| Author | Message | ||
| Bb Registered user Username: Bb Post Number: 53 Registered: 7-2004 |
Apparently it was not a social issue in EGW's day so (as far as I know) SHE didn't address it. And we know that she denounced jewelry and wine, etc. So maybe the reason SDA's are not involved in the issue or even accept pro-choice is because they flounder without her guidance in the matter. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 876 Registered: 3-2004 |
Ii looks like it goes along with the man who sold drugs to send his children to the SDA school, someone Susan-2 knows, and the people who have relatives who have left the SDA church and attend a church on Sunday. The drug dealer is thought more of then those who study their Bible and worship God and attend church on a different day. What convoluted, confused thinking. I never realized how important appearances are to the SDAs. It looks like the SDA people cannot think for themselves. And when they do and it is something the SDA church does not agree with, then they are condemned if they do not keep their thoughts/opinions to themselves. I have said before and will say again, just give me Jesus. He is straight forward with what he wants and it is not hard to understand. Love him with all our heart, all our soul and all our mind and love our neighbor as ourselves. I cannot do it by myself, but I have a awesome teacher and helper in Jesus and the Holy Spirit. When I do what Jesus wants, it is done with His help and he makes up the deficiencies so it is perfect in the Father's sight. Where else can we get that kind of help??? I recognized a long time ago that the SDAs could not talk about their personal mistakes or problems and ask help with them. They had to look so perfect. No wonder that a church member told a friend of mine in VA, when I asked for prayer for certain problems, "tell Diana to quit complaining". I understand it much better now. That does not mean I agree, just that I understand. She could not admit she was not perfect and did not like it because I did. But then my name had been off the church books for a long time and I had learned a lot about God and his love for me. Thank you God. You are SOOO awesome. Diana | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 882 Registered: 3-2004 |
I may be repeating myself, but I will do it anyway. It is about perfection. When my son was about 12 years of age I was driving with him in Alexandria, VA. I said something about being perfect and my son agreed with me. Now to my way of thinking when a 12 year old agrees a parent is perfect they have something else on their mind, so I asked him his definition of perfection. His answer was, "One who makes mistakes and knows how to apologize". I have never forgotten that. With that definition I am perfect. Our awesome God gave me an awesome son. Diana | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1278 Registered: 11-2002 |
This sort-of works into the topic on this hread. I just plain don't like making new threads, I like adding on to existing ones. As many of you by now know, I have a total disdain for SDA propaganda, otherwise known as SDA published reading material. Depending on my mood th SDA magazine I least have any respect for is The Signs. The writers seem to talk down to the readers, if you know what I mean. Generally the writing of The Signs seems that the authors think the readers are totally stupid. There just is very little of substance in that magazine. Now, you all go get the Janurary 2005 issue of The Signs. Go to pages 26 and 27 to the story called, I'm NOT Going To Heaven When I Die. The authors name is not listed, instead it says the author prefers to remain anonymous. For good reason, too. I'd sure be embarrased to have my name on that article! The story is about two ladies who find themselves walking through an old cementary. The discussion then gets around to what happens after death. One says she doesn't want to go to heaven because it would be too heartbreaking for her to see all the sorrow here on the earth. Then they iscuss the possiblity that maybe the loved ones in heaven are unaware of the sadness here on earth. Then they decided that just won't cut it because they would know they are unaware and the awareness that they don't know would be too unbareable. But, wait. It gets even more goofy. Then they decided that heaven would not be a very good place to be after all, no one could enjoy it because of the emotioal distress of either knowing the sadness here on earth or the frustration of not knowing what's happening here on earth. Then they realize no dead person is in heaven, they are resting in the grave. And, here is the last paragraph, "It's comforting to know that should I die before Jesus comes, I'll have a chance to catch up while God works out the final details concerning our planet. Then, when Jesus comes, I'll wake up, and along with my friends and family, meet Him in the air. Now, that's what I call real life ater death"! There are some other corny articles in this issue but really made by blood boil, especially when I got to the bottom and read that the author refused to give his or hr name. | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 268 Registered: 4-2000 |
It is my understanding, to their credit, that most Seventh-day Adventists are actually pro-life. However, the official stance from the SDA Church remains pro-abortion. Dennis J. Fischer | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 212 Registered: 10-2004 |
Susan, What on earth do you think the part about "a chance to catch up" means?! I can't figure that out. My sister said maybe it means catch up on sleep! LOL. Jeremy | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 213 Registered: 10-2004 |
What I don't understand is how can anyone claim the "SDA Church" is the "Remnant Church" which keeps the "Ten Commandments" when they break the 6th commandment?! And Diana, shouldn't all of the verses saying not to murder be enough to tell us that abortion is a sin? The baby is a human being from conception--the Bible and science support this. For example, in Luke 1, John the Baptist leaped for joy before he was born and he leaped because of JESUS who had JUST been conceived! Clearly, they were both already human beings.  To abort a baby is to murder a human being. I don't see why a Bible verse about abortion would even be needed. Jeremy | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1279 Registered: 11-2002 |
Jeremy, I should have typed in "catch up on my rest". I sincerely apologise that my copying leaves a lot to be desired. In other words, since death is only resting in the grave then while she's in the grave she gets to catch up on her rest. I had never thought of death in this way. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 883 Registered: 3-2004 |
Jeremy, I needed something more. That is just me. Diana | ||
| Newfriend Registered user Username: Newfriend Post Number: 3 Registered: 1-2005 |
I think that the SDA most definitley do believe that humans have spirits. They believe we basically sleep until Jesus returns and then we are resurrected, but as far as I know they do most definitely believe that humans have spirits. But, what started making me feel sick in the pit of my stomach is that I was hearing with my ears that they some SDA do believe in abortion. Some did and some didn't. But, my impression was that as a church they were very indifferent to abortion. When I went through my Bible study packet meeting with one of the associate Pastors weekly -- I had brought up the reason I had left the one sabbath school class that I had started going to when I went to the church for the first time a year ago. I told him because the people in that discussion class believe in abortion and I told him that abortion is murder. He said to me, " we can't tell people they can't have and abortion." I told him that it is wrong when he said that to me. I also thought like you do -- they hate the Catholics but the Catholics don't want babies murdered and keep that commandment that "thou shall not murder". I thought to myself that I would rather break the commandment of not keeping the Sabbath and keep the one about thou shall not murder. I was heart broken. That was the very first church I had ever joined. I joined and got baptized in August 2004 after having gone there for 8 months. I was so excited. I became very depressed about the abortion issue. Later, while in the middle of my second Bible study packet, I learned point blank that they believe that Jesus and Michael the archangel is the same person. That I could not stand because that is breaking the commandment thou shall not commit idolatry. So, I have not been back for about a month now -- since I learned that about Michael the archangel. I was very in shock to learn that. But, I am okay now. I read the scriptures and knew that was incorrect. Could you put something on here to have a discussion about thier Michael the archangel doctrine? | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 915 Registered: 3-2004 |
Newfriend, Welcome to FAF. I have forgotten all my SDA doctrine, so I cannot explain about Michael the archangel. So I will just welcome you. I pray that you will find what you need here as you study the Bible for yourself. God will send the Holy Spirit to teach you. God is truly awesome. Diana | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 242 Registered: 10-2004 |
Hello Newfriend, welcome! We're glad to have you here. What the SDAs teach about the human spirit is that it is simply the breath. Therefore, at death, the spirit and the whole person ceases to exist! When brought to it's logical conclusion, a resurrection would be impossible since the person had completely ceased to exist. The SDAs don't just teach soul sleep, they teach soul death and soul ceasing! The SDA-published book When A Man Dies says on page 20: "So in death there is no life. The man does not live; the body does not live; the soul does not live; the spirit does not live; the mind does not live. Intelligence ends, consciousness ends, memory ends, knowledge ends, thought ends. All that has comprised the man ends" Dale Ratzlaff has a great study on this in his booklet called The Truth Aobut Seventh-day Adventist "Truth" which can be downloaded for free right here: http://www.ratzlaf.com/Truth%20About%20Truth%20for%20PDF.pdf It is a great booklet to read. Also available for purchase at http://www.ratzlaf.com/ are some great books, including Cultic Doctrine of Seventh-day Adventists and Sabbath in Christ, both written by Dale Ratzlaff, which may be of help to you. Check out this web page about Michael the Archangel: http://www.truthorfables.com/Is_Michael_Christ.htm We can also have a discussion on here about it, if you would like. You can also try searching this forum (using the "Search" link at the far top right of every page) for previous discussions about Michael the Archangel. God bless! Jeremy | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1223 Registered: 12-2003 |
Welcome, Newfriend! I'm happy you're here. I second Jeremy's suggestion that you use the "search" function at the bottom of the thread to look for previous discussions of Jesus as Michael the Archangel--there have been some good discussions about it. Briefly, it is an Adventist teaching. It is undoubtedly derived from Adventism's early belief that Jesus was not inherently God but was God's created son. I've even heard (although I haven't actually seen this in Ellen's books--Jeremy, do you know if it's there?) that Jesus became Michael before he became human in order to relate to the angels like He later related to humans. It's just unbiblical heresy. Colleen | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 452 Registered: 1-2003 |
Hi Newfriend. Imagine what I had to endure (as well as all the befuddled people in the audience) as my children's Christmas play 2-years ago was entitled "Angels Aware"...it was all about how Michael became Jesus. Most non-SDA in the audience didn't understand the heresy talking place on stage but I did...and I had to sit through two showings of that stupid musical. Synopsis: Angels played a huge part in the salvation of man...they got together and thought of the plan of salvation and Michael approached the Father and asked to die for the humans...Blasphemy! Just another way to malign the character of God, just like that blasphemous quote from Ellen stating that Satan repented with tears and God was unmoved! How dare she! | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 244 Registered: 10-2004 |
Colleen, I haven't seen anything like that in EGW's writings. EGW seemed to teach that He was created as an angel and then was exalted to "Son of God" and "made equal with God" and then inhabited (not really became as the Bible says) a human. The first I had heard of Jesus becoming an angel to relate to the angels better was in that letter in the last issue of Proclamation!! I was especially shocked by the statement in that letter that the Father created "angelic flesh" for Jesus, as if there even is such a thing! But then again, EGW did say satan has flesh (contrary to the Bible which says we fight not against flesh and blood)! But actually, the woman who wrote the letter in Proclamation! was actually trying to make EGW sound less heretical than she is, I believe, by making it sound like Jesus was eternal/always God and then became an angel, when EGW seems to teach that He was created as an angel! Newfriend, I'm interested to know if the SDA church taught you all of their doctrines before they baptized you (as their official Church Manual says they're supposed to)? Did you have to sign the "Baptismal Vow"? Did they tell you about their prophet Ellen G. White (EGW)? Besides the Michael the Archangel doctrine, another doctrine which they teach and which their prophet Ellen G. White fully taught (but that just like with the Michael doctrine they won't state in their "27 Fundamental Beliefs") is that Satan is the scapegoat typified in Leviticus 16--and that Satan bears the penalty for the sins of the righteous but not the wicked, and that he therefore gets rewarded by God for keeping people out of heaven--he doesn't have to suffer as much. This is part of the fulfillment of the Day of Atonement and the sins of the righteous are not actually blotted out and remembered no more until Satan bears them!! This is all taught clearly in the writings of prophetess Ellen G. White, whose writings the SDA church says in their official beliefs are "an authoritative source of truth"! They believe Ellen G. White's writings to be inspired by God. Jeremy | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 245 Registered: 10-2004 |
Another point on the "angelic flesh" thing. EGW also said that the Father has a body just like Jesus' body--whatever that meant. I guess EGW/SDA's just can't even imagine any beings without flesh since they don't believe in human spirits! I guess they don't believe in spirits at all--everything is physical/material. They are like the Sadducees: "For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, neither angel, nor spirit:" (Acts 23:8a KJV.) Jeremy | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1238 Registered: 12-2003 |
Jeremy, good point. I believe that, bottom line, Adventists do believe everything is physical in some form. I've never heard it specifically taught, but indirectly that seems to be their "universal" view. Colleen | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1340 Registered: 11-2002 |
Amazing Facts has a booklet about the Michael/Jesus combination. Welcome, Newfriend. And, yes the SDA church is not anti-abortion. I believe they even preform elective abortions in their church owned medical facilities. | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 250 Registered: 10-2004 |
Yes, they do, Susan, and according to the Beem's letter in the stories section of this web site, they even perform partial-birth abortions at at least one SDA hospital. I recommend reading the Beem's letter, Newfriend. You can read it here: http://www.formeradventist.com/beem.html Jeremy | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 357 Registered: 10-2004  |
Here is a bizarre news story about an Adventist hospital: http://news4colorado.com/localnews/local_story_025130132.html The CEO of the hospital did admit that they perform abortions, though. Jeremy |
