| Author | Message | ||
| Packer_eric Registered user Username: Packer_eric Post Number: 14 Registered: 3-2004 |
Hi again, folks...I would like to throw out a topic and get some feedback regarding something "dear" to my heart. I may have mentioned before how many of us (all humans) have a "crutch" or two (or ten) and it is the one thing that may or may not "define us." For many years in my "college-aged life," I was more or less known as a Billy-Graham-wannabe. I would go around the dorm and stand up for what I thought was right (no drinking, drugs, doin' it, etc.) and would get razzed more often than not about standing up for my beliefs....iI was probaly pretty annoying at times  YET, there was one area where I was "king" and many of my peers couldn't deny that - I was a walking encyclopedia for sports, namely football. I have a passion for football (post-Super Bowl blues currently) and just cherish the Green Bay Packers - there - I said it - my number one vice! EGW would be rolling over in her grave!?! Well, as many of you know, on Dec. 26, former Philadelphia Eagle and Green Bay Packer Reggie White passed away "suddenly." It was no secret that he was Playing for God and would share his testimony early and often in his career. When he retired in 1998, he missed football so much (he said he felt lost in many ways) that he un-retired and played for the Carolina Panthers in 2000. He then hung it up and retired for good. Well, he became an ordained minister at the age of 17. When he retired, his wife claims that he never set foot in another church. He didn't stray from The Father, per se, he just wanted to know THE TRUTH and get back to his roots. Well, he began to study Hebrew with a fellow from Israel and spent most of his life from 2000-recently studying the Bible roots, et al. This, by the way, I feel, is a very healthy thing and we should NEVER be set in our ways so as to basically tell Christ, whew, I get it and now I am satisfied by not studying any longer. (The SDA churches I have attended will hold Bible studies, vespers, Rev. seminars, etc... but I felt as though they cringed at the thought of ever studying further - basically, to challenge what it is we/they believed.) Mr. White felt as though much of the Bible had gone through editing and revision. I mean, face it...the Bibles that we own right now, that are in our possession right now are not the books from the days of Paul, John, Peter, etc. We must have faith that they are what He (Christ) claims they are - the inspired Word of GOd. But look at the many versions of this book there are - then you throw in the Catholic version (3 extra OT books, nine commandments, the SDA Clear Word, The Book of Mormon too) What do we know as truth? The arguments that we as Christians (or atheists for that matter) are truly fascinating when you really think about it. We are only on this earth for a very short time. Loving each other and caring for one another is indeed the one true way for the world to get along - REGARDLESS OF OUR RELIGIOUS AFFILIATION - BELIEVER IN GOD OR NOT - We'd be in, well, heaven, right?? I just wanted to start a new thread and see what "the gang" has to say...it will take on a life of its own (i.e., some threads are over 500 posts strong and they sure do get off track - kind of fun, actually.) BTW, I sent off a "letter of resignation" to my SDA church (five years since attending) and will be curious to see their response if any. It was hard to do, not 'cause I thought I was wrong(ed) but because I truly love people and didn't want to hurt anyone. But, as decent people, they should see it for what it is - a letter explaining how my search has taken me elsewhere. Eric | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 625 Registered: 7-2003  |
Eric, I would recommend the book "The Case for Christ" by Lee Strobel. I think it's a pretty good place to start in looking at issues related to the reliability of scripture. In particular it deals with the authenticity of the Gospels. Certainly if the Gospels are wrong, we need look no further. If you want a more scholarly defense of the autographa of scripture, then the exhaustive work "Inerrancy" edited by Norman Geisler is unparalleled. Finally, although the sentiment that if we just loved one another we'd already be in Heaven is an extremely popular one (John Lennon's "Imagine" immortalized this thought); it's not possible in our fallen state. Thousands of years of human history attests to the truth of that statement. The only thing that can truly change human nature is the regeneration of the human spirit. Christ is the only one who can connect our spirit to the Spirit of God and give us true life. Apart from Christ there is no hope for peace. Chris | ||
| Tracey Registered user Username: Tracey Post Number: 174 Registered: 9-2004 |
I am not sure about the Reggie White story. I know for a fact that he was a pastor of a church and started several others. In fact, his own church was burned down last year by some racialists. If he pastored, then I am pretty sure he stepped foot in a church since retirement. PS -- Congratulations on sending your letter in. I personally am proud of your courage. Choosing Jesus over religion is a decision to be at peace about. Tracey | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1369 Registered: 12-2003  |
I echo Chris's recommendations. I've pondered those questions too, Eric--the fact is, though, that the Bible actually comes alive when we are born again by the Holy Spirit, and we begin to recognize the Holy Spirit in the words of the Bible. Believing the Bible is inerrant is an act of faith, even though there is great evidence of its authenticity. The thing that sets it apart from all other holy books (which also require an act of faith in something to accept) is that the Bible actually produces change, awakening, peace, and victory in people's lives. We can't separate Bible study from being alive in the Spirit. If we pursue the Bible without a surrender to Jesus, then the Bible is just another holy book we can dissect. If we pursue the Spirit without being grounded in the Bible, we open ourselves to deception. Jesus told the Samaritan woman at the well that the time was now here when God's people would not worship in holy places but in spirit and in truth. Both spirit and truth are equally necessary. We can't worship in spirit without being brought to life by the Holy Spirit, and the Bible is the external source of truth that grounds us in reality. The two must go together--and if we approach them separately, we will end up in heresy. I am so thankful for God's grace that has made Christianity the only system of belief that doesn't depend upon our own flawed efforts to perfect ourselves or to come up with our own "truth". God has done it all through the Lord Jesus! Colleen | ||
| Mrcato Registered user Username: Mrcato Post Number: 14 Registered: 12-2003 |
I also echo reading The Case for Christ...it is a profound, easy read book with more than enough historical info. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1018 Registered: 3-2004  |
Eric, Congratulations on sending your letter of resignation in to the SDA church. That is something I did not have the "pleasure" of doing. I got kicked out so when I decided not to rejoin the SDA church it was no big thing with me. But I can imagine it takes lots of prayer and meditation to cut the ties that bind you to the SDA church. God is holding you in His arms, as He always has and He will continue to guide you in all you do. He continues to be an awesome God. Diana | ||
| Packer_eric Registered user Username: Packer_eric Post Number: 15 Registered: 3-2004 |
Tracey, Thank you (and others) for responding/expanding the topic...I will look into the book(s). But, for the record, Reggie White's church was burned down near the end of his career in Green Bay (1997/98) not last year. And, according to an interview which ran just prior to the Super Bowl, he never did step foot in a church since his last retirement in 2000... | ||
| Windmotion Registered user Username: Windmotion Post Number: 100 Registered: 6-2001 |
You should know better than to argue football with someone named "Packer" tracy! LOL. Anyway, first to clear up what seems to be a common misconception among adventists, that some Bibles are missing one of the commandments, most specifically the sabbath command. I have heard this about the NIV version as well as the Catholic version. The most common Catholic Bible is the Douay-Rheims, and it most assuredly has all 10 commandments (you can check it out online) and so does the NIV. Some denominations (ie Lutherans) group the commandments differently. They combine the first two and separate the last one into two. But about versions. Some SDAs and other conservative Christians somehow think the words of the KJV are just as inspired as the original manuscripts, which is absolutely not the case. So the differences in versions are in how the translators chose to portray the meanings of the original words. Most modern versions are cross-denominational collaborations to make sure no bias shows through. The exception here of course is the Clear Word Bible, which is one man's interpretation of what the Bible means, likely without doing much if any study of the early manuscripts. I agree with what Chris said about starting with the authenticity of the Gospels, as their truths are the cornerstone of Christianity. On top of those would be the rest of the New Testament. Somewhere in college I learned about the "chain of inspiration" where each of the New Testament writers were verified by others, but unfortunately I don't remember much more than that. The Old Testament is a little bit murkier, especially the Pentateuch, which was put together by Moses from several other sources. I tend to see the Old Testament mostly as big-picture-true background information (historical books) and uplifting opinion (poetry) I believe the prophetical books are inspired because those people actually said "thus sayeth the Lord" and people back then had ways of divining which prophets were of God. Although even here, we don't always know what God was saying. (Isaiah 66 anyone?) What you proposed at the end of your post, eric, is remarkably like communism, which is a great system on paper. The problem is people can only be hateful and hedonistic and nothing outside of God can change that. I think of it like driving a car with REALLY bad alignment. People are really crooked. You have to turn the steering wheel (God's power) to get the car to go straight. But if you ever ease up on the steering wheel, the car will drift back off to its own way. Enough rambling, got to go, hope some of this makes sense. --Hannah | ||
| Tracey Registered user Username: Tracey Post Number: 177 Registered: 9-2004 |
No, one of his other churches was burned down just last year in Tennessee. It was one that he was the presiding pastor over that he got off the ground. There have been several attacks on his churches. The most recent was last year. | ||
| Esther Registered user Username: Esther Post Number: 124 Registered: 5-2004 |
Eric, I have been wanting to say something but it never really fit in, but I wondered if you weren't a Packer fan. What a lousy season huh? My husband and I are currently transplants to MI, but both grew up in WI, and make it back there regularly. We too, are Cheese heads all the way! | ||
| Packer_eric Registered user Username: Packer_eric Post Number: 18 Registered: 3-2004 |
Esther (and others) I cannot hide the fact that I am indeed a HUMUNGOUS GREEN BAY PACKER FANATIC. I have it so bad, that my wife and I named our first son, 6, Brett (after Favre) and toyed with the middle name of Lambeau - but chickened-out. Our secon son, 3, is named, ahem, Green and his middle name is indeed Bay!! That was actually my wife's idea - 8th month of pregnancy will do that to a woman I suppose. I was thinking something like Micah, or Noah - but hey, if the wife is willing to go for it...also....when we got married in 1991, my wife actually wrote some Green Bay Packer references into her wedding vows!!!! How cool is that. And I have it on tape if she ever renigs! So, a little light-hearted response. If I didn't live in Colorado teaching I would be in Green Bay, Wisconsin running a sports memorabilia store!!!!! Eric |
