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Windmotion
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Username: Windmotion

Post Number: 104
Registered: 6-2001
Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 10:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I found out today my (historical adventist) father-in-law refers to me as the "happy pagan." I don't know whether to laugh or cry. I have tried so hard to get along with him, and I thought things were going really well. Part of me wants to call him up and tell him I will talk with him about the Sabbath or the Investigative Judgment or Ellen White any time he wants, but a bigger part of me says this is a very bad idea. He never said it to my face, so he may not know that I know. Any thoughts?
Frustratedly,
Hannah
Bob
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Username: Bob

Post Number: 76
Registered: 7-2000


Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 10:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If he didn't say it to your face, then what he thinks of you is none of your business. I doubt if you were really surprised that he considers you a "pagan."

Look on the bright side - at least he has noticed you are happy!

Windmotion
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Username: Windmotion

Post Number: 105
Registered: 6-2001
Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 10:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you Bob. I should have added he told it to my husband, so he had to know it would get back to me! And when I think of pagans I think of tree-worshippers and fire walkers, so no, I didn't know he thought of me in that way.
But as an update, I decided to "heap coals of fire on his head" so to speak.
When we were visiting for New Years, I noticed he had the "Newton" family tree on the wall in his study. I asked him if he was related to Isaac Newton, and I think he actually is, somehow. I then asked him if he had ever heard of John Newton, author of Amazing Grace. He said he had not, and I tried to tell him the story behind it, the little I could remember. I told him I would find the whole thing and get back to him, which, I, uh, pretty much forgot about until now.
I found a web site version that didn't look too contemporary or too secular but still had quite a bit of the gospel of grace in it and emailed it to him.
I hope he sees it as a thoughtful gesture on my part and not too preachy. (although if the preachy part makes him think, that's OK) If anyone is curious about the story, I will post my letter. The story is a little long.
Cautiously,
Hannah
Pw
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Username: Pw

Post Number: 327
Registered: 6-2004
Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 6:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Bible does say "If possible, live at peace with everyone". Notice it says "if". It's hard to take a personal remark like that and just shrug it off. Try not to dwell on it because it can take root in your emotions and come out one day if a heated debate ever would surface. I'd rather be a pagan in the eyes of an SDA than in the eyes of God.
Hrobinsonw
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Username: Hrobinsonw

Post Number: 137
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 7:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hannah,

I am going through something similar. I would say to let it ride until he brings it to you. There is no point of having an argument. Hey you are a "happy pagan" and he is a "half a$$ Jew," so it evens out.
Tracey
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Username: Tracey

Post Number: 190
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 7:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rob, Oh my gosh!!! What are we gonna do with you??!! You are so radical and funny!
C is soo not ready to meet the likes of you!: )

I will email you soon with the update about him.
Some noticeable points? I took a bite of my chicken sandwich recently, ate from a fork that he touched my fish with at dinner, prays in Jesus name and to Jesus more now, seems slightly freer and happier.. for example, he works at not being time concious and says well, I will just do it when I feel like it (he usually says I will do X in ten minutes or at 8:50) He just seems to be loosening up some.

No conversations about the differences but I continue to study my behind off on this cultish stuff.

How is D doing? When is the baby due?
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 1463
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 8:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hannah, did your husband stand behind you when his father said that about you?

I agree that for you to make it an issue would be argumentative. Your husband is really the one who should say something if he thinks his parents are disrespecting you.

Let us know if your FIL responds to the John Newton story.

Colleen
Seekr777
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Username: Seekr777

Post Number: 55
Registered: 1-2003


Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 9:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Please be careful, my wife sometimes reads over my shoulder when I'm on here. She is Jewish.

"and he is a "half a$$ Jew,""

That would have started a discussion about Christians I would not enjoy having with her. With most Jews there is a sensitivity to such comments.

Richard
Seekr777
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Username: Seekr777

Post Number: 56
Registered: 1-2003


Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 9:14 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hannah

I think calling someone a "happy pagan" is a VERY poor choice of words but it might have been done affectionately. Your in a position to know that better than I am since you know him.

When I read what he said I had the image of a man affectionately teasing in his comment. Maybe you are "growing on him" and he is feeling warmer in his attitude.

I may be way off on this and you are best able to tell.

Keep your eyes on HIM and he will lift you up in His arms.

Richard

Hrobinsonw
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Username: Hrobinsonw

Post Number: 139
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 9:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry Seekr777, as Tracey well knows, I am pretty blunt with my tongue. That is something that I am constantly working on. Oh, and Tracey the baby is due July 26. One day before my sisters birthday, so you know that she is going crazy.
Susan_2
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Username: Susan_2

Post Number: 1568
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 11:24 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, to be a bit unkind towards the SDA's all I can say about the comment is that SDA's tend to be unkind toward people who don't understand Bibical truth as they do. Is he nice to you when you are actually together? Or does he flaunt a superiority attitude over you because he has the truth and you don't? This of course gets into all the Bibical counsil about humility but I won't go there now. It is interesting to note that he has noticed you are happy. At least he didn't refer to you as "That miserable pagon." And, if misery likes company I will let you know there are many of us on here who have had to put up with some extremely unkind remarks from our SDA kin, it is not uncommon. I am not saying these things to minimize your feelings. It is very unkind of him to say those sorts of things because it denies your faith in Jesus. But, him being SDA well, that is how the SDA's think. My dad if he was still alive would be 95. He passed away two years ago. He was raised SDA from birth. His entire life he referred to Synday-keepers as "those heathen" and he believed Easter was the most heathen of all days. Never could anyone convince him that people who attend church on Sunday aren't "Sunday-keepers". If we would drive past a church on Sundays as the people were going in or getting out or just by his seeing the cars in the parking lots of the churches he would comment about "those heathen who worship Sunday". Not the people who were worshipping Jesus as Lord and Savior on Sunday but "those people who worship Sunday". It can be very depressing. Let's all pray for your father-in-law that he will soften his heart.
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 1468
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 11:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Richard, is your wife a practicing Jew? I can't remember whether or not you've mentioned that. If she is (and even if she isn't), I can imagine what difficulty there must be for you to openly embrace Jesus at home (and I'm sure you do). Not an easy road to travel...but, as you say, you are in His arms. 2 Corinthians 12:9 to you!

Colleen
Seekr777
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Username: Seekr777

Post Number: 58
Registered: 1-2003


Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 12:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Colleen, well "practicing" has many definitions. :-) She is practicing in the reformed Jewish tradition. She attends the High Holidays and other special services and also a Torah Study twice a month.

She preformed her adult Bat Mizah sp? a few years ago and as part of the service I was invited up to the bema (front) to speak and extend a blessing to her.

I attend the Torah study with her fairly often. This past week we were in a study of the establishment of the Sanctuary. In the time we have we don't get very much in depth.

You are right in the difficulties that are there. If i didn't turn it over to Jesus it would be to much some times.

Richard

PS: This next Tuesday evening she is putting on a reading/3 act play at the temple which she and her good friend wrote. It deals with the relationship between Sara and Rachel.
Windmotion
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Username: Windmotion

Post Number: 106
Registered: 6-2001
Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 12:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My father-in-law is generally very nice to me, although about a year ago he commented that if he had enough time he could convert me to Adventism. Uh huh. I doubt his comment was said in a heart warming sort of way, since in the same conversation he told my husband to read the book of Jonah. My husband had been venting about losing his job recently over something that wasn't his fault. My "wise" father-in-law suggested God was bringing trouble into my husband's life to draw him back to adventism. In hindsight, my husband said he should have reminded his dad of the parable of the man who had been blind from birth. Everyone thought he was blind because his parents had sinned. NOT JESUS! Or Job. Everyone thought Job was losing his stuff because he had sinned. NOT GOD!!
Anyway, I'm waiting for an answer back on the email, but I don't expect one too soon because he is a doctor and very busy. He also doesn't have an email address so I had to send it to his wife, whom I keep in regular email contact with.
Patiently,
Hannah
Susan_2
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Username: Susan_2

Post Number: 1570
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 1:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Richard, Don't you just LOVE all that wonderful Jewish food? I love finding a Jewish deli and eating all that wonderful food. Back when I was young I went out several times with a young Jewish man. He took me to Temple several times on Friday evenings. After the service I was privvy to him being a 100% total pervert and when I wouldn't induldge in his pervert fantasies with him he broke down and cried, just sobbed telling me that he could never find a woman to induldge him in his fantasies. I never went out with him again. However, I ran into his brother who told me he found someone in LA that he could pay to do to him what he wanted. That everyone is the extent of my going out with a Jew. I did like the Temple service though. They read on the left page from the bottom up. That's cool
Esther
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Username: Esther

Post Number: 139
Registered: 5-2004


Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 1:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hannah,
I get that a bit too, that things are rough because we're "out of the fold". Well, I always come back with a reference to Job. Look at all that happened to him, and how his friends accused him of angering God, yet his faith was sure. Don't know if I'm on the same plane as Job, but it helps to redirect their thinking!
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 1469
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 2:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Isn't it odd? If we suffer, it's God punishing us. If we are blessed, it's a Satanic deception masquerading as God blessing us. At least the latter is the one we have heard several times.

Colleen
Seekr777
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Username: Seekr777

Post Number: 59
Registered: 1-2003


Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 5:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Susan, :-) my wife actually eats quite simply. I do know what you mean about the food it is surely an experience to go to a Jewish Deli.

I've also attended some interesting Jewish Passovers with some fun food.

richard
Flyinglady
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Username: Flyinglady

Post Number: 1087
Registered: 3-2004


Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 6:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hannah,
I have added your name to my prayer list. God has led you this far and He is not going to drop you. It may feel like it at times, but He keeps hold of each one of us.
Diana
Chris
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Username: Chris

Post Number: 661
Registered: 7-2003


Posted on Sunday, February 27, 2005 - 10:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hannah, it's interesting that so many SDAs seem to expect formers will be punished by God. My MIL once made the comment that she wants to be there for our children when it all falls apart for us. So whenever something bad happens in our life, as I suppose it inevitably will sooner or later, my in-laws are poised to see it as a divine judgment. I'm kinda hoping God will protect me from hardship just to prove them wrong :-)

Chris
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 1488
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Sunday, February 27, 2005 - 10:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh, Chris--I understand your feelings!

And if you do experience hardship, the thing that will most astonish your MIL is that you will walk through it with grace and faith and calmness and contenment in the Spirit that will completely confuse her. Love, joy, and peace are gifts of the Spirit, and they shock those who do not have them themselves.

I continue to keep you in prayer, Chris!

Colleen
Jeremy
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Username: Jeremy

Post Number: 371
Registered: 10-2004


Posted on Monday, February 28, 2005 - 5:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And I have to wonder what the response would be if you told them something like, "No, this hardship is not because I have followed Jesus out of Adventism. But the Bible promises me 'that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose,' so I have nothing to worry about."

Hmmm. How would they process that?

Jeremy
Flyinglady
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Username: Flyinglady

Post Number: 1107
Registered: 3-2004


Posted on Monday, February 28, 2005 - 6:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I had not lived near my younger sister for more than 20 years. When I moved to NV and started attending church she never said anything. But when my job situation changed, I know she watched closely, because her daughter mentioned something to me about it and I had not said anything to my niece. So when I quit going to the SDA church my sister noticed and even went to my baptism in my new church. She watches what I do when I have problems and I do ask her to pray for me. So I just pray that I set the example God wants me to set.
Any way I look at Him, He is awesome.
Diana

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