. (he's also shy so, I don't know) Did I tell you that he recently bit my chicken sandwich and yesterday, he had some soup with pieces of meat in it. (he didn't even ask"does this have meat in it?") He still has far to go, but I thank God that I can see Him moving in C's life.
I hope we can get together in the spring again.
Tracey |
Melissa
Registered user
Username: Melissa
Post Number: 696
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 9:09 am: | |
I went to a family event with B several years ago, and his sister in law and aunts were talking about different people, and I was absolutely amazed at how every person was identified as not being SDA or being SDA. I just shook my head. When they had a family pow-wow "testimony" time, I sat outside. I was so uncomfortable, I could hardly wait to leave. I felt bad for B. I know he didn't understand how chilling it was to be in such a crowd when you're not an insider.
I hear he made remarks to several of his aunts because the next day they apologized for their insensitivity. I thought that was kind of odd on its own. I'd certainly have rather known how they felt than be deceived further, but I know he would have preferred I remained in the dark. |
Tracey
Registered user
Username: Tracey
Post Number: 162
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 9:42 am: | |
Tanya, (and others)
with regards to your childhood, I can speak from experience about childhoods being "not perfect" and now, looking back as an adult, I can almost feel sorry for that sweet little girl, but there is such a confidence that I developed in God that He takes care of me now because, throughout all of our childhood, His very hand rested upon our heads and walked with us to the place we are today. God has been and remains so faithful to us. Thank you Lord. |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 1322
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 9:44 am: | |
Oh, Melissa, I really feel for you, the way you were plummeted into "Adventism" as an "outsider" without knowing what you were getting into! It is such an exclusive, subtle, "us/them" mentality--as you know.
On the inside, even the "insiders" are unofficially "ranked". In school, those who have one parent who's an NOP (Not Our People) and one who is SDA are marginalized. It's not overt, but it's powerful. Further, if one's parents are not properly educated and employed either in a medical career or by the church (with allowances being made for those whose parents may have other well-paying positions such as engineers or lawyers), one can usually not achieve total inclusion.
If one's parents are divorced (even though covert unfaithfulness and hidden family abuse is rampant in the church), one cannot usually be fully integrated, either, unless one is extremely social and a natural leader.
Parents begin arranging for their children's friends in kindergarten. (I'm sure this phenomenon isn't limited to SDA schools--but it certainly works well in the exclusive SDA private school environement). I have a good friend who, with her husband, has left the church this year. Her kids are in an Adventist school because they were registered before they made their move, and they're planning to put them into public school next year. The moms of her kids' friends have been active in arranging for her kids to play with their kids. When those moms learn that my friend is moving her kids next year and that they go to a "Sunday church" now, they register veiled shock, curiosity, and in many cases, a distinct pulling away.
It was really amazing to me, when I began teaching at Arrowhead Christian Academy in Redlands, that there was none of the "natural" heirarchy of doctors and "professionals" that had ALWAYS been present in Adventist schools. In fact, the doctors familiies represented there were pretty low-profile. Instead, there were really a lot of what I would have called "blue-collar workers", but they tended to be owners of their own businesses, etc. There were contractors, specialty store owners, public service workers including fire fighters and policemen, quite a few teachers, etc. It was a completely different composition--and no one really cared much what one's parents' professions were.
I had become used to sliding our Honda Civic into the parade of Mercedes', Lexus's, SUVs, etc. lined up after school at Loma Linda Academy and Redlands Junior Academy. At ACA, while there was the occasional high profile car, there were, instead, average family cars, vans, occasional SUVs, and pick-up trucks. The tuition for ACA approximately equalled the tuition at an Adventist school, so financially the families were probably comparable. There was just such a difference in the level of "strutting" and class-consciousness.
I'm not saying "plain Christians" don't have their own temptations to show off and jockey for power, but I am concluding that the drive to be a big fish in a little pond which seems to characterize Adventism just isn't as pervasive a force in Christianity.
At any rate, the difference was when we moved to ACA from SDA schools was palpable.
Colleen |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 964
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 1:56 pm: | |
I can really identify with the subtle ranking of what your parents do when I was at Lynwood Academy. My parents were very poor and I had to work at the school after school, cleaning, to help pay my tuition. I was not included in any activities unless they were school sponsored. I used to ask my Mom why I could not go to public school and she told me God wanted me in SDA schools.
Thank God I have worked through all that rejection and know that God has redeemed all my past. He is awesome.
Diana |
Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 1421
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, January 29, 2005 - 7:11 pm: | |
Colleen and others, What you say about the SDA ranking system is interesting. I grew up in an extremely rural area. The little town around five miles from my house had a little SDA church of maybe a half-dozen regular attendig families. In this church they did not use the SDA hymmnal. They used a Christian country and western songbook. One man usually did the instramental accompanyant on his gutiar. This church was quite mixed ethnically and racially. Because the SDA's that lived in the community went there and the SDA's in that area were a nice mix of races and ethicities. Around 25 miles from my home was a very large city. The SDA's that went to the main church in that city tended to "look down" on the country farmer SDA's, expecially those who were known to raise their own chickens for their meat. My family went to both those churches. I am white. My best friend growing up was SDA and attended the country SDA church as well as the same public schools I went to. She was black. My parents and her grandparents (all SDA) were best friends. It was just too far to drive the kids in to the SDA school. There were also several Mexican-American families at the country church. Then in the city there was the white church, the black church, the Asian church, the Mexican church, etc. I remember as a teanager asking someone one time why this was. I was told SDA churches are not segreated. That they are neighborhood churches and the people go to the church closest to their house. But, I knew that wasn't true because I knew alot of the city people drove farther to the churches of their own race than other SDA churches that were closer to their house. I always got the implied uderstanding that the more educated city SDA's looked down on the country and mountain SDA's. In the rural SDA church the folks would come to Sabbath services in their Levi's and dungarees. At the city church the Sabbath services looked like a fashion show. In the same denomination it was way different between the different churches I attended. BTW, my best friend passed away a few years ago. I sometimes still miss her so much. We had so much fun together. |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 972
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, January 29, 2005 - 10:03 pm: | |
When I was a little girl, the minister of the SDA church we attended came to our house and said something to our Mom about attending the Spanish speaking church. Mom refused, telling him that her children did not speak Spanish and she wanted them to know English. I understand he did not like her reply. The church had a number of doctors and some wealthy people in it and we were a poor family. Like I said in another post I could feel the suble feeling of being rejected in our SDA school. It took me many years to get over this rejection. Thank you God for redeeming the past. You are awesome.
Diana |
U2bsda
Registered user
Username: U2bsda
Post Number: 7
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, January 30, 2005 - 9:39 pm: | |
It has been 6 years for me now. I too feel the sadness when I am around my family. I want them to experience LIFE free from the "Tie that Binds". I grew up SDA and went to SDA schools through college. It was only in a non-SDA environment where I first discovered that non-SDA Christians are not ignorant, but followers of the one true and living God.
I am the only one in my family that is a non-SDA. Most of my family work for the SDA church too. Their whole lives are SDA. They are devoting their whole week to promoting SDAs too. And here I am rejecting SDAism. I know they are ashamed and embarassed. Most of their friends have no idea.
Yes, there is a lot of ranking depending on where you live. Some places it is obvious and others barely noticable. Where my family is it is very noticable! SDA schools are loaded with ranking!!
Now I look back with a mix of sadness and anger. Sadness at the blind eyes of my family. Sadness that they are devoting their lives to the SDA cause. Anger at their judgement of me when I am now doing more for the kingdom of God than I ever have. Anger at the teachings of the SDA church that undermine the furtherance of the Gospel of Jesus. How could I not see the truth for so long?
Thank you God, Thank you for bringing me out! Thank you God that my children will never experience what I did!
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Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 1331
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 30, 2005 - 11:32 pm: | |
Dear U2: I echo your prayer: "Thank you, God, for bringing me out! Thank you God that my children will never experience what I did!"
Isn't it amazing how God redeems the past and mnakes all things new?! |
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