| Author | Message | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1021 Registered: 3-2004  |
I have been wanting to ask this question for a while and now is as good as time as any. I remember reading in the little red books, somewhwere, that SDAs should not invest in the stock market. I do not like to misquote any one, not even EGW. So can any one confirm this for me? My next comment is, what did she have against the stock market? Was it because it would take money away from the SDA church. Looking back on the year I have been out of the SDA church, it seems that is what it was all about. Anything that would take money out of her pocket and the SDA church was taboo. Diana | ||
| Derrell Registered user Username: Derrell Post Number: 43 Registered: 10-2002 |
Ellen White 1888 Materials Page 59 Chapter Title: Engaging in Worldly Speculation ěThe land boom struck Fresno, and these good brethren in the faith were swept into the land speculation and some invested in mining stock. Speculation crowded out thoughts of eternal things. Unwary souls were beguiled and became infatuated. On the street, around the table, in the social visit, the theme of conversation was the purchasing of lots and mining stock. This, also, was the conversation of ministers whose business it was to work the mines of truth, to find and rescue the precious gems and jewels hidden beneath the rubbish of error.î ěSatan sees his plans work so well, he invents scheme after scheme, that the Lord's money may be diverted into channels where the cause of God will get none of it. Satan tells the speculator that if he will engage in this land scheme, he can make means to help the cause of God, and he presents illusions that fascinates the senses and thousands of dollars are bound away from the cause of God, and the example of Christ is not followed. Unwary souls are beguiled by representations that will never be realized. All who engage in enterprises of this order, fail to give a worthy, Christ-like example to the world as Seventh-day Adventists.î | ||
| Freeatlast Registered user Username: Freeatlast Post Number: 283 Registered: 5-2002 |
One of the last arguments I had with my historic SDA mother before we essentially stopped communicating with one another was over this very subject. I was told that Ellen White predicted that the markets and the banks would crash right before the end of time, and therefore no "good responsible Christian" would ever put good money into a gambling vehicle such as the stock market. She had no tolerance for my story about the faithful servant who had invested his master's talents for a return... Alas, sadly now she has no retirement funds other than Social Security and what little equity she has in her home. She just spent whatever she made over the years without saving anything. She was so sure that Jesus would already be here that she made no provision. Now my siblings and I will have to deal with it... Nah, this religious system isn't dangerous and it never harmed anyone! | ||
| Derrell Registered user Username: Derrell Post Number: 44 Registered: 10-2002 |
Page 61 "Those who engage in speculation cannot keep the commandments of God in sincerity and in truth." | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 193 Registered: 7-2004  |
It seems to me that I've heard or seen evidence that the SDA church invests money (including tithe money) in the stock market. Does anyone know how to confirm this? | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1023 Registered: 3-2004 |
Thank God, He got me into a job with a good retirement system, even as a pseudo SDA. Now, just because God took care or me does not mean I was right, It just meant God loves me and loved me in my wrong doing. Raven, I remember one time I decided to invest in Faith for Today. I got a report that told what stocks they had invested in and how the stocks were doing. I took my money out not long after for another reason. Freeatlast, I like your last comment about this religion not being dangerous and never harmed anyone. The thought just hit me, "EGW is going to have to answer some big questions when she meets her maker". She misled so many people on so many subjects,I am glad I am not in her shoes. I can revel in the love of Jesus Christ right now, knowing I am saved. He is awesome. Diana | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 302 Registered: 4-2000  |
Raven, It is now considered common knowledge that the General Conference of SDA invests money in the stock market. Occasionally, their investments have even included ones like Burger King (smile). Does this mean that Adventists should diligently pray for higher returns (profits) from their Burger King portfolio? These investments (dollar amounts) are routinely shown in their financial statements. The actual names of the companies they invest in are held confidentially. However, in this information age, it is no longer difficult to find out. Consequently, some of their investments have been embarrassing to them when revealed by competent, reliable sources (e.i.,poultry processors, conglomerates that combine tobacco and food sales, etc.). I saw a detailed list online several years ago. Dennis J. Fischer | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1474 Registered: 11-2002 |
It seems to me since EGW encouraged a 10% tithe plus lots more money be given in various offerings for this and that, that she would have encouraged investments. Don't the SDA's have a yearly fundraising program called Investment? How do they justify their Investment program with EGW saying not to invest? Doesn't add up. | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 303 Registered: 4-2000 |
Susan, They continue to pick and choose what they want to obey--whether from the Bible or EGW. Remember, Ellen White wrote that SDA doctors should not treat the opposite gender and that they also should not charge as much as non-SDA physicians. Today the Loma Linda Medical School doesn't teach either one of these "inspired" directives. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1024 Registered: 3-2004 |
It seems to me that if the historical SDAs get their way and the SDA church gets pulled back into those ways, the cult like aspect of the church will really be visible. I say let them do it!!!! Diana | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 335 Registered: 10-2004  |
And originally EGW wrote that people should not even go to physicians. Why do SDAs not believe that "inspired" counsel?? She wrote:
But of course she later changed her stance after she murdered a woman who did not seek medical treatment due to this "inspired counsel" of Ellen's. But the worst thing is that EGW refused to admit that it was her fault and said that she NEVER had taught that people shouldn't go to physicians!
Isn't it amazing how she claimed that they had always held that position when just 11 years earlier she taught the opposite?! Jeremy | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1025 Registered: 3-2004 |
I guess the historical SDA will have to pick and choose how historical they want to be. That should not be to difficult as that is what the church is doing now and has done all the time it has been in existence. If they truly go back to what EGW said the first time, then the cult like aspects of the church will stand out like a sore thumb. I know I am being sarcastic, but this is a way of venting with those of you who understand. I get so tired of the word games they play. God is just to awesome to play games with. Diana | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1375 Registered: 12-2003  |
Yes, Diana--the word games weary me. They're so convincing to those who don't know the inside reality... Yes, Jeremy--the completely opposing positions she seemed often to espouse just leave me rolling my eyes--puh-lease! It is so amazing to have discovered the total reliability of the Bible. After growing up with Ellen, I thought even the Bible had to be interpreted or edited. But no--it is clearer and more and more consistent the more I study it. Praise God for His word! Colleen | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1026 Registered: 3-2004 |
Susan, By Investment it meant, the way I remember it, that each person was to do something during the year to make money and all that money was to go to the church marked investment. What the church did with it, I do not know. Colleen, You have a lovely way with words. What you said above expreses how I feel and think about the Bible. It is clearer and more consistent the more I study it also. Thank God, I do not have to play those word games any more. God is so open and the Bible easy to understand without my EGW filters. You are awesome God. Diana | ||
| Goldenbear Registered user Username: Goldenbear Post Number: 51 Registered: 12-2004  |
In the year 2000 the denomination in the US ended it's defined benefit retirement program. This was explained to us that one of the reason was that they could not fully fund it. During the discussion of the retirement program as it was at that time, it was clearly related that retirement funds were invested. As the "brothern" were explaining the new defined contribution program, they explained that the church would provide several investment options for employees as they embarked on the real world of retirement planning. Only one of the ones provided - a basic plan that yielded about 2-3 % - did NOT have a stock component. I guess that in the current times they chose to ignore the advice of the ancestors, and invest. Of course the other option was to come up with an innovative explanation. Speaking of investing, I wonder what the conflict of interest is when older adventists utilize the services of the trust services department and leave parts of their estates to the organization helping them plan. Oh, back to retirement for a moment. I thought it was rather interesting that the GC retirement office told us in the conference office at one time that the reason it was in trouble was that actuaries hadn't taken into account the extra years that adventist live longer thus skewing the tables. He told us that one lady worked for 38 years and then collected benefits for over 40 years. | ||
| Esther Registered user Username: Esther Post Number: 123 Registered: 5-2004 |
Also, as the denomination's retirement plan changed, those who were in the "mid stage of service" were left with the disappointing news that they weren't going to be able to claim the old plan, and they were too late starting to take full advantage of the new plan. After watching my parents sacrifice everything, including their family, for their calling, this really irks me. Yet another example of the churches "care" for those who support it. | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1479 Registered: 11-2002 |
Goldenbear, The person you mentiomed who got benefist for 40 years. I did the math. If that person was 20 at the start then she would have been 58 at retirement and then 98 at her death. The SDA's when figuring these things need to consider the longevity of their members because of their health message. It certanily worked out for that lady. This is one of the problems with Social Security. Life expeectanncy is much longer now than it was in the 1930's when SS was put in. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1380 Registered: 12-2003 |
Yes, Richard was caught in that "mid stage of service" shift of retirement benefits, also. And they most certainly are investing in stocks. He now gets regular statements showing the value of his retirement investments. (Paltry, at best!) While Richard (our family's financial manager) is very careful with money, we've decided that just as we have had to trust God for our support now, we will have to keep trusting him in the future. He knows what we need, and He has definitely not provided me with work which included retirmenet benefits through most of my adult life. Life is definitely an exercise in faith! Colleen | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1030 Registered: 3-2004 |
Colleen, I can really put myself in your shoes when it comes to retirement benefits. Being a "good" SDA, I did not learn about or touch the stock market. Got married, divorced and have been a single parent for many years. But my jobs with the state of VA are providing me a nice retirement pay. The final note is I have to trust God. That is the bottom line as I will be the age to retire in November of this year. But I do not loose sleep over anything as I know God will provide, as He has in the past. He did not bring me this far to drop me. Plus He says in the Bible that we should not worry about tomorrow, that we have enough troubles for today. I do not want to borrow tomorrows troubles. They may be the wrong ones. Only God knows, so I choose to trust him. And He is so awesome. Diana |
