| Author | Message | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 198 Registered: 7-2004  |
Groundhog Day and What About Bob are among some of my favorite movies too! | ||
| Carol_2 Registered user Username: Carol_2 Post Number: 260 Registered: 2-2002  |
I'm a big "What About Bob" fan too! | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 119 Registered: 7-2004 |
Okay, I just couldn't help myself. I went back over there and read all the stuff that Wicklund was coming up with (I could have quoted him word-for-word because his arguments came directly from my SDA bible classes). At the end of it I'd had my belly full so I posted this as my reply. I hope it get's through to a few because I think it answers a few of the questions that keep cropping up and getting ignored. ---------- Please bear with me because I am no theologian, just a mere worshipper of Jesus Christ. Jesus made the statement that not one jot nor tittle would pass from the law until all was accomplished. Then he went to the cross, and the very last words he said before he gave up the ghost were "It is finished." Depending on the translation of the scriptures you are using you will find that some versions use the phrase "It is accomplished." Many are the references to early Christians meeting on The Lord's Day. I do so wish that you and I could have been there when the disciples and Paul revealed the "accomplished" work of atonement that Jesus had done for the the believers, but we were not. We have letters written by them that allude to what was taught. In those letters they make clear that the law was our judge, and that by its judgment we deserve to die. Jesus stepped in, took the blow for us, and we live now because of his atoning life given for us. In Hebrews the statement is made that "there remains a Sabbath rest for God's people." This statement was made after a complete dissertation had been made making it clear that the law had been fulfilled at the cross and that it was now obsolete. Like I said, I am no theologian so I can't give you exact Greek words and their meanings, but as I understand it The word in Greek for Sabbath is Sabbaton, and is used to designate the weekly recurring Sabbath, Saturday. In Hebrews 4:9, the Greek word Sabbatismos is used to refer to the sabbath rest mentioned there. This word, Sabbatismos, is used nowhere else in scripture. The best way I can explain this, and this is as it was explained to me, is that if you substitute the word mother for sabbath it would be explained thusly. Sabbaton can be used the same as the word mother, meaning the female progenator of all animate things. The word Sabbatismos would represent Mother, meaning a singular person, my Mother. This sabbath rest that remains for the people of God is singular, not recurring, and was mentioned after the law was clearly described as obsolete. This sabbath rest is a rest that occurs TODAY, the day you rest your efforts to save yourself from sin (by being a lawkeeper) and rest upon the atoning life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, our Savior. Please worship on Saturday (your Sabbath), but never tell me that it is a savation issue for me to worship on that day. I praise God through Jesus Christ that he has paid my blood price so that I may enter into heavenly places, into the direct presence of God, even though I am a lowly sinner and still make mistakes every day of my life. God sees me through the veil of the blood of Jesus and says, "price for sin has been paid." We do not know who the author of the book of Hebrews was, so you cannot say this book was some Pauline trick. I find it very interesting that the only book in the New Testiment with a treatise on the Sabbath was written to the Hebrews. The gentile believers didn't get a whisper about Sabbath requirements except that they were to disregard those who came into their assemblies and tried to make them behave in accordance with Jewish worship practices (and personal practices, too, because the issue was either Sabbath or circumcision). The book of Hebrews, written to the Jewish believers, makes it clear that the old Jewish laws were fulfilled in Jesus' substitutionary life and death, and his glorious resurrection. The writer of the book told the Jewish believers that they could now rest completely, "sabbath rest," TODAY, any day that can be called TODAY. When you accepted, by faith alone, in Jesus Christ alone, that the blood price for your sins was paid by Jesus for you, that day was called TODAY, and you entered into, once and for all time, Sabbath Rest. Nuff said! Jesus Loves Me, this I know. GIVE ME JESUS! | ||
| Pw Registered user Username: Pw Post Number: 302 Registered: 6-2004 |
You really need to be prepared to defend yourself on those other forums with SDA's who post. I've had my share of it on christianity.com regarding the sabbath and the soul sleep threads. Man, they are so blinded by their own deception it's downright annoying. And the sad part is, I can relate to their mindset because I was ignorant of what the Bible actually teaches compared to what the SDA teaches. BTW - Stripes is my favorite Bill Murray flick. | ||
| Tdf Registered user Username: Tdf Post Number: 41 Registered: 11-2004 |
Belva, Well said. | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 120 Registered: 7-2004 |
Ah, but there are none so blind as those who will not see. Shakespeare was so right! His quick response was this: ---------- If you have that pet belief about Greek words somehow meaning a new Sabbath rest, how am I going to persuade you? But the fact is that Sabbath worship was given by God at creation. When human life was just a twinkle in God's proverbial eye. Who are you and I to pass judgment on His chosen day of rest. When they start forcing you to worship on Sunday, you might have a sudden change of heart. Because of the increase of wickedness, and the increase of the occurrence of natural disasters, the Sunday keeping world will pressure everyone to keep Sunday. You see, the breaking of Sunday to many is just like breaking the law of God!!! If they believe that Sunday is the Sabbath of the fourth commandment, and that breaking this law is bringing divine judgment, then look for your world to change very soon. You think America will remain a religious free country but you are living in a dream world friend. Let the true Sabbath of Christ be the Holy Spirit's heavenly whisper in your hearts ear. While you still have the time!!! This is urgent business. ---------- The he left a URL (can't remember what that was, but if anyone is interested I'll go back and pick it up for you) that went on about some minister in Scotland who saw the Tsunami on Dec. 26 as God's greatest judgment against mankind since the great flood itself, and since the tsunami took place on a Sunday, that churchman was of the opinion it was a slap in the face for all of those "pleasure seekers" who were sunning themselves on Sumatra's beaches that early morning. Later on in the article it mentions that the Muslims saw the tsunami as God's judgment against prostitution, and they, the Muslims go so far as to say that God signed his name, as Allah, in Arabic, in the waves during the tsunami. All of this, according to Wicklund, is supposed to scare me back to church on Saturday mornings. In his quaking heart he's hearing the drum beat of the soon to be instituted Sunday law. Give me a break! Belva | ||
| Pw Registered user Username: Pw Post Number: 303 Registered: 6-2004 |
It's called Fear Factor: SDA Style. | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 202 Registered: 7-2004  |
Pheeki, Actually it turns out that "remnant_for_jesus" is our old friend truthseeker2004/Belteshazzar. The comments may have sounded very similar to some of Rosemary's, but John has stepped forward: http://new.carmforums.org/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=121&topic_id=38700&mesg_id=38903&page= | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 121 Registered: 7-2004 |
Oh Pheeki, you are so droll (sp?). This past weekend has been a bit of an education to me. You see, most of my family that would argue with me about my faith as it is now expressed have either passed away or they live so far away that they are no longer concerned about me because of the lack of contact. Anyway, it has been a while since I last locked horns with an SDA pillar of the church. You do know the definition of a pillar, don't you -- "thoroughly mixed up and firmly set." At any rate I have not been fighting the good fight as you have on the other sites. I've seen you opening up truth to them and seen them blindly slide past it. Now I'm experiencing it first-hand. You are a brave warrior. | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 350 Registered: 10-2004  |
I'm about to go crazy from the people on O'Ffill's forum!!! A thousand times people have told them that the Law of Christ far exceeds the morality of the Law of Moses--that Moses said "don't cheat" and Christ said "don't even lust"! And after people have repeated this many times, this SDA guy comes back and says that we think Jesus said that it's FINE to lust!!! But we said Jesus said not to, and the Law never even said not to!! They just can't get the fact that the NT can lay down laws and that Jesus has the authority to lay down laws for us NO MATTER what even if he does away with the 10 Cs!!! ARRgggggghhhh..... Just needed to vent.  Jeremy | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 122 Registered: 7-2004 |
Jeremy, you and Greg have been working hard over there shedding light as clearly, and lovingly, as you possibly can. It's almost like trying to pet a rabid dog, though, I am afraid. I just wanted to commend you for your efforts. It feels like a waste of time to speak to the main SDA posters, however, because it is clear that they will not accept a single thing that is said by you or me because we have come out and said that we have moved beyond Adventism in our walk with Jesus. We can speak truth until our fingers fall off, and their minds are so closed that we are wasting our time trying to reach them personally. However, I'm certain there are lurkers there the same as there are lurkers here, and it is those dear people who may be searching for seeds of truth. So we must continue to sow those seeds and pray for a harvest. Be of good cheer! Belva | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1416 Registered: 12-2003  |
You all are stronger than I am! I posted for a while on Christianity.com (a very short while, actually), but the deliberate refusal to address what I said and the glib way they have of believing I said the OPPOSITE of what I actually said finally just gave me that old familiar lump in my stomach, and I quit. Besides, it took up more time than I really had to give it! Great post, Belva! Colleen | ||
| Jan Registered user Username: Jan Post Number: 5 Registered: 1-2005 |
I wish someone (who loved me!) had shoved me up against a wall years ago and said: "Listen to this. I have learned things you need to know. And it's all good news!" But no one did. Now I'm in the dilemma of wanting to do that to some of my dear friends and loved ones. I just keep thinking that the FORUM we've been reading has to be used by the Holy Spirit to help at least some of those folks understand the message of the New Covenant. Of course most of them still have on their "Adventist glasses," so it's not easy. But it's a virtual wall. And we're virtually shoving away, some of us better than others. My prayers are that the light will go on for at least one . . . | ||
| Greg Registered user Username: Greg Post Number: 1 Registered: 2-2005 |
Hello everyone. I'm the Greg from the RevivalSermans.org forum. I've been lurking here for awhile and just received my account information. I've probably outlined most of what I believe on that (long) thread. I'll post more here in the coming days. This seems to be about the best forum around for having reasonable discussions about unique Adventist doctrine without the whole thing degenerating into a condemnation-fest. That said, there is a place for us on those forums. Some don't have this "gift" but I believe it is vital to interact with those in Adventism who are preaching a message of condemnation and fear. We have a unique insight into their situation, having been there ourselves. Above all, we must keep loving and praying for these brothers and sisters. Greg | ||
| Randyg Registered user Username: Randyg Post Number: 15 Registered: 12-2004 |
Welcome to FAF Greg.You are right in that we must keep loving and praying for these/our brothers and sisters and parents and children ... and then leave it in God's hands. Sharing what God has done for us is our witness. Arguing with these folks only aggravates hypertension.We need to understand our role and allow the Holy Spirit its role. Welcome again, Randy | ||
| Jan Registered user Username: Jan Post Number: 6 Registered: 1-2005 |
Greg, you have done a fantastic job! I have learned much from you! | ||
| Dd Registered user Username: Dd Post Number: 340 Registered: 7-2004 |
Hi Greg, welcome. Your posts at the "Bucky" discussion were very good. You do have a gift. I do believe those that can "argue" (stand up for the New Covenant) have a special calling. Of course I am not very objective reading the "banter", but what stands out more for the guys on "my side" is that you stick to the point, do not name call, are gracious in light of the rudeness and most of all the patience that is exuded. When you are in the heat of the battle, remember, there are many sitting on the sidelines. The words God gives you are for a specific person or reason. Also remember, you may not hear our thank-you's or feel our hugs but they are there. God will continue to bless your ministry whenever the name of Jesus is praised. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1057 Registered: 3-2004  |
Greg, Welcome to FAF. God is using you on that forum. I have posted some there, but I am ignored and that is okay with me. I will not get into a debate, I will only tell what the Bible says and how I read it. And yes, we do need to pray for all SDAs. We have a prayer circle for them. Every Friday evening at sundown in our own time zones we pray. Then on Saturday afternoon at 1 PM Pacific time and the corresponding times around the world we pray with one voice to God for SDAs, unchurched SDAs, those coming in contact with SDAs and those who think SDAs are just another Christian church. Join us in prayer at those times. And again welcome. When you are ready, tell us more about yourself. We do have an awesome God. I see Him that way whenever a new person shows up, studying their way out of adventism. Diana | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1421 Registered: 12-2003 |
Greg, it's good to have you here. We'll be happy to discuss with you, and we look forward to more of your story and your insight. Colleen | ||
| Pw Registered user Username: Pw Post Number: 304 Registered: 6-2004 |
I feel your frustration Jeremy. On Christianity.com's forum, there's been a real debate going one between the old and new covenants. Two posters (who claim to be Messianic Jewish believers) actually believe that Paul is a false apostle who set out to destroy the original commandments of God and Jesus by disorting them to Paul's own belief system. I'm really surprised that the mod's have allowed this kind of nonsense be able to be allowed. They say that we should only follow the 4 Gospels and basically ignore whatever Paul wrote. |
