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Madelia
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Username: Madelia

Post Number: 125
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Friday, February 11, 2005 - 10:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If there's going to be a Former's reunion, count me in please!!
Carol_2
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Username: Carol_2

Post Number: 252
Registered: 2-2002


Posted on Friday, February 11, 2005 - 11:12 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Actually Las Vegas is a good idea for another reason I think......even for those of us on the East Coast....you can usually find really good airfares in and out of Vegas.

Also, my daughter is in college in Arizona, so not too far away.....

That reminds me, I've been wanting to ask about a church in Tempe, but guess I'd better switch to a more appropriate "thread."
Praisegod
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Username: Praisegod

Post Number: 240
Registered: 3-2004


Posted on Friday, February 11, 2005 - 2:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

lindylou, aren't you in Walla Walla? Seems to me that there are enough of you there to start a weekly FAF. That could be such a blessing to those who are questioning. Colleen, ever think of starting a new "franchise"?

Praise God...
Jeremy
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Username: Jeremy

Post Number: 341
Registered: 10-2004


Posted on Friday, February 11, 2005 - 2:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

PraiseGod,

Take a look at the responses over on the "AIO Digital" forum...wow, wow, wow. It looks like he got an SDA friend of his to help him out. I can't believe the outright rejection of the Gospel. :-(

Jeremy
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 1395
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Friday, February 11, 2005 - 3:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Actually, PraiseGod, if anyone in the WW area is interested in starting an FAF, we'd do what we could to help them! We actually would be happy to share our experiences and suggestions with someone interested.

There's a new one that will be starting soon, I believe, in the eastern midwest--more on that as things develop!

Colleen

Colleen
Lindylou
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Username: Lindylou

Post Number: 23
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Friday, February 11, 2005 - 8:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow! Colleen and "PraiseGod" - you read my mind! In fact, my mom and I were just talking about this today. (We weren't going to approach this forum about this quite yet - but I feel compelled to say something since it was brought up.) It is estimated that there are thousands of former SDA's in the Walla Walla Valley. (Consider the fact that there are over TEN SDA churches within a 15 mile radius here!) But I would venture to say that most are not going to any church.

It has been a burden on our hearts to have a minstry for "recovering SDA's". A transition ministry to help them get on with their lives.

I know, Colleen, that you don't recommend a church of formers - but I have been thinking that there is a need to have a group that would help former SDA's discover the New Covenant truth - to help them over that last hump - the Sabbath. So many are in "no man's land" due to not being able to reconcile that belief.

I picture something that meets on Saturday mornings - for the comfort factor and I can see it advertised specifically - something like:
"Are you a former Adventist - wanting to move forward in Christ? Come join us on Saturday mornings and learn how to leave your cultic past behind and find a new life in Christ! Come for the Good News!"

We were thinking of looking for a local new covenant pastor that might have this type of burden on his heart to reach out to former SDA's. I just feel such a great need for something in this area. The trouble is finding a New Covenant leader who has the charisma and knowledge necessary to point these people in the right direction.

I know that "Dd" and my mom and I are geared up for helping with something like this. So any help in this area would be SO very welcome. This place is ripe for reaching out to many "homeless" souls.

Dennis
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Username: Dennis

Post Number: 311
Registered: 4-2000


Posted on Friday, February 11, 2005 - 8:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Colleen,

How about having a weekly announcement of the Former Adventist Fellowship Online in local newspapers in SDA centers? For example, our local newspaper has a church directory and spiritual values section on Saturdays. A weekly ad could simply refer to the FAF website or local FAF Chapter. Funding for this outreach could be provided locally by former Adventists. Of course, ad authorization would be needed from you. An inexpensive, two-line ad could look like the following:

FORMER ADVENTIST FELLOWSHIP ONLINE
Visit us at: www.formeradventist.com

or simply:

FORMER ADVENTIST FELLOWSHIP
www.formeradventist.com

Dennis Fischer
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 1398
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Saturday, February 12, 2005 - 12:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dennis, we ran weekly ads in the major local paper when we started FAF for about a year or a little more. Those ads got basically no response. We had our website and a phone number listed. We saw only one person on one Friday night who had noticed our ad.

We finally quit running the ad; it just wasn't worth the money. Far more effective has been the weekly announcement in our church worship folder and the website itself. We've had quite a lot of people show up because of the website, and several because of visiting Trinity Church and seeing the ad.

As far as local chapters of Former Adventist Fellowships are concerned, FAF is not "owned" by anyone. Because of the things we've learned from doing one, however, we have a policy of not actually advertising any local group on this website unless we know it's functioning within certain accountability guidelines. One of the foremost is that it be a ministry of a local Bible-teaching church with a pastor who will be its "sponsor", even if he isn't always present.

Another guideline we've found essential is that the groups be Bible studies.

We are happy to share some of the things we've learned with those who feel God is calling them to lead such a group. There are many things that happen in and to an FAf group, however, that we would never in a lifetime have foreseen if we hadn't actually started one. The reason we so strongly urge certain guidelines, accountability, and lines of "protection", if you will, is really for the safety and security of the group and those who attend.

Spiritual warfare is real, and it's also true that there are many peoplel who leave Adventism who are looking for another "movement" or a "support group" without desiring to really grow spiritually and know Jesus. Also, there are people who are looking for a group to lead--it's amazing, but there really are charismatic personalities out there who can deceive and threaten a vulnerable group of people.

Any time you have a "collection" of people who are leaving a cult, you tend to find lot of needy, hurting, and sometimes imbalanced people. We ALL go through those vulnerable times. For everyone's spiritual and psychological safety, we strongly believe that such groups be undertaken only if you know God is calling you to organize one, and only under the protective umbrella of a pastor and a church.

Also, an FAF should not replace church. Our goal is to help all those who come to move into a local healthy church as fast as possible while simultaneously attending FAF for Bible study and fellowship until they are well-grounded. Of course, they can attend FAF always if they want to, but most people eventually move on because they've grown strong enough to function as a Christian in a local church and have healed enough to "fly" on their own.

While Saturday meetings wouldn't be out of the question, our personal recommendation would not be Saturday. That would be too much like still having "church". Further, if Saturday is FAF day, there's less likelihood of a person going to church on Sunday, especially if that's an untested venture. Integrating into a church is more important than I can explain.

Friday nights, though, seem to be really good times. It's a natural for someone with an Adventist background, and most churches have free classrooms on Firday nights. Dale Ratzlaff has started on on Thursday nights.

An FAF is a wonderful thing, but there's more there than meets the eye. If one doesn't think through some of the implications, it's likely that the group would dissolve prematurely and leave people feeling abandoned.

All that being said, FAf is perhaps the most rewarding and demanding ministry venture we've ever been involved in. And if God is really calling someone to start an FAF, He will equip him to do it.

Colleen
Dennis
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Username: Dennis

Post Number: 312
Registered: 4-2000


Posted on Saturday, February 12, 2005 - 8:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Colleen,

Thank you for your informative response. I wholeheartedly agree with your guidelines and recommendations for a FAF Chapter.

However, my primary interest is in reaching struggling, inquiring Adventists that have no clue that an online support group is available for them. So, my real burden is in reaching these questioning Adventists. I think it is important for them to look through the keyhole (lurking) for awhile to enable them to gather up enough courage to open the door and come in. Fortunately, I realize that some computer-savvy SDAs may eventually find us online without a referral or recommendation of some kind. Many others, however, may need some assistance and/or information to find us. An added plus is that more and more Adventists are entering cyberspace. The empowerment and accessibility of online information surpasses many other types of media.

For example, the official SDA websites are listed on search engines next to former Adventist sites. This alone reveals its cultic aspect. My church certainly doesn't have dozens of former sites to contend with online. This is unique to cultic groups--particularly SDAs, JWs, Mormons, etc. Their temptation to at least look at them in a private, non-threatening manner is ever present. Praise God! Thus, the Internet provides an important equality for dissenting, inquiring, and former Adventists. This issue was publicly exposed on the floor at the last GC session in Toronto. Kenneth Wood, former ADVENTIST REVIEW editor, was wondering how the SDA Church could control anti-SDA websites. I think he was particularly alluding to Dirk Anderson's website (www.ellenwhite.org)without naming it.

The Internet makes it possible for a large and small website to be listed next to each other--no matter how elaborate one of them may be. Of course, the good news is that the General Conference is completely powerless to change the format and empowerment of online information. Consequently and fortunately, the Internet does not provide an ideal modus for SDA evangelism. Instead, SDA message boards and chatrooms are common vehicles for Adventists to attack one another, their leaders, and their doctrines.

His grace still amazes me,

Dennis J. Fischer
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 1399
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Saturday, February 12, 2005 - 9:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You know, it might be worthwhile to run local newspaper adsóat least for a period of time--a few months, perhaps?--that give this website and maybe the ellenwhite.org website or sdaoutreach.org as well. (Most of these websites are linked to each other, anyway.) FAF and also Mark Martin's sdaoutreach.org both have phone numbers listed where people can reach us.

If individuals wanted to try running local ads, especially, perhaps in SDA "ghettos", it might give some people the information they need to pique their interest in privately searching for information. It might be hard to track the success of the ads, but perhaps tracking success isn't the most important thing. It's planting seeds that matters...

Interesting idea, Dennis.

Colleen
Ric_b
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Username: Ric_b

Post Number: 201
Registered: 7-2004


Posted on Saturday, February 12, 2005 - 10:13 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Eastern Midwest" sounds dangerously like an oxymoron.
Goldenbear
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Username: Goldenbear

Post Number: 54
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Saturday, February 12, 2005 - 10:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

To add to the discussion consider that for the most part, people under the age of 30 aren't reading the paper.

To more effectively reach people there may be other methods of contacting a target audience. I really understand the purpose of what Dennis is proposing but I am not sure the newspaper is the best way.

Too bad you can't buy advertising time for the broadcast of the new Prophecy Code meetings. :-)

We surely don't want to use the time tested SDA method - Bait and switch. Deception and false advertising

Chris
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Username: Chris

Post Number: 640
Registered: 7-2003


Posted on Saturday, February 12, 2005 - 11:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dennis, check your e-mail. Just such an opportunity may be now openning in the SDA college town of Lincoln, NE. May the Lord bless this opportunity.

Chris
Praisegod
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Username: Praisegod

Post Number: 243
Registered: 3-2004


Posted on Saturday, February 12, 2005 - 12:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dennis, Colleen and those of you in Adventist ghettosóthis is information dear to my heart. I believe that many of you will be able to reach those inquiring SDAs and the more we can find a way to promote that we are here, that we arenít just bitter from being hurt, and yesóthere can be life after Adventism, then Iím all for it.

The reason I had used the word ìfranchiseî for FAF is exactly because of what you are saying, Colleen. Although itís not a franchise for a money making endeavor, I do believe it needs to be a franchised concept in that like McDonaldís, things are consistently the same. There is power in learning from others who have been through it already. Why re-invent the wheel? Also, as you say, many of us are or have been very emotionally needy. Coming out of a cult, plus still dealing with SDA family members and friends is enough to bring most people to a point of despair at some time or another in their search.

Dennis, is there a FAF near Union College? If not, shouldnít there be? And Sabraóare you out there? Perhaps if she feels called, she could get something going in the Collegedale area. There is a former Adventist in that area who knows sheís called to reach non church going formers and questioning SDAs and she just seems to draw them like a magnet. Unfortunately, sheís not here on our forum because computers arenít her strength. But those of us who know her and others like her who are willing and able to get something going, that would be awesome and the rest of us could provide needed connections, support and prayer!

As far as ads go, it seems if I were in one of the ghettos and I picked up a neighborhood shopper ad or news flyer and it said something very simple with a website address, I would definitely be willing to check it out online. I guess the key would be knowing where to place ads that people would actually see it. Hey! How about a billboard? (donít laugh)

Dennis, what is your website that you get so many people contacting you? You definitely seemed to have figured out a way to reach the masses youíre called to reach.

I just checked and see that Greg Taylor has websites listed for info in the back of his book. My guess is that while this is not a quick fix, it will have impact sooner or later. Dale has books listed in the one book of his I have, but not websites for info.

Iíve rambled long enough, but do want to encourage all of you. Each time I consider how totally unbelievable it was in the natural that I was able to find Jesus Christ and the true Gospel, I just want to let people know there is hope.

Praise GodÖ

Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 1403
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Saturday, February 12, 2005 - 10:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

PraiseGod, in fact, the internet really is quite an effective means of reaching people. We frequently hear from people who say they were doing an internet search and they ended up on this site--or on Life Assurance, or on ellenwhite.org. Since we all link to each other, people end up finding us through various search words: Seventh-day Adventists, former Adventist, Ellen White, etc. People who are searching for info on SDAism really do often find us.

Ric--you're right about the oxymoron! The whole idea of the "midwest" has meen a mystery to me for years!

Colleen
Esther
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Username: Esther

Post Number: 131
Registered: 5-2004


Posted on Monday, February 14, 2005 - 7:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The internet is definately being felt as a "threat". Last summer when I was still in the questioning phase - I was almost looking for, and hoping that something could dissuade me from what was dawning - I attended a local Adventist Forum chapter meeting. The topic was brought up regarding questions with EGW and how there was a website (Dirk's) and what to do to counter it. Basically, that was one of the last blinders to fall from my eyes...as I watched a whole room full of pastors in training disolve into yelling curses on those going to hell.

I too have a burden for this "ghetto" area and know of a pastor who I think would sponsor a FAF, but at the moment I couldn't handle it alone. And I don't know of any other formers in the area who have this burden currently. In looking through the archives, at one point there was talk of starting one up by Kalamazoo or Grand Rapids, which isn't too far from here, but I can't find any information on them so I don't know if it ever happened.
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 1411
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Monday, February 14, 2005 - 2:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Esther, it actually did happen. I don't know its current status. It was being held monthly at Calvary Chapel in Kalamzoo, and one of their pastors led the Bible study. I talked to him a couple of times, and he said he felt God had laid the burden of understanding ADventism on him, and he was quite committed to the group. There were two couples who took responsibility for organizing/hosting the meetings.

I've also been wondering about the group recently.

Colleen
Esther
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Username: Esther

Post Number: 133
Registered: 5-2004


Posted on Tuesday, February 15, 2005 - 9:22 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I might try to locate the church and see if it's still a functioning group.

I'm feeling the burden to find an outreach to be involved in. I've been holding back reserving my energies for the "debating" of my friends and family as they find out and want to take their turns. However, I'm finding that extremely tiring and unfulfilling. It can be equated to...well, I don't even know. I've been around and around lately with my parents. The arguments are circular and full of double speak until you just have to shake your head in "defeat" because there's nothing left to say. It's not even worth it. And then, they wrote a letter to my baby brother telling him that my husband and I are dissenters and to watch out for us. I looked it up as the only context I knew for that word wasn't great...and sure enough, it came out of the reformation years and refers especially to those the church burned at the stake. There are so many other words for them to choose, but no...they picked that one.

I was awake all night thinking about it. I can't even put into words what it makes me feel. Not hurt or angry for myself...I can't even put a finger on it. It just has me shrugging my shoulders and telling God that I can't do anything else. I can't say anything else...the Gospel is falling on deaf ears.

They got me the book by ??? Pickle. Refuting the video "Spirit Behind the Church". What I find laughable is that one of the first chapters deals with the fact that the church "officially" doesn't need EGW. That they are "sola scriptura". The next 10 chapters go on to formulate (many times by breaking the Bible down) how she could actually be a prophet and not have to be perfect. And how she teaches the correct doctrine.

'round and 'round the merry go round...and where it stops nobody knows :-)
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 1413
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Tuesday, February 15, 2005 - 10:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh, Esther--I an so sorry. I know how upsetting that is. It's one thing to hear circular, illoigical reasoning from Adventists in general, but when it's your own family--there's just really no way to answer or "fix" that!

I'll pray that God will help you to know what ministry He wants you in. I don't think we're necessarily called to conserve our strength for certain battles--it seems the battles we expect are seldom the ones that actually occur. Jesus promsied his disciples that the Holy Spirit would give the words to speak when the need arose, and He is faithful. And you're right--there comes a point where it's not worth it to continue the discussions.

This business of learning to live by the Spirit reminds me of Colossians 1:29: "To this end I labor, struggling WITH ALL HIS ENERGY which so powerfully works in me." It's His energy that equips us to answer, to minister, to teach, etc.

With empathy and prayers for you, Esther--

Colleen
Chris
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Username: Chris

Post Number: 646
Registered: 7-2003


Posted on Tuesday, February 15, 2005 - 11:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm sorry to hear about your struggles with your parents Esther. The relationship my wife and I had with her parents was once quite warm. As a result of leaving Adventism, the relationship is now very strained at the best and sometimes downright miserable. I would do almost anything to make it better short of turning from the path that Jesus has led us on. But since our new found joy in Christ is the catalyst of our family discord, I am at a complete and total loss as to what to do to make things betters.

As Martin Luther said [with my small revision],

"Unless I am convicted by scripture and plain reason - I do not accept the authority of the [SDA organization and EGW], for they have contradicted each other - my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and I will not recant anything for to go against conscience is neither right nor safe. God help me. Amen."

Chris

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