| Author | Message | ||
| Hrobinsonw Registered user Username: Hrobinsonw Post Number: 122 Registered: 7-2004 |
My friend and I are researching mormonism because some people paid a visit to his house. We are looking for ways to refute their doctirine. But we have no clue what mormonism is about. Please help. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1325 Registered: 12-2003 |
Hrob, you can start by going to http://www.utlm.org This website is for Utah Lighthouse Ministry. It's run by former Mormons, and it is perhaps the most comprehensive ministry for explaining and evangelizing Mormons. I think you'll get good and detailed info there--probably more than you can chew in one sitting! Joseph Smith died in 1844, interestingly--the year of the Millerite's Great Disappointment that spawned the Adventists. There is quite a bit of circumstantial evidence that Ellen White and her family had at least casual ties with Mormonism. Her mother and brother both died in Nauvoo, the city where Joseph Smith was murdered in jail. There is also a great similarity between Ellen's first vision and one of Joseph Smith's recorded in The Book of Mormon. Colleen | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1423 Registered: 11-2002 |
Go to Dirks website. On his list of topics he has one on there of similarities of the SDA and the LDS with some interesting things that EGW most likely gleaned from Joseph Smith. | ||
| Tealeaves Registered user Username: Tealeaves Post Number: 194 Registered: 5-2004 |
There are 2 books I would recommend, and of course, i can not remember the name of one of them. They are both written by a former Mormon who was in the priesthood of Melchizedec in their church. (Author was James Spencer, I think) The first is a book called "how to witness to Mormons." The second is the one I cant recall the name of, it is the story of his journey into and out of Mormonism, It is very interesting. The Mormon witnessing book will tell you which questions to ask that Mormonism can not answer, and how to anticipate Mormon doctrinal questions. Both books are pretty simple and useful. | ||
| Lindylou Registered user Username: Lindylou Post Number: 5 Registered: 1-2005 |
Don't you think that dealing with Mormons is much the same as dealing with SDA's? Pretty much the same futile approach. How can you refute a religion with a prophet and their own Bible? Unless they ask questions of you and are seaching themselves - I am not sure there is much you can do to convince them of any other way. | ||
| Pw Registered user Username: Pw Post Number: 287 Registered: 6-2004 |
I had some Mormons come to my door. All you have to ask is if they believe the the angel Moroni showed Joseph Smith the new gospel written on gold plates. Then show them Galatians chapter 1, where Paul says that if anyone or an ANGEL preaches a different gospel let him be eternally condemend. They left after I told them that. | ||
| Hrobinsonw Registered user Username: Hrobinsonw Post Number: 123 Registered: 7-2004 |
Pw - That was powerful. | ||
| Tealeaves Registered user Username: Tealeaves Post Number: 195 Registered: 5-2004 |
correction, the Spencer book is called "Have You Witnessed to a Mormon Lately". | ||
| Tracey Registered user Username: Tracey Post Number: 167 Registered: 9-2004 |
Pw, That made me laugh! Good job!! I love the Word of God! | ||
| Jerry Registered user Username: Jerry Post Number: 433 Registered: 6-2002 |
Ooo! I can't resist: This topic brings up a story from my childhood. We lived in southern Idaho, which as you might imagine, was only slightly less "Mormon" than Utah. Of course, we had young men in short sleeved white shirts show up frequently. So, one day, my oldest sister answered the door. They took one wide-eyed look at her and quickly departed. Oh, did I forget to mention that my sister was an animal lover and had one of her (non-poisonous) snakes around her neck? We had a good laugh. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 977 Registered: 3-2004 |
This reminds me of what my Dad used to do with JW and Mormons. When any come to his door, he would get out his Bible and argue with them. They never won, but Dad never converted any one. He really enjoyed doing that. Me, as an SDA and pseudo SDA before I decided not to rejoin the church, I would invite the Mormons in, offer them a drink of water or juice and we would talk. Then I would ask if we could pray together. They usually said yes. As an SDA I never knew what to say to them unless I told them about the Sabbath. So that is what I do now when the LDS missionaries come by my house and I am at home. Diana | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1434 Registered: 11-2002 |
At least the Mormons and Adventists will pray with and for others. The JW's won't. I once asked my JW sister-in-law to remember a certain person in her prayers. She let me know very clearly that JW's will not pray for the lost except to request that Jehovah open up their hearts to become members of Jehovahs true organization. Then, and only then, will JW's pray for healing, or this or that or intercessary prayer for anyone. They only pray on behalf of members of the JW organization. It's very warped and really sick and perverted. It difinately is not Christian. | ||
| Pw Registered user Username: Pw Post Number: 288 Registered: 6-2004 |
JW's are very selfish. They only look after their own, but only to a certain extent. The real problem is when one of them gets sick or into an accident and they can't accept a blood transfusion. My area has a large JW population and it's a common thing to hear about. | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1435 Registered: 11-2002 |
Pw, My ex-JW-in-laws are committing major welfare/housing authority fraud so they don'have to go to work so they can have more tome to "proclaim the kingdom" the JW term or doorknocking. They shun everything having to do with the government such as saluting the flag, singing the patrotic songs, even a 4th of July barbeque but they sure do line up for all the government assistance they can get. It is my opinion that an exeptionally high percentage of JW's are getting public assistance compared to other religious organizations. I had a young JW girl in my community tell me that her JW elders told her to get public aid for as long as she can so she can proclaim the kindgom and if she needed extra help the organization would pitch in. My ex-JW-sister-in-law runs around her neighborhood trying to make friends with retired miliary people so she can convice them to take her shopping on the bases so she can get her groceries for less money and she doesn't have to pay sales tax on stuff. Then, her granddaughter refused to stand at my house for The Star Spangled Banner. My neighbor who was raised JW told me the organization actually incourages its people to rent rather than own their place so they can have meetings over summer before the kids go back to scool. They figure out the grades all the kids from their congreation wil be in and move the families around so there is at least one JW chld per classroom. This is because in our school district the policy is if even so much as one family disapproves of a birthday party or holilday party then the entire class has to forfit any partys. Yes, it is extremely selfish. Ever since I put a cross over my door the don't come to my door anymore. They are very suspecipious of the cross. | ||
| Tealeaves Registered user Username: Tealeaves Post Number: 196 Registered: 5-2004 |
Interesting to note that the JW prophet was also a follower of Miller (Millerite movement), as was EGW and Mary Baker Eddy of the Scientologists. | ||
| Pw Registered user Username: Pw Post Number: 289 Registered: 6-2004 |
What a story susan. Amazing how those who refuse to do any type of service to their own country still want to take for granted what they can get out of it. A funny incident at my office a couple years ago. One girl couldn't stand a co-worker who was a JW, and to get even she would play Christmas music all day long just to annoy her. It worked. The JW ended up leaving the office for good. Of course, neither one was a real Christian but it was rather humorous to see this take place. From what I've experienced between JW's and Mormons, it seems the Mormons are more flexible and possibly more open to the truth comapred to the JW's when it comes to discussing the Bible and Jesus. But then again it depends on who you're dealing with personally. However, just like us when we were SDA's, we were very rigid in our beliefs and would not budge for anyone, until God opened our eyes. All we can do is challenge them to really look into what they hold as truth and pray for them. | ||
| Vchowdhury1 Registered user Username: Vchowdhury1 Post Number: 116 Registered: 7-2004 |
Hrobinsonw, its not easy to "argue" and win with legalistic cult-like demoninations such as sda, jw, mormons, wwcg, etc. These people are brainwashed and set in their beliefs as with most cults (some for years and years). Me, personally, I think its a waste of time to even "engage" them in debate (thats why I found CARM a waste of time, in my opinion). Take for example, I have shown a lot of my friends and family (who are still sda) scriptures in the Bible that disproves most of their doctrine. This does not matter to them. Their response to me is always "Well, thats your interpretation, you can't take everything in the Bible literally"! But yet, what THEY WANT to believe, they sure as heck take literally, e.g. Exodus 20, Leviticus, etc. I think, the only way to "win over" a mormon, jw, sda, etc., is if you catch them in an vulnerable "open minded" state. Meaning, something would have had to happen within their church to start them thinking about their whole experience with that particular sect. That was my story. My former married sda minister got one of my best friends pregnant when he was still the pastor of my former church. And, another minister from the same church was fired from the ministry because of theft, and another sda minister in another city was arrested on suspicion of pedophilia. Also, there was a lot more incidents of selfishness, sexual misconduct, mistreatment of other members, etc, etc. Now, I know people are human whether or not they are ministers, they will make "mistakes", but the sda's always touted themselves as being the "true" church with the "true" gospel. Then if that was so, where are all these serious lapses of judgement coming from? From there, I began to really study the doctrines of the church as well as the doctrines of the Bible, and I found the doctrines of the sda church seriously lacking, (e.g. the false visions of EGW, etc). I also began to think that because sda's think that they are the "true" church, they think that they can get away with anything, as long as they keep the sabbath, and believe in the 3rd Angels message, I think that most of them think they have a chance of being saved because of their membership in the sda organization. The blatant hypocracy began to sicken me. I became open minded to seriously questioning the sda church, and from that, as well as studying the New Testement intensly (the pages of my Bible are tearing off from so much studying) I came to the conclusion that I could no longer be in support and connected with the sda organization. But, it took sometime for me to give up all aspects of the organization. First, I started not attending services on "sabbath" morning. Then, I started wearing jewelry in front of my sda family and friends. Then months later, The Lord revealed to me that it was not wrong to eat certain types of foods that I was always told that it was a sin to eat (by the dictates of EGW), And last but not least, it took me 4 years after leaving the sda church (I was a member for over 35 years) to actually give up the "Sabbath". Then after that, it took me months to actually start attending a church that worships on Sunday. And now, the hardest part is admitting to sda friends and family that I DO attend a "Sunday" worship service. And believe me, this WAS the hardest part, but now its done  It was hard because I know that my staunch sda family and friends look at me now as being "lost", mis-lead, Rebellious, etc. So you see, its not easy. But, I guess it wouldn't be wrong to "plant a seed" for some of these people to think about years later. --Valerie | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1438 Registered: 11-2002 |
WOW, Valerie, what a testemony you just gave. It is very powerful. I was taught in the SDA church that Adventist's are the ONLY church that interperts the Bible literally. | ||
| Praisegod Registered user Username: Praisegod Post Number: 222 Registered: 3-2004 |
Valerie, I don't believe anyone is engaging in CARM because they feel they'll convince the Adventists over there. Rather, it's a way to keep a dialogue going for onlookers. Kind of like we know people searching are lurking here at FAF. (waving to all of you.) My concern on these forums are the ones who are seriously checking out Adventists and think all the wonderful things they've heard so far at the Revelation Seminar sounds just great. They need to hear the whole truth before getting involved. When my kids had a good friend who was studying with Mormons, they found a CARM site on Mormonism to be a great deal of help so they could learn in order to help him. But I agree that posting to forums is a pretty thankless task unless you know God is specifically calling you to it. Praise God... | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1339 Registered: 12-2003 |
Valerie, thank you for sharing your story with us. It really is powerful, as Susan said. Praise God for the way He keeps leading us and not leaving us where He finds us! Colleen |
