| Author | Message | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 310 Registered: 10-2004  |
I'm now going to post more clips from the sermon that I posted clips from on the "Cult-like Features" thread. Here are the three clips I posted in that thread: "God, who is an Adventist god..." "God is Adventist" Adam and Eve were Adventist Here is a funny clip where he is talking about the SDA's "peculiar beliefs"! He talked about how SDAs like to talk when witnessing about their "faith" (to other Christians of course!) He talked about the "pagan idea of the immortality of the soul" and said that SDAs "believe in the Biblical notion of the resurrection of the dead," making it sound like Christians don't believe in the resurrection! And he actually says outright that we don't have eternal life now, but that eternal life comes at the resurrection! Listen to it here. He asked what the "passion of Adventism" is, and someone said "Jesus" and he said they had the wrong answer! Listen here. Then he admitted that the SDA church keeps dead people on their membership records! He said he knew the membership rolls "went back a long time," whatever that means. You can listen to that here. Then he claimed that on the 2000 US Census it asked people what their religious affiliation was and 2 million people said they considered themselves to be SDA. But this appears to be a big lie/urban legend. I searched Google, and it seems the US Census does not even ask people about their religious affiliation! Listen to his amazing comments about it here. Then he says that WE can "nullify the love of God," something that God can't even do! He makes it sound as if we are more powerful than God!! Listen to that here. There were many other things he said that I could have made into clips, but that is all I did. It was one amazing sermon--totally and thoroughly Adventist. Jeremy | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1437 Registered: 11-2002 |
Jeremy, I do not have a real computer so I can't listen to anything. I have what is called Webtv. It is only Internet and e-mail. However, I will have access to a real computer this next weekend and I will listen to the trash talk then. So, what is the passion of Adventism? Does this person by any chance write for the Signs of the Times because I sure read a lot of loony stuff in the Signs. Is he well known in is area of SDA'ism? Is he along the Jan Marcussian bent on things? Is this fellow in good standing with the conference? I sometimes read the entries on CARM. There are several SDA's on there who are totally whack-o. They especially get whack-o when defending abortion and EGW and then trying to say the SDA's have "the health message". I used to read the loonys over on FAF but the SDA's cancelled the disussion on that site. It's totally closed. Too bad too because there were several regulars on there who although SDA fully understood the gosple and understood the concept of grace and the law and everything else and they would try to share with the others. So the SDA's that run the website cancelled the discussion board. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1338 Registered: 12-2003 |
Soooo, the loonys on FAF have been cancelled? Wow, Susan--I'm pretty sure you have a different name in mind unless there's another site besides ours that's abbreviated FAF! Actually, that's pretty funny!! Colleen | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 311 Registered: 10-2004 |
Wow, I did not know that VOAF was shut down until now. I had quit going there. The guy who preached the sermon is Frank Gonzalez, and this was at the 2003 Arizona camp meeting--the conference camp meeting. So I assume he is in good standing with the conference. I don't think he is fringe at all, I think he represents traditional, mainstream Adventism. His sermon was just completely and thoroughly Adventist. Searching on Google, it appears he is a pretty big guy in Adventism. He is an evangelist and has a Spanish radio program. "Frank Gonzalez is the Speaker/Director of the international radio broadcast La Voz de la Esperanza (The Voice of Hope) based at the Adventist Media Center. La Voz is heard in 35 countries, including the U.S., on nearly 700 stations."--http://www.nadadventist.org/article/view/358 You can see his photo at that web site. He is also employed by the North American Division it appears, as a "field secretary" for the NAD. So he is certainly mainstream Adventist, in good standing! Jeremy | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 981 Registered: 3-2004 |
I just looked up the SDA site where it tells of Gonzalez. It says he preaches a dynamic, powerful, GOSPEL based sermon. Thank God for men like Rey Cantu who can preach in Spanish as well. Now, his sermons, I am sure are Gospel based sermons. SDAs get away with all kinds of stuff and hide what they do not want any one to see. All I can say is I am glad I have accepted Christ and He has forgiven me and redeemed my past. I would like to see that happen to all SDAs. God is an awesome God. Diana | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1439 Registered: 11-2002 |
Colleen, I guess us loonys have transferred over here. I'm just teasing. I ment to say Voluntary Adventist Forum. I apologise. Thank-you for taking my error so nicely. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 982 Registered: 3-2004 |
I just wrote an email to Mr Gonzalez asking him to show me from the Bible where it says Jesus is an Adventist and where it says Adam and Eve were Adventist. I asked that his reply be only from the Bible as that is what I rely on. I will see if he answers. If he does not I will not be surprised. God gives me courage to do things like this and leaves me in awe of Him. Diana | ||
| Tracey Registered user Username: Tracey Post Number: 171 Registered: 9-2004 |
Diana, You go girl! Be sure to let us know what he replies to you.. Tracey | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 312 Registered: 10-2004 |
"ANGEL" SUPPOSEDLY "PREDICTED" 9/11; CLAIMS SOMETHING WORSE WILL HAPPEN IN 2005! The other day, we got a letter in the mail from Bob Parrish from the Arizona Conference of Seventh-day Adventists. Someone posted on here awhile back a similar story to the one in this letter, about Soo the Laotian lady who had an angel visit her, but this is amazing--especially coming from a conference guy and his comments! It even claims that the angel predicted 9/11 and says that "something worse" is going to happen in 2005 and then there will be a Sunday law!!! I scanned the letter and you can see it here. I could not find anything at the bibleplus.org web site about Soo like the letter talked about, but by searching on Google I was able to find more info and a link to the page at the bibleplus.org site. Here are some links for further info: http://english.sdaglobal.org/testimony/sootrue.htm http://www.ucheepines.org/Soo.htm -- Uchee Pines' President verifies the story! http://www.bibleplus.org/Soo/ It sounds like this story is not completely made up. It appears that a demon really may have visited her--very creepy!!! At that last link, at bibleplus.org, you can even listen to audio and watch video of interviews with Soo etc.!!! It's too spooky, I don't want to watch or listen to it--but some of you may want to. Jeremy | ||
| Derrell Registered user Username: Derrell Post Number: 40 Registered: 10-2002 |
People who make predictions (especially apocalyptic ones), have visions, dream prophetic dreams, experience angelic visitations, etc. have no credibility with me. I have seen far too much of that garbage. I have received lots of emails about Soo and her predictions. It is no different than all the others. | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1442 Registered: 11-2002 |
Something worse that 9-11 has already happened in 2005 if you are going by lives devistated and money needed to repair the damage. And, this would be the tsunami. Of course, one is an act of evil people and the other is an act of nature but still in just assessing the damage the tsunami is of a much greater devistation than the 9-11 attacks. I also refuse to watch or listen to that paranormal stuff. | ||
| Praisegod Registered user Username: Praisegod Post Number: 224 Registered: 3-2004  |
I didn't look at the video but I did check out the websites. It seems pretty clear to me that there can be only two ways: it's from God and all of us are wrong or it's from the devil. It would seem doubtful that it's all just made up. If we discount supernatural events because of our western worldview, I believe we end up being unaware of quite a bit going on worldwide. It seems to me most missionaries will tell you that supernatural events are quite a common occurrence in other countries. Praise God... | ||
| Lindylou Registered user Username: Lindylou Post Number: 9 Registered: 1-2005 |
Don't you know it, Susan_2! I have family members into this scare tactic kind of stuff. One claims to have spoken to Soo in person and so it must be true according to her. My relatives are actually getting into something that really makes me sad - they call it the "4th Angels Message" It is the belief that we should all be keeping the Jewish holidays and NOT keep Christmas or Easter because they are Satan's holy days! This "new light" is presented with the scare tactics of above - Something awful is going to happen in 2005! Duh! We know that things are going to get worse - How does that change how I should live when I know the Grace of God? I get very weary of these kinds of things - especially since I was a sucker to them myself some years back. I shake my head in wonder, how I let myself fall for such stuff. But I think that it was at that time that I realized that my SDA upbringing set me up for it and I really started taking a look at how I was raised. In regards to Soo's testimony - It cracks me up that the "angel" told her to go to all the SDA media/evangelistic organizations so that she would find truth. That in itself - tells you something is not right. Anyway,, I could go on and on about these offshoot fanatics. I'm sorry to say this kind of thing runs in my husband's side of the family. I know they mean well.. but..... Why can't they simply believe in the gospel of Jesus? Are they so insecure that they need these tight boundaries around them? It is a puzzle to me. | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1444 Registered: 11-2002 |
Lindylou, yes, it is easy to become a fullblown fanatic after getting one step in the door of extreme legalism. For many people it's a natural progression. For others they know where and when to apply the breaks. Having said that, I do believe SDA, JW's and LDS's are more prone to getting way farout than are mainstream Christians. I commented this to a SDA relative recently. She then asked me if there are any fanitic Lutherans. I told her there are but it's good to be a fanatic Lutheran because to get fanitical about Grace is good.I guess I was being a tad bit sarcastic but I still ment what I said. I never did understand what the SDA's are talking about when they pound on and on about the third angel's message. Aren't there seven angels in that passage of Revelation? Don't the other angels count at all? What's so much more special about the third angel? And, yes, there does seem to be a move towards keping the OT holy days. I just thought is was the leftover influence of Herbert W. Armstrong. I had one SDA aunt who was so much into conspiricious theories that it was hard keeping track of all those things. Jesuits infiltererating the SDA church, something about the Illumaniti, something else about the Masons and then there was even the CIA and the FBI in some of this. I think somehow they were all connected with the Romish religion to hussle in the Sunday laws. She could get really spun. Then on the other side of my family was one uncle who would not eat in restruants because the dishes and utinsils were contaminated because they had been touched by pork. Never mind that they had gone through the dishwasher. Several blocks from my house lives a lady who identifies herself as a Historic Adventist. She has not even been in the local SDA church or any other SDA church in years because of the Jesuit spies in there. She devoures that Jan Marcussian stuff. She leaves the book National Sunday Law in numerous places around the community for suckers to pick up and get the truth. This lady is living on Housing Authority assistance and disability and really needs to be spending her money on her needs. She told me one day she knows people in this community are hungering for the truth because all the books and literature she places around town are always gone when she goes back to check. Yeah, it gets thrown into the trash. It really is very sad. | ||
| Loneviking Registered user Username: Loneviking Post Number: 312 Registered: 7-2000 |
What's creepy is that last night, in the Bible study class I teach, the subject came around to occult phenomenom and the cults. We have been studying cults and false teachings. We were on the subject of 'sola scriptura'---and discussing how rejecting this foundational truth opens a person or group up to all sorts of error and even demonic activity. Either the Bible is authoritative, verbally inspired and inerrant---or you have to look elsewhere for your authority. The SDA church adamantly believes in 'thought inspiration' and says that the Bible contains errors---thus E.G. White is their authority. This woman, Soo, has many of the same phenomena as E.G. White had---so she must be genuine (the SDA's think)! They don't compare her story to Scripture---did you notice that? It is all about the things that she couldn't have known and the description of the angel. Riiight---and Satan doesn't know this? The only positive spin on this whole mess that I can think of is that it's another sign of how soon the return of Christ must be. | ||
| Lindylou Registered user Username: Lindylou Post Number: 10 Registered: 1-2005 |
Aren't we people interesting creatures? I guess I shouldn't really be puzzled by fanaticism. Especially since I went there once myself. I think it is attractive because it feeds into the "I am special" mentality. I was one of those suckers that thought it important to distribute the National Sunday Law book - we even went door to door and gave it out with a loaf of bread! That was over 17 years ago! Makes me laugh and cringe at the same time. One of my relatives gave me a book to read called, "The Testimony of the Moon." It was meant to convince me of the "4th Angels" message. It basically said that in order to be a part of the 144,000 and be sealed by God you must: Keep all the Torah, (the 1st 5 books of the Bible) Observe the 7 feast days of Leviticus 23. NOT observe anything with pagan roots, including Christmas, Easter and Halloween. Eradicate all sin from your life. Follow Christ's example in all things. This sounds somewhat familiar doesn't it? I know that Jesus is NOT my example, He is my Substitute! Praise God! | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1445 Registered: 11-2002 |
What is thought inspiration? Aren't there actually seven angels mentioned in that Rev. passage? The loaf of bead sounds good. | ||
| Goldenbear Registered user Username: Goldenbear Post Number: 50 Registered: 12-2004 |
My wife just asked me if they haven't translated the EGW stuff into Lao yet? With all the pages that have published and sent around the world, was there just not any money to be made in Laos? I can't imagine that it hadn't been translated. The other thing that bothered me is the reference that she said the "angel" told her that after a certain point a person must keep the ten commandments in order to be saved. That is just not true! The most interesting point is that the letter that was shared was a fundraising letter. Since I am in the business of fundraising, I must admit it is a good one. Has all the emotional appeal, etc. But if they really believe this, why tie it to only native americans.... I have heard these types of stories all my life, and it just doesn't ring true. Now if Bill Clinton becomes UN Sec. Gen. then..............  | ||
| Bb Registered user Username: Bb Post Number: 64 Registered: 7-2004 |
Wow, I was visiting my SDA mother recently and of course she shared this Soo letter with me. I had a hard time overcoming my usual gut reaction that I have always had since a child....fear of the end times....and discussed it with my level headed sister who said it was garbage. But you all are making interesting points here..especially about them not comparing it to the Bible. It's definitely going to scare some SDA's into trying to become perfect! Several years ago in my old SDA church a young couple were really into this Jewish feast observance thing. It never went over there, and they moved away, but it is just adding more burdens it looks like to me. Also, several years ago as a strong SDA I attended a camp meeting up north and heard Frank Gonzalez speak, and he was very grace filled to me at the time. Of course at this point I would hear it differently and not through adventist ears. Now, I have a question. Today, I happened to watch a little of Jack Van Impe, and he was really upset with religions that preach "replacement theology". I believe that is what the SDA's teach, am I right? That when God is talking about Isreal we are to replace it with "the church". He made sense, and why "replace" His words? Is Isreal fulfilling prophecy now, and do adventists see this or ignore it? | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 988 Registered: 3-2004  |
I seem to remember Paul writing some where that even if an angel comes and tells you something, and it is different from what Jesus has taught us in the Bible, that angel is not from God. I do not have the exact quote, but it is something like the above. I do not trust that angel. God is so awesome and He would not teach something different than what we have in the Bible. Diana |
