| Author | Message | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 958 Registered: 3-2004 |
Hannah, The last SDA funeral I went to was for my Mom and it was not a traditional SDA funeral because Mom did not want a church service, only a grave side service with no minister. Only her family spoke and our youngest sister sang. Mom wanted Mariachis to sing 3 songs at her funeral and my sisters got the Mariachis. They sang Jalisco, because that is the Mexican state from where my Mom's family came, Las Golondrinas, because that was her favorite song and Las Mananitas and they sang one other. At her memorial sevice, inside the SDA church, the mariachis played the same songs, and Mom's kids and grandkids said something about her. The SDA minister said something, but I do not remember what he said. The hospice chaplain, non SDA but Christian, said something also and I do not remember what he said either. What I remember is a sad, fun, joyous time remembering Mom with all her good qualities and her bad ones. I especially commend the SDA minister for letting the mariachis play in his church. Mom was not even a member there. None of my family is. So I have put you and your family in my prayer book and have asked God to be with you and put the words that He wants in your mouth. Have fun with that 2 year old. I have a grandson that is 20 months old now and he is a character. As for her sinning, I would not worry about it. She is not old enough to have a relationship with Jesus. She just barely understands about him. I was going to say something else but it was something I remembered from EGW, which I do very seldom, and I decided not to say it. Though, I do know that at that age, a two year old knows if they are doing something that they are supposed to do or not. I like watching children in all their stages of development. It reminds me of what an awesome God we have. Diana | ||
| Packer_eric Registered user Username: Packer_eric Post Number: 10 Registered: 3-2004 |
Susan, Let me preface this short post by saying I enjoy reading your (many) posts all over the discussion portion of the forum. I truly can say that though we have never met, I can "see" you and can picture much of what has gone on in your life and your spiritual journey. But I feel compelled to make a point that, though I am "processing out" of the SDA "program", I am a vegetarian (going on 27 years or so, as is my entire family of four.) It is not because I became an SDA in 1991 (heck, I became a vegetarian in 1976 to "rebel" against my mom and dad!?!) Being vegetarian is so common place amongst all walks of life. It is a fact that abstaining from eating animals (especially, beef and pork) is so much better for you (healthwise)in the long run. This is not SDA research this is just plain the way it is. Admittedly, many non-vegetarian humans live well into their 90s or beyond. Still, it is a personal choice...one that started out as "rebellion" for me and became a wonderful choice as I grew older. I "marvel" as to how the SDA faithful have skewed their views on this particular aspect of diet. As far as "drinking," my wife tends to hold onto the "all things in moderation" theory, but I am under the belief that not much good comes of consuming alcohol, and, being a high school teacher, I see daily what it can do to the lives of our youth and their families. So, we are indeed entitled to our own opinions, and the subject of "what we eat and drink" is addressed in Scripture, true, open for interpretation, but drinking or eating to excess does not sound like something Christ would have done himself nor is it something He would want us to pursue. Hope I don't come across too harsh, but I felt compelled to voice my 2 cents worth (maybe all its's worth, but that's better than bein' broke  Eric | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 960 Registered: 3-2004 |
Eric, I hope you have noticed on here that we can disagree and no one minds. We state how we think and if another thinks differently, we just agree to disagree. And your 2 cents worth is valuable. I like to hear what everyone has to say. Diana | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1313 Registered: 12-2003 |
Ha! "It's better than being broke!" I like it. Eric, what grade(s) and subject do you teach? I spent the last 5 years back in the classroom teaching 9th grade English. What an age group! My mom, who was a pediatric nurse, attended an inservice program one day where a child psychologist said that if one gives a regular, adult personality test to a teenager, he will likely show results that identify him as psychotic. But "psychotic" is normal for adolescents! No wonder parents and teachers are so exhausted! Colleen | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 598 Registered: 7-2003 |
Eric said: "It is a fact that abstaining from eating animals (especially, beef and pork) is so much better for you (healthwise)in the long run. This is not SDA research this is just plain the way it is." Eric, please cite peer reviewed research to support this statement. In short, I believe you'll be able to find research showing that vegetarianism is superior to excessive use of animal fats, but I believe you'll have a very hard time indeed supporting the idea that vegetarianim is supperior to a moderate well balanced diet including some animal proteins. If you're able to find such research please share. You might want to use the PubMed/Medline medical research engine to access good solid peer reviewed journals and articles. Chris | ||
| Carol_2 Registered user Username: Carol_2 Post Number: 234 Registered: 2-2002 |
I seriously believe Susan is about the most non-judgmental person on this entire forum, and was merely making a joke! | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1402 Registered: 11-2002 |
Packer-eric, My favorite food is Morningstar Farms hot dogs at the lemonade stand in the mall. I think the place is called Hot Dog On A Stick. I buy that vege stuff by the case loads. In my community we have a group called the VIP's. VIP stands for Vegetarian Inclined People. I used to regurally attend the monthly meetings but the room the group was renting got too expensive (they wanted the room for the monthly meetings to be free) so the meetings were moved to a town around 20 miles away and I haven't attended very often in the past several years. In fact, the SDA church lets the VIP's meet in their social hall for free. I think that is extremely generous and nice of the SDA's to do that because most of the VIP's are very non-traditional types of people. A lot of hippies, several practicing witches, extreme health fanatics, etc. But, their monthly potluck is wonderful. It is vegan and a lot of the food is grown by the members. I frankly have no idea if meat eaters or if vegetarians are healthier or if one group tends to live longer natural lives. I read the obits every day and the ages of the deceased seem to be getting older and older as time passes. I get a monthly magazine called The Lutheran and there is a columm in it of Lutherans who have had birthdays the previous month and are at least 100 years old. These people, by and large, would not be veetarian and most likly they use alcohol and do other behaviors that the SDA church trys to get its members to shun, yet they are getting older and older and for the most part are dying from old age rather than some sort of catastrophic illness, disease or accident. So, I just don't know. It all seems to be dependant on what souce of reading material I have before me as the organization doing the research will want the results to come out a certain way so it will. I wrote to the SDA conference and asked if I could be in their health study and because I am not a member of the SDA church they won't let me. I even told them I attend there most every week with my elderly SDA mother but that still didn't qualify me for their study. I just wonder how many of the SDA's who partisipate in those LLU studues really tell the truth on all their answers. Now about funerals. I went to a funeral once for a man who was a very involved Mason. These Masons came to the funeral in their weird goofy looking Mason hats and other garb and then the head Mason dude got upfront and talked about how the deceased was now in the big lodge in the sky. I busted out laughing and I had to leave because I rally did want to be respectful to the family. | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1403 Registered: 11-2002 |
Oh, And I would like to add that I have been to a lot of Hare Krishna gatherngs. After the HK meeting they provide all the folks who showed up an awsome vegetaian feast. They use no eggs or meat, they do use dairy. Actually, of all the different vegetarian gatherings I have been to I like the HK food the best. Of course, when I tell the folls at the gathering this they give all credit and glory to Lord Krishna and tell me it is the best because Lord Krishna blesses the faithful. Whatever...it still is awsome wonderful food. I even have the HK cookbook and it's one of my favorites. I have a very close frind who is Krishna. You know the elephant that Lord Vishnu rides on? Well, that elephant is named Lord Nandi. My friend and his wife named their little boy Nandi. In fact, all three of their children are named after Hindu gods. I thought it was weird but I guess it is no more weird than for a Jewish family to name their children names such as David or Aaron or a Christian family to name their sons Philip or Andrew. I honestly can't figure out the HK religion though. I have decided it's a cultural thing because I know a very wonderful man from Thailand who was born and raised Buddhist and even though he attends a Chritian church weekly now that he is in the United Staes and is married to a Christian he says he can not understand the concept of Jesus. But, he says the Chrstians are the nicest people he's ever known and he likes them so his children are being raised Christian and he does attend church weekly with his Christian family. So, I think it's a cultural thing. But, really, the HK gatherings are wonderful. I'd encourage everyone to go to the HK gatherings if you get the opportuity to. Ad, be sure to stay for the feast after the service. | ||
| Vchowdhury1 Registered user Username: Vchowdhury1 Post Number: 114 Registered: 7-2004 |
Eric, I was an sda for close to 40 years...and believe me, Susan was just describing "typical" sda behaviour in a "tongue and cheek" manner I don't think she meant anything personal against vegetarians or non-drinkers --Valerie | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1405 Registered: 11-2002 |
The Hare Krshnas don't use alcohol. The ones I know sure like to smoke their pocoloco though. Colleen, you were saying above quite a # of posts above already that SDA's don't want anyone to be eternally lost. Thre's a text where Jesus says, "I have other sheep". I do not know if this is the official SDA position or if it is just my family but I was taught that by saying that Jesus ment that people born into areas where the religion is Buddhist are Gods people and need to be true to their Buddhist roots. People born into the Hindu regions of the world are to be true to their Hindu teachings. Same goes for Moslems and so on. It only makes sense to me that this teaching and belief is reasonable. Many of these religions are much older than is Christianity. God put the different peoples in different areas on the earth. He gave us a variety of plants, a variety of animals, a variety of most everything. It seems only logical that in His wisdom and All-knowing glory he would give the different peoples the best religion to meet that peoples needs. Am I making understood what I am trying to convey? Christianity seems to fit the West best. Buddhism seems to fit Aisa. Hindu India and those areas. Moslem the Far East. Then we have the Native Aericans religions with their incredible respect for nature and the island peoples with their unique beliefs. I am so thankful that I believe in a fair and just God because I believe God will take everyone "where he is at in his spiritual journey". I recently took a worlds religions class and I was struck by the similatities in the different religions. All have some version of The Golden Rule. There are other similrities, too. | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 601 Registered: 7-2003 |
Susan, all these religions cannot possibly all be different ways to be reconciled with the same God. For starters, the pictures they paint of God are mutually exclusive. All religions do NOT worship the same god or gods. The god or gods that men create are very different from the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The god or gods that all man made religions create are contradictory to the one true God. Also, one of these man made religions can ever reconcile people to the true God, because no "religion" (including Christianity for that matter) reconciles anyone to God. We are reconciled to God, not by religion, but through a realtionship with Jesus. There is only one mediator between God and man, the God-man, Jesus Christ. There is only one perfect sacrifice for the sins of the world, the spotless lamb, Jesus Christ. There is only one Saviour, the Messiah, Jesus. Jesus makes this claim for Himself in the gospel of John stating that no one comes to the Father except through Him. If a person does not accept Jesus as their mediator, if they do not accept Him as the sacrifice for their sin, if they do not accept Him as their savior, if they do not come to the Father through Jesus, then how can they experience the New Birth? Those who are not born again will never enter the Kingdom. Those who are not in Christ do not have life.....where would that life come from apart from Christ? I don't see any hope in the Bible of any salvation apart from Jesus Christ. The OT saints put their faith in God's promises of a coming Messiah (starting way back in Eden). The NT saints put their faith in the finished work of the Messiah. Peoples of all time are saved in the same way though, through the Messiah, the savior of the world. I know in this day and age of relavitism I probably sound like an intolerant, fundamentalist, bigot, wacko extremist :-) I guess I might have to bare those labels, but I cannot see how I could take any other postion given the teaching of the Bible and Jesus' claims for Himself. I'm curious where others have come out on this issue. I'm 180 degrees from where I was as an Adventist, but I believe my position has drawn closer to the position scripture takes. I'm certainly open to reproof and correction ***from scripture*** though. Chris | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1314 Registered: 12-2003 |
Susan, I do understand your point. I do believe, however, that many of the world's religions really are false religions that give honor to satanic deities. Romans 1 is very specific that the knowledge of God--the true Creator God--has been made known through all that has been made, and all men are without excuse if they choose not to honor Him. They have suppressed the knowledge of God by their wickedness. (Romans 1:18-20) Christianity is recent because Jesus was here only about 2,000 years ago. Yet Christianity was not a "new" religion. Christianity was the natural fulfillment of Judaism. Further, while the world calls Christianity a "religion" and categorizes it with other religions such as Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc., it actually is not a religion per se. When a person embraces Jesus, that's what makes him a Christian. True Christianity is not a set of beliefs and practices, although that is what many denominations have made it. In fact, many individuals call themselves Christian because they "buy" into the main Christian values. But this "buying into" values and lifestyle does not make a Christian. Real Christianity is a relationship with Jesus--indeed, with the Triune God. Because a person is literally born again by the Holy Spirit when he accepts JEsus, his entire life and worldview changes. It isn't just choosing a new way of worshiping or thinking. It is a completely new reality. It is literally becoming God's child (Romans 8:12-17). It has absolutely nothing to do with a denomination or set of practices. It has everything to do with a relationship. No other religion includes a personal relationship with deity. Christianity is completely unique. Prior to JEsus' coming, the Jews did have the possibility of a relationship with God. Further, even Gentiles had that possibility. Look at Enoch, Abel, Job, etc. They embraced the reality of God that was made clear through all that had been created, and they honored Him and enjoyed His presence with them. Now that Christ has paid sin's penalty and risen from the dead, that relationship with God can be different from ever before. God Himself lives inside us when we accept Jesus! No other religion in history offers the indwelling Holy Spirit to its adherents. No other religion offers salvation that is a free gift of grace and divine power that changes us into increasingly Christlike people. Christianity is the only religion in the world that is not do-it-yourself. So, I have to disagree that God created all the world religions. Religions that do not honor the One True God, the Word through Whom all that is, was made, are false deceptions. Just as the serpent in Eden deceigved Eve with evil, so the spirit of the serpent deceives people through the counterfeit deities and religions of the world. Because so many people call themselves "Christian" because they are "western" and vaguely subscribe to Christian values and lifestyles, the definition of "Christian" has become blurred. In reality, no one is really a Christian without a relationship with Jesus. That relationship changes one, and nothing ever looks the same again. The Bible is clear that God holds all people responsible for responding to what has been made known of Him--and He reveals Himself to all those who truly want to know Him and to honor the One True God. The reasons world religions seem to "fit" their geographic areas is that the different cultures have been shaped by the ancient religions of those places, rather than the religions reflecting the culture. Culture reflects people's beliefs and commitments rather than beliefs and commitments reflecting culture. But only God knows a person's heart. God can see the heart that wants to know truth, that seeks Him. He alone can judge because He alone knows the hearts of men. Praise God for giving Himself to us! Colleen | ||
| Freeatlast Registered user Username: Freeatlast Post Number: 271 Registered: 5-2002 |
All religions do not lead to the one true God any more than all roads lead to Miami. | ||
| Dd Registered user Username: Dd Post Number: 322 Registered: 7-2004 |
Chris, No reproof or correction is needed. Apart from Jesus Christ there is no life.."Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God" (John 3:5) "Water" does not mean the "liquid" substance or baptism. To me it means the Word of God (see Ps. 119:9; John 15:3; Eph. 5:26). The Word of God leaves no doubt as to the Source of our salvation. Psalms 51 is a beautiful description of life being "born of water". I'm with you all the way, Chris! GIVE ME JESUS! | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1406 Registered: 11-2002 |
So, Chris, Won't those be saved who just don't understand the concept of Christianty? I persoally know a lot of non-Christians. In my understanding of the difinations of the words "hearing" and "understanding" the words are far different in their difinations. One can hear about Jesus and His saving grace yet often those people are from a culture and a religious background that true understanding of the concept of Jesus being God, etc. just doesn't fit into their cultural understanding. This iss probably one of the main things that I admire about the Catholic missionaries. They let the native peoples keep a lot of their native religion and religious traditions and just somehow incorperate those traditions and customs with Chrisianity. I like that. It's win-win situtation. They become Christian and at the same time they get to keep that witch has been held as their traditions that their people have had since forever. I said this same stuff to a wonderful lady I know from church. Her and her husband are retired Lutheran missionaries and ministers. She set me stright. She told me the same as you, Chris, that only those who have given their lives to Jesus and accept His grace will see heaven. I just think that is so limiting of God. Again, I can only sum it up by saying that I am thankful I believe in a fair and just God because then however it turns out I know in my heart will be for the best. | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1407 Registered: 11-2002 |
Colleen, you mentioned the triune God of Christianity. I recently had a semi-SDA tell me that the Jews, the Christians and the Moslems all worship the same god. I corrected him and told him that wasn't so as only Christians worship the triune god of God the Father, God the Holy Spirit and God the son, Jesus Christ. I do not believe just because all the religions believe in one supreme authority that they believe in the same supreme authority. Only Christianity has the trinity. The semi-Adventist I was speeking with then told me I was off base because the belief in one God would be the same God to everyone if there really is only one god. But,even when Joe Liberman was running for vice president and all the SDA's I know were all a-gaa-gaa about possibly havng a Sabbath-keeper in the White House I would point out to them that Senator Liberman was not Christian. Then I woud tell them I was going to vote for the Christian that was running and the conversation would deteriorate very fast. But, I don't believe the Jews pray to the same God as Christians. And,I say this because Christians pray to the triune God. The Jews do not. I think I am rght about this but the SDA's I know think I'm being too nit-picky. | ||
| Tracey Registered user Username: Tracey Post Number: 157 Registered: 9-2004 |
Colleen, you are so on point. Susan, Our God is the same as the God of the Jews. We pray to the same God. But his Son, the way, truth and life is where we actually become the Seed of Abraham and inherit the promises that were promised to the original seed of Israel. You know that we are the ingrafted seed now and so we are the adopted sons of God, of course. We both pray TO the same God, but we pray IN the name of the Son <and Lord> Jesus. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1317 Registered: 12-2003 |
Susan, Paul was really clear throughout his epistles that syncretism, or blending parts of other religions with Christianity, is wrong. The entire book of Colossians addrsses the problem of Christians adopting other beliefs and practices along with Christianity, and he tells them they must stop. Galatians, too, is about the danger of adopting Jewish traditions/laws along with Christianity. God reveals Himself to people in ways they can recognize Him. That is the message of Romans 1:18. It is very human for us to say it wouldn't be fair of God to exclude someone based on their lack of "hearing" about Jesus. But from God's perspective, "fair" doesn't look the same as it does to us. God knows those who desire to know Truth, and He reveals Himself to them. Jeremiah 29:13 says that when we (anyone) searches for God with all his heart, he will find Him. It is really a straw-man argument to say that those who have never heard of Jesus will be saved on the basis of their sincerity. Everyone will be given the opportunity to say "yes" or "no" to the true God--and He knows how to reveal Himself in a way that each person--whatever their culture--will recognize Him and will be able to choose to follow Him. Colleen | ||
| Thomas1 Registered user Username: Thomas1 Post Number: 159 Registered: 4-2002 |
Dd Bad example. All roads DO lead to Miami. At least if feels that way when I drive around my part of Florida. Where DO they all come from? | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 106 Registered: 8-2004 |
Colleen, check your email when you get a chance! |
