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Archive through February 10, 2005Colleentinker20 2-10-05  9:18 pm
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Tealeaves
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Username: Tealeaves

Post Number: 210
Registered: 5-2004
Posted on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 9:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have that Dr. Laura book, but haven't read it. Actually, i have no idea where it is, but I really want to read it, so I want to find it again.
I think my husband and I have some role reversal as compared to most couples. He tends to be very "mushy", and needs a lot of pats and "I love you"'s. He is the dreamer, i tend to be more grounded, and less outwardly emotional. He is used to me being a "rock". I think that is why he didn't realize that I was feeling pretty alone and stifled.

Tracey,
I signed up for Pilates at a dance studio. I have my first private session next week. And the dance place around the corner is starting an adult ballet class, and want to know if I want to join. I find the idea of that quite daunting, and almost comical. But if the Pilates goes well, i may think of the ballet class, just for exercise and to up my coordination. (I literally have a hard time learning line dances!!)

Just having signed up for class and made a plan to get out once in a while, I feel so much better already.
Thanks again for all the prayers and thoughts everybody. I really needed them this week.
-tanya-
Esther
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Username: Esther

Post Number: 129
Registered: 5-2004


Posted on Friday, February 11, 2005 - 5:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Stephen and I have also done the "Portrait of a Marriage" seminar by the Wilkinsons and it is very excellent. As a college age student I'd always shrunk away from the "wives submit" verse that always seemed so one-sides. They really present it in a very logical and Biblical way that makes it look very different.

Another excellent book is "His Needs, Her Needs" by Willard Harley. This is probably the best book I've read for Marriage improvement.
Freeatlast
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Username: Freeatlast

Post Number: 286
Registered: 5-2002
Posted on Friday, February 11, 2005 - 8:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A great book for Christian husbands to read is "Every Woman's Desire" by Stephen Arterburn and Fred Stoeker.
Ric_b
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Username: Ric_b

Post Number: 200
Registered: 7-2004


Posted on Friday, February 11, 2005 - 1:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Chris, I'll weigh in with a slight disagreement. Men may be more likely than women to require physical affection to feel everything is right with the world. But over-generalization can be dangerous. Individual people are unique, with unique levels and types intimacy needs. What is important in a relationship is understanding (and acting) on these differences so that both partners are fed in the relationship.
Praisegod
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Username: Praisegod

Post Number: 238
Registered: 3-2004


Posted on Friday, February 11, 2005 - 2:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Esther, I agree about Harley. He has a website with an extensive amount of material on it at http://www.marriagebuilders.com/

While we're mentioning marriages--and I totally agree about the egalitarian nature, Colleen--I'm wondering if marriages as a whole are that much different within Adventism.

Just rambling, but all Christians seem to divorce about 50% of the time. So somehow we're just not "getting" it. However, Adventism teaches people to look towards a rigid rule structure and hugely minimizes relationship and intimacy with the Lord. Surely that impacts the emotional and spiritual intimacy within marriages.

But as I said, the rest of the Christian family can't point to a lot of success either.

Any thoughts?

Praise God...
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 1394
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Friday, February 11, 2005 - 2:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You're right, PraiseGod. I've thought about that, too. I suspect that a couple of things have influenced the state of marriage in general, even within Christianity.

First, feminism has been slowly rewriting male/female roles for about four decades or so, now. It's not even a "new" idea that women can have and do it all--career, motherhood, wifehood, financial success, etc. Pretty much all of society from schools to business to television have espoused the idea of a strong woman who can make it with or without a man.

The flip side of this coin is the weak, buffoonish, and/or effeminate male. I heard a completely secular radio host comment last week on the fact that sitcoms now mostly all feature beautiful, brilliant, successful wives with husbands who are not only passive or lazy or a bit stupid but also poorly groomed and just plain bad-looking without even a great career or money to recommend them.

Our culture has come to devalue manhood and to warp womanhood. Christians are not exempt from this cultural bias. I noticed during the past five years of teaching that boys seldom run for school offices (at least at our school). They tend to be self-indulgent,a bit passive (or passive aggressive!), and not interested in tackling the demands of office. On the other hand, the girls loved being in charge and organizing everything, motivating people and telling them what to do.

The contrast from when I was in high school was huge. Then there was still a sense of social obligation, a feeling that individuals needed to contribute and make a difference. I don't sense that much among today's teens. It's pretty much about themselves, about getting a good list of extra-curricular activities to recommend one to a good school, etc. And girls tend to drive the relationships between girls and boys. Few boys actually "take charge" and treat girls like ladies, picking them up, opening doors, paying for dates, etc.

The second thing that I think affects Christian relationships/marriages is that so many Christians are really not really well-versed in Scripture. They know about Jesus, they can tell you how to be saved, but they're not really studying the Word. They have no idea how the OT and the NT relate. They don't really know about living in the Spirit. (I realize I'm generalizing based on the broad spectrum I saw teaching at a good-sized Christian school.) Many don't know the Biblical teaching about men's and women's roles, and if they do, they don't think about it a lot; the prevailing cultural bias wins.

I'm convinced that the mortality of Christian marriages is related to so many Christians not taking seriously the idea of maturing in the Spirit.

One more thing--modern counseling has pretty much convinced people that everyone deserves to be "psychologically independent", to quote a term I read recently. We deserve to be understood, and we should expect those close to us to adjust themselves for us.

In fact, the Bible never teaches this idea. We are not psychologically independent. We live in community, and in the Spirit, we are to be in unity with Christ and each other. Instead of making our own needs the focus in a marriage, we are to make God's design central. If we really made God's design the guide for marriage, men would love their wives sacrificially, and women would respect and submit to their husband's leadership. Their treatment of the other would not depend upon the other's treatment of them. It would be unconditional.

Of course, that sounds impossible. But I believe that's why we have the Holy Spirit--to point out our self-centeredness and to help us surrender ourselves and learn to love each other for God.

Please don't hear me advocating tolerating abuse. But I am suggesting that as a whole, Americans have bought a belief that we deserve certain kinds of treatment and accommodation. We lead from our expectations instead of from God's design. If we led from God's design, we would see our roles as being independent of the other person's treatment of us. After all, Jesus' servant-leadership did not wax and wane depending upon the people's treatment of Him.

We're not here primarily to be happy. We're here to be made holy and to mediate Christ's love to each other.

Happiness is the surprise that grows out of obedience to Jesus and the surrender of our "rights" to Him. Marriages don't have much chance of being wonderful unless the spouses are each relating to Jesus primarily.

My goodness, I believe I've been on my soapbox again! I'm done...!

Colleen
Susan_2
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Username: Susan_2

Post Number: 1496
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Friday, February 11, 2005 - 3:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My favorite program is Married With Children. Meg is a stay at home wife. My 20 year old son won't pay the girls share on a date. And, frankly I don't see why he should. Every girl he goes out with has a job every bit as good as he does so she can pay her fair share. He says he is going out for the conpanionship and not to be soaked financially by a girl.
Dennis
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Username: Dennis

Post Number: 308
Registered: 4-2000


Posted on Friday, February 11, 2005 - 5:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

SURPRISE YOUR SWEETHEART

Are you running out of special ideas for Valentine's Day that are fun, fat-free, and inexpensive? If so, consider taking your wedding video to a large store that sells lots of TVs and has them all blaring at the same time. Simply arrange with a supervisior to play your wedding video on cue when you bring your wife by. You could also invite a few friends and relatives to observe this special occasion with you. The primary advantage of this unique idea is that both of you will NEVER forget it. :>) If you only have photographs of your wedding, these can be made into a CD for viewing as well.

At our church this year for Valentine's Day, our senior pastor is going to conduct a large marriage recommitment ceremony that includes formal, printed invitations to friends with a reception featuring a real wedding cake and refreshments. This event will culminate Pastor Brunott's sermon series on marriage. Happy Valentine's Day!

Dennis J. Fischer
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 1396
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Friday, February 11, 2005 - 5:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dennis, I'm laughing again! So tell us, have you taken your wife to see your wedding as described above?

Colleen
Dennis
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Username: Dennis

Post Number: 309
Registered: 4-2000


Posted on Friday, February 11, 2005 - 6:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Colleen,

I am better at formulating ideas than at implementing them. So, I need some feedback to encourage me. :-)

Dennis
Flyinglady
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Username: Flyinglady

Post Number: 1041
Registered: 3-2004


Posted on Friday, February 11, 2005 - 6:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dennis,
You need feed back??? Well, go do something like you described above for your wife. I am sure she will appreciate it.
Diana
Chris
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Username: Chris

Post Number: 639
Registered: 7-2003


Posted on Friday, February 11, 2005 - 6:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Of course you're right Ric. Overgeneralizations are, well, just that. Everyone is unique. I had my tongue about half in my cheek........but only half.

Chris
Tealeaves
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Username: Tealeaves

Post Number: 213
Registered: 5-2004
Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - 9:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just an update, And a STRANGE one!
My husband and I have finally reached some understanding about my needing some "time and space." (after yet another emotionally exhausting 4 hour conversation.) And actually, I told him some of my most secret fears about our relationship, marriage, and my needs etc. He really seems to understand now, and is even eager to work on "marriage stuff" in a way he hasn't been before. (he even went out to Barnes and noble on his lunch hour and bought Dr. Phils Relationship Rescue books.)
The strange part is this: I signed up for Pilates, but that fell through, and i got conned into a BALLET class. I, the least graceful or athletic individual in this hemisphere, am taking BALLET! Starting tonight, even.
And I will be doing Curves on Mondays and Wednesdays. I already work out on the Elliptical machine at home, and do Yoga at home. So I may end up actually spending some quality, healthy time working on ME. It feels almost decadent, and I definitely feel guilty about spending "me-time". But I think it will be worth it, so I am going to try to banish the guilt feelings and go for it.
My spirit feels lifted already.
Thankd for the thoughts and prayers, guys.
-tanya-
Pheeki
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Username: Pheeki

Post Number: 486
Registered: 1-2003
Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - 9:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Don't you love Yoga, Tea? I do it everyday. When they say "Namaste" at the end (Which means "The divine light in me salutes the divine light in you.") I say, "Jesus is the Light!"

So I have turned it into a witness kind of thing.
Tealeaves
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Username: Tealeaves

Post Number: 214
Registered: 5-2004
Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - 2:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I do like yoga. I do a yoga tape at home, and it isn't one of those that focuses on the "spiritualistic" side of yoga. It is a yoga/Pilates fusion sort of a thing. I definitely use the time to focus on God and ask Him to bring me peace.
-tanya-

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