| Author | Message | ||
| Lindylou Registered user Username: Lindylou Post Number: 18 Registered: 1-2005 |
In your spiritual journey do you ever feel alone, Or deserted? Unworthy? Or discarded? I would guess that most of us have felt this way at one time or another. And I would venture to conjecture that if you are person like myself who is in the process of - or has already turned your back on the doctrinal beliefs of your childhood, that these feelings have invaded your being in some very heart-rending moments - like trying to explain yourself to your family and friends. It can sometimes make you doubt your rebirth experience. I hope you don't mind me sharing a wonderful passage that I recently discovered in Ezekial 16. It is the story of an abandoned, discarded baby: Verse 4: "As for your nativity, on the day you were born, your navel cord was not cut, nor were you washed in water to cleanse you. You were not rubbed with salt, nor swathed in swaddling cloth. No eye pitied you, to do any of these things for you to have compassion on you, but you were THROWN OUT into the open field, when you yourself were LOATHED on the day you were born." Those words bring tears to my eyes. I remember the day my youngest daughter was born. I gave birth to her in a primitive hospital on an island far from here. The doctor just hastily wiped her off and handed her to me. It was left up to me to wrap her in a blanket and take her home. I remember the desire I had to quickly give her a warm, cleansing bath and make her squeaky clean. And that is just what God did when He found this little thrown away infant - Verse 6: "And when I passed by you and saw you struggling in your own blood, I said to you in your blood, 'Live!' 'Yes, Live!' (Verse 9) Then I washed you in water, yes I thoroughly washed off your blood and I anointed you with oil." "I made you thrive like a plant in the field; and you grew, matured, and became beautiful....." The verses continue the story by telling how God covered this child's nakedness with His wings and entered into a covenant with her. "And you became Mine!" He adorned her with all sorts of fine cloth and beautiful jewelry, even putting a jewel in her nose!  "You were exceedingly beautiful and SUCCEEDED TO ROYALTY!" (Wow!) The next verse makes a big impact on me: Verse 14: "Your fame went out among the nations because of your beauty, for it was perfect - through MY SPLENDOR WHICH I HAD BESTOWED ON YOU!" What a wonderful reminder to us that it is ALL about JESUS and nothing about us! There's even more to this story - you'll read it in the rest of the chapter. Even after this royal treatment by God, this child grows up to reject everything about God. And yet.... there is such hope and abundant Grace - look at verses 60-63: "I will establish My covenant with you. Then you shall know that I am the Lord, that you may remember and be ashamed and never open your mouth anymore because of your shame, WHEN I PROVIDE YOU AN ATONEMENT FOR ALL YOU HAVE DONE!" says the Lord God. Amen! It is my prayer for you today, that you will find comfort and blessing from God's word. When you feel lonely or discouraged - or if you start to doubt your freedom in Christ - remember this story and take courage. | ||
| Randyg Registered user Username: Randyg Post Number: 12 Registered: 12-2004 |
Lindylou...thank-you for sharing this wonderful chapter. The fears and struggles you mention early on you post are a result of our common backgrounds(legalism,SDA,EGW...).We our fortunate to have this safe haven (FAF) not only to share our hurts and frustrations,but also to share God's leading and to lift each other up. We are not deserted.We are not unworthy.We are not discarded. Jesus paid the price for our sins, it however is difficult to appreciate and accept the freedom of the gift. Thank-you for sharing....Randy | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1458 Registered: 11-2002 |
Lindylou, That is a wonderful chapter. I will read it and meditate over it later. I frequently go sit at the sea early in the mornings and read Bible passages and other devotional readings, also write letters and sometimes sleep. This sounds like a sitting at the sea passage. Several of my children and me are going back to live in the jungle on a remote island soon. I will say a proper good-by to everone on this forum before I leave because I will not have access to electronic things. Me and several of my children have finily realized we just haven't done a very good job of acclamating to living in society. I'm happy to hear that your baby was fine. I know some hippies that had their baby just five weeks ago in the back of their van. They are vagabonds. Thanks for the wonderful passage. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1007 Registered: 3-2004  |
As an SDA I felt unworthy, discarded, deserted and discarded. Growing up in the SDA church I felt I could never be good enough. It was my 12 step program that deprogrammed my brain of these thoughts and feelings, so many of them caused by my religious upbringing. It was not until I found out about the plagiarism of EGW and the Bible study I have done in the past year, that I see that my 12 step program deprogrammed me of lots of things I was not aware were there. I no longer feel any of those things when it comes to God and Jesus and what Jesus has done for me. God is awesome. Diana | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1361 Registered: 12-2003  |
Thank you for sharing that chapter, Lindylou! Christ's righteousness makes us beautiful and redeems our abadnoment. I'm so thankful. Colleen | ||
| Tdf Registered user Username: Tdf Post Number: 38 Registered: 11-2004 |
Thanks for sharing your post Lindylou! Right now, my wife and I are in the process of "going public" with the changes that God has been performing in our hearts and lives. As I read your post, I considered my own feelings of abandonment and rejection. It strikes me that we serve a God who is bigger than doctrine, bigger than discord, bigger than denominationalism, bigger than rejection and abandonment. Lindylou, your post reminds me that this amazing God LOVES ME!! And He loves YOU! He longs to pick us up, broken as we are, and to tell us of His love, to assure us of His desire to be with us, to express sadness for our hurts and joy for our victories. We serve a God who truly has our best interest at heart. I know that there are many who log onto FAF who are hurting in very real ways. I hope that we can be the arms and the feet that share His love with each of them in a very real and personal way. If as you read this post you feel abandoned, simply know that, though men may abandon you, your God never will! tdf | ||
| Dane Registered user Username: Dane Post Number: 102 Registered: 4-2004 |
It brings tears to my heart as I realize again the pain that formers and soon-to-be formers go through. My wife and I have been out of SDA so long that we tend to forget that pain. We had it for a long time, but it slowly diminished and then, one day we realized that it had evaporated like the fog as the sunshine of His love dispelled it. To those who are hurting I say, don't give up. Learn to rest in His perfect love. He will see you through. We are continually praying for all of you. We serve an AWESOME GOD Who is more than able to provide us with all our needs, especially our need for mental, emotional, and spiritual peace. Blessings Dane | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1370 Registered: 12-2003 |
You're right, Dane--God is so faithful. He really does heal our wounds and redeem the years the locusts ate. Colleen | ||
| Tealeaves Registered user Username: Tealeaves Post Number: 206 Registered: 5-2004 |
Susan, When you spoke of going to an island to live with your kids, I had this pang of longing. I would literally love to go with you! I loved living in the jungle in Borneo for a summer, and being a student in Europe, just being "less fettered". Actually, my husband and I plan to take our children and take a sabbatical in a foreign country for a while. In a few years, anyway. Right now, there are just other things that need to be tended to first for us. I envy you that. Enjoy your time! -tanya- | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1477 Registered: 11-2002 |
Actually, Tealeaves, myself and the two adult children that are moving, we all have various degrees of Tourette Syndrome and the youngest one also has paranoid schitzophrenia. I will probably be out there only a few months to help my sons get situtated. I have a lot of responsibilities here that I can't abandon. However, I will have to go back frequently to check on them and hopefully stay at least a month with them at each trip. The plan is for the older one to get part-time employment. He gets jobs very easy and he is a good worker. The younger one is on disability. So between them they can hippie out a van and do o.k. The younger one especially does very good when he is in a living situtation in which all his waking time is spent trying to hussle the days needs, climbing trees to get fruit to eat, fishing to get the protein he needs, and so on. Then by dark he is worn out and ready to sleep. I know it sounds kind-of primative but when he's living that sort of life he is not in jail, he is not in grouphomes and he is taking responsibility for his own survival and at the same time having a good time. Last time he spent a year in a tent way out in the jungle this son of mine learned how to whistle all the different birds sounds. He'd sit out under the trees and do his bird sounds and the birds would whistle back. It was so wonderful! I have a photograph in my album of him communicating with the birds. It will be good. He just is not one for living in society. I will say a proper good-by on here before I leave. Tealeaves, Colleen can send you my e-mail. I would like to earn some survival tips from you. The secrets to keeping healthy and sane. Thank-you for sharing your experiences. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1027 Registered: 3-2004 |
Susan, I have never, ever, in my life been out in the jungle the way you are planning to do. WOW!!! I admire you and your boys. I will be praying for all 3 of you and after you come back, your boys will continue to be in my prayers. As you said, at least your youngest will not be in a group home, in jail, and he is taking responsibility for himself. I see only good in all that. Take care my friend and always remember we have an awesome God. Diana | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1478 Registered: 11-2002 |
And, there is an awsome little Baptist church in the little town near there. I have attended services at that church several times. They even have potluck after the Sunday sermon. Way far out on a jungle road is the SDA church. I even went there once. I came away from that church in total amazement and feeling very sad for the poeple who go there. The members have been convinced that the SDA church has all truth and every other religious body has all error. The literatre rack in the back of the church was only Joe Crews pamphlets. But, it didn't really matter because most of the adults in the congreation are illiterate. Therefore, whatever the SDA preacher tells them they know it's the total truth because like I said, they are told the SDA's have all truth. The sermon at that SDA church was the weirdest sermon I have ever heard. This area has a lot of spiritism in its culture. We went to this SDA church on the Saturday before Holloween. I want you to know this was not years and years ago. It was in Oct. 2002. The minister got up and talked about the evil of partisipating in Holloween. He said God is testing His people to know if they are truly His because if the people take part in any Holloween festivities then God knows they really aren't His. If a real Christian takes part in Holloween then that Christian will be struck dead right there and then on the spot. Then, and I'm not making this up, the minister looked at the congreation right in the eyes and he said, "Now, I know what you're all thinking. You're thinking, 'then how come when I get up and go outside on Nov 1st I don't see all these dead Christians laying around on the roadside'. Well, satan takes care of his own. If someone is taking part in a Holloween festival or party then satan knows he has that person and staten takes care of his own." Then after he scared the heebee-jeebees out of everyone the service was over and there was the food, which was another totally wild experience which I'll share another time. The people seemed very distrustful of me and my sons being at their church. I don't think they were used to visitors. I took pictures of that little jungle SDA church. The miniser didn't even shake our hands or say hello to any of us and there couldn't have been more than around 40 people there. It was a very strange place. Then the next week we went to the little Baptist church in town and those folks were so welcoming that I still have snailmail penpals from there. The minister and his wife even offered to drive the extra 10 miles to our place to come get us so we could attend church. The saddest thing though was telling my mom. Before I left I asked her what she'd like from me. I thought a trinket or a basket, something tangeable. She just asked me for one thing. And, that was to attend a SDA church over there if I could find one. So I did. Then when I got back she asked me to tell her about it and I did. Then my son told her the SDA preacher said if he goes to a Holloween party God will strike him dead so he won't go to the SDA church anynore because he thought that was really farout. I just felt so bad for my elderly SDA mother. Especially then when I got a lovely calander from the Baptist church as a gift and she sees it hanging in my kitchen whenever she comes over. | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 478 Registered: 1-2003 |
I saw Hawaii last night on the Amazing Race on tv and thought of you, Susan2. I admit I was envious too! Seems so slow paced and restful! | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1483 Registered: 11-2002 |
Within two miles from our home was four communes that I knew of. People like to purchase a little plot of land and put in a commune. Even if there are others not far in distance it seems like total isolation because as the sayig goes, You can't see the jungle because of the trees. The folks are very isolated and have great privacy. There was the Hare Krishna commune. I lovd going to the Krishna gatherings.I figured if I'm going to hang out with a cult I'll go to one that knows it's a cult and at least can have a good time doing their cult thing. After the weekly gatherings they provide an awsome vegetarian feast. No meat or eggs. The food is wonderful. Then there is the lesbian commune. These aren't your normal lesbians like we have here. These are the total man hating lesbians who just can't acclamate in society where 50% of the population are men. Me and my sons would be walking down the road and we'd say "Good morning" to these ladies. They would come up to me, put their arm around me and give me a good morning kiss. Then my sons would say "Good morning" to them and they'd come and get right in front of the guys and spit. They do not like men. Then there was the Deadhead commune. I liked them alot. They had speekers that blasted Grateful Dead tunes far out from the compound. They were real nice people. And, then there was the organic farm commune. They sold fruit and vegetables but they usually gave it away because most the locals were too poor to buy from them. The were real nice, too. Except for the lesbians most the others had dreadlocks and went around playing their bongo drus. It is a way different experience than out here. | ||
| Seekr777 Registered user Username: Seekr777 Post Number: 41 Registered: 1-2003  |
Susan2, I'm not sure where in Hawaii you are since I'm having trouble keeping track of everyone I see on this forum. When I heard the name "hawaii" my ears perked up since I remember a wonderful time I had on the island of Maui some years ago. I was driving along the main road and saw a sign about the first service that was going to be held in a new Assemblies of God church that was just finished, I thought name of the guest speaker sounded familiar and I suddenly realized who he was. His name was Rev. Cho and he was the head pastor of the largest Christian church in the world which is in Korea. I made an effort to be back that Sunday and was very blessed with the simple Gospel message that he preached. He was soft spoken and spoke simply without putting on a show but his words were powerful and showed a closeness in his personal walk with Christ. I wonder if any of you have been to Maui and possible been to this church. This was the very first service that they were holding and there were still some lifts in the back of the church which had been used earlier that morning to put in the last lights. Richard | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1489 Registered: 11-2002 |
Richard, We will be living in Puna. "Every day in Hawaii begins in Puna", that's the saying and look at the globe and you will see that it is true. I ave not been on any f the islands except for Hawaii and Ohau. I did attend the very first Christian church that was established in Hawaiil. It is over 500 years old. Some of the origional adobe still shows. It is Congreationalist. The service was cool. It was completely bilingual, English and Hawaiian. My children and I like to be out in the more undeveloped areas. We honestly don't mind being the only heaole's around. Did you see the article in the Recorder about the SDA school on Maui? The conference wanted to close it because it only had one student and the conference couldn't justify paying the teacher and the oher expenses for only one child. So the kid got busy and got three more kids in the community to come to her school. Now the school has four children so the conference is letting the school stay open. I was really impressed with that childs wherewithall! | ||
| Seekr777 Registered user Username: Seekr777 Post Number: 44 Registered: 1-2003 |
Susan, I had to check to see where Puna was for sure. If I'm correct it is on the East side of the big island. I was on the big island a few years ago for a couple of weeks. We stayed about 4-5 five days in 4 different areas. My favorite places to explore were near Hilo. There was a feeling of "real people" and not as many tourists. We explored the "funky" little resturants and found little "hole in the walls" to try out. I may ask you to check out some places to stay. If I come over alone I'd love a small room with a desk to study and some quiet space and a view. If my wife comes over it will probably need a little more space. <grin> richard | ||
| Goldenbear Registered user Username: Goldenbear Post Number: 52 Registered: 12-2004  |
It seems like Hawaii here in western Montana. We have had sun and temperatures in the 50's this week. If work wasn't so busy, I would be tempted to run out and play golf. Well back to the theme of this thread. After basically not seeing our pastor for over 9 months, he showed up at work the other day. I was extremely nervous and just couldn't get up the guts to confront and say what was going on in our lives. I was afraid! It doesn't make me feel very great, but I just didn't want to deal with all of the fall out that would come from it. So instead we just talked about all sorts of adventist trivia. What was happening in the church hiearchy, etc... After a lifetime of involvement in the adventist culture (counterculture or whatever) it is so difficult to actually turn in your "membership card". After having worked with teens most of my life I find that leaving the church is a lot like breaking up with your teen girlfriend, the angst of breaking up is not over the person, but is many times over the loss, itself. We have found a great church, but connections take time. You know it is odd, the adventist culture so integrates all parts of your life that anytime you interupt it, it has the possibility of killing all other parts. Is that disfunctional or what. If I hadn't found a way to interact with other Christians I don't know if I would have found my way out. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1039 Registered: 3-2004 |
Goldenbear, What was his reason for showing up at work? Has he done that before, like before you began to change? It may be he knew that if he showed up at your work, you would not say anything and he would not have to face it. I am just guessing. Where in Montana do you live? I have a brother in Helena, Montana. I have visited the area and fell in love with it. Now I know why it is called the Big Sky Country. I can understand why some call it God's country. Diana | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1491 Registered: 11-2002 |
Richard, Yes, Hilo is where we will be living. Or at least in that general area. Around 15 miles from Hilo is a wonderful, funky litte Hippie town called, Pahoa. You can put under search on the computer Pahoa and see pictures of the village. Down the street a ways is a village called, Poheikei. Poheikei has a population of around 300. There is not even so much as one house in the village. Everyone lives in texts and under tarps. The school bus even stops there. Finily the government people realized the people were staying so the government people installed public showers (they are ourside so you cannot get naked to shower) and portapotties. It's pretty cool. We lived in a tent for a year out in the jungle. We joke within our own family and with our friends that we must be the only people there is that is saving up so we can afford to be homeless. Have Colleen send me your e-mail or have Colleen give you my e-mail. Then if we can ever afford a real dwelling you and your wife would certanly be welcome to stay a spell. Or, you could get a job with Adventist Health as they have a small facility there and then AH will pay you and cover all your expenses to go back and forth. I say that tongue-in-cheek but it is true because I very well am acquainted with people employed by AH and they get to fly over there to check on things every so often and it's a cool job because all expenses are covered by AH so it's like a vacation, sort-of. You could even attend the Puna SDA Church. I promise, it's nothing like anything most of us who have had limited exposure to third world nations would be used to. In fact, I met and visited with a SDA man from Hilo. He told me that several years ago the different ethnic groups at this SDA church weren't getting along. So the Japanese and the white people switched to the Hilo church. The Somonians started their own church. That just left the ethnic Hawaiians at the Puna church. I thought it was really sad that the people in the same denomination had to split into three churches because they couldn't get along because of racial/ethnic incompatability. Jesus is the Saviour for all of us. I would hope the people could rise above their petty differences and all come to praise or Saviour together. Get my e-mail. At least I could send a picture postcard to you and our wife. | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1492 Registered: 11-2002 |
Goldenbear, I have been to Montana. It is so beautiful up there. I am glad for you that you are having nice weather. Yes, I agree completely that SDA'ism can take over a persons entire life. There is an exlclusiveness SDA's seem to have. There is a profound alieanation within the people. And, I honestly think the individual SDA's don't notice this within themselves. I have pointed this out to various SDA's during my life and they all deny that they are delibertely trying to be exclusive. They will say things like it is only logical to be friends with your childrens friends parents, or it is hard having Sunday-keeping friendships because the Sunday-keepers will want their social gatherings on Friday nights (not true in my experience but nonttheless this is what I am told) and the Sabbath-keepers want their social events on Sat. nights, and it is easier to have friends who eat like they do, etc, and on and on. But, still I just think they don't even realize that they come across to others as exclusive. I don't understand how come that boss showed up where you were. | ||
| Carol_2 Registered user Username: Carol_2 Post Number: 251 Registered: 2-2002  |
I can remember when my husband & I were dating and first married. He was Baptist and I was SDA. We had close SDA friends, and he attended church with me quite often and we went to a Bible study at the home of SDA friends on Friday nights. Although everyone was very nice to, and really loved, my husband....he always had this feeling of just not quite being a part of things. The SDA language, the reference in almost any and all subjects of conversation of whether someone is SDA or not....I mean we couldn't have a conversation as an SDA about the mailman without mentioning if he was SDA or not, could we? Anyway....my husband always felt a little like he wasn't a part of the "family," and it would make me so mad. Now I see it so clearly! What blinders we wore! | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 638 Registered: 7-2003  |
Carol_2 said: "I mean we couldn't have a conversation as an SDA about the mailman without mentioning if he was SDA or not, could we?" Ha! That's so true! And then there's that slightly hushed voice, as if conveying scandoulous information, when you metion that someone is a "non-adventist". As in, "The new science teacher seems like a nice guy, but (in a lower voice) he's not Adventist you know." Or, "Kevin's girl friend is very pretty, but (in a lower voice) she's not adventist you know." Chris | ||
| Madelia Registered user Username: Madelia Post Number: 127 Registered: 2-2003 |
Or the Sabbath afternoon conversation: "when did you come to know the truth about the Sabbath?" I've never been able to answer that one!! And then my son's teacher (at the SDA school) was talking about going to the bank "It's owned by an Adventist, you know..." | ||
| Freeatlast Registered user Username: Freeatlast Post Number: 288 Registered: 5-2002 |
Personally I came to know the truth about the Sabbath when I found that the "truth" that I knew about it wasn't really the Truth after all! | ||
| Praisegod Registered user Username: Praisegod Post Number: 239 Registered: 3-2004  |
Perhaps Adventists aren't the only ones to quickly want to put labels on. Last night at Bible study I was sitting next to a spunky elderly woman whom I didn't know. We got to chatting and she immediately made it known that she was an Orthodox Jew. I quickly found out she meant she was STILL orthodox and not a Christian at all. But as we talked at the end, I can see how the Holy Spirit is really working upon her. Our Thursday night studies are verse by verse in the Old Testament and we happen to be in Exodus about now. I've been amazed to find so much more of Jesus in the OT than I ever knew as Adventist. Praise God... | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1497 Registered: 11-2002 |
Have any of you spent much time among JW's? They have code speek. I was at a former sister-in-laws one afternoon and she got a telephone call. Obiviousely they were gossiping about someone because every so often I'd hear the s-i-l say, "Oh, how long has she been in the truth?" And, then, "Oh, isn't it amazing how Jehovah leads some into the truth? But, the folks must have to have an open mind because with some people we can share the truth and they will refuse to be brought in." I honestly thought at the time that the last part of conversation was for my benefit as I was just in the ajoining room and just before the phone call the s-i-l had tried to convince me that after the resurrection Jesus was in a gassous form and He could manifest Himself as human before His apostles, mother and others. I told her He even told Peter to feel His nail wounds so He was there really in the flesh. She insisted he was faking it. |
