| Author |
Message |
Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 1621
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Friday, March 04, 2005 - 11:01 am: |     |
When I was a kid the SDA church met in the mornings and the WCG met in the afternoon. My parents knew Garner Ted personally and he had given them a personal invitation to attend the WCG. Actually, I think it was Garner Ted's brother that gave the invitation, the brother who got killed in the airplain accident (car wreck?). Anyway, Saturdays were pretty boring for me because we'd go to the SDA first, then either rush home for lunch or bring a packed lunch (remember no restruants on Saturdays) and then go to the WGC for the afternoon. Sometimes we'd go to the SDA for SS and then rush across towm to get the sermon at the Church of God (Seventh-day) and then go to the WCG in the afternoons. When I was younger I attended the WCG frequently. At one point I asked the minister about becomming a member. He told me he'd heard I was studying nursing at the local college and I told him he was correct. He told me no one in the health care profession that did not practice all natural home redemies only could belong to the WCG because they relied only on God for healing. I never went back. Thank-you, Jesus! BTW, Herbert W. Armstrongs first wife was left to die because she was not allowed to get the medical care she needed-for a hernia no less. It was so sad. My grandfather corrosponded with HWA and some of EGW's cronies. He chose SDA. In my community are some diehard HWA devotees. The SDA church rents out its social hall on Saturday afternoons to those HWA devotees. I just tell people I had a very religiouselly schitzopherenic childhood. |
Tracey
Registered user
Username: Tracey
Post Number: 214
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Friday, March 04, 2005 - 12:27 pm: | |
Colleen,
This also helps me, thank you.
But what do I answer to this -- We can keep the sabbath perfectly b/c we have the Holy Spirit, thanks to Jesus?
Should I just say Show me where it says you can keep it perfect and holy -- show me! Show me, you nut?!!
: ) sorry! |
Tracey
Registered user
Username: Tracey
Post Number: 215
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Friday, March 04, 2005 - 12:29 pm: | |
Regarding above -- anyone can answer really.
Tracey |
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 389
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Friday, March 04, 2005 - 12:49 pm: | |
Ask him, "where does it say the Holy Spirit will help you keep an obsolete shadow perfectly?" ;-)
And why do we need to?
Hehe. Maybe someone can give a better answer. 
Jeremy |
Tracey
Registered user
Username: Tracey
Post Number: 216
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Friday, March 04, 2005 - 12:53 pm: | |
Jeremy,
That answer is sooo over his head! Heck, it's almost over mine!
|
Greg
Registered user
Username: Greg
Post Number: 42
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Friday, March 04, 2005 - 1:47 pm: | |
Tracey,
I think what Jeremy is referring to is Colossians 2:16-17:
quote:Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day--things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ. -Colossians 2:16-17
Hebrews 3 and 4 talk about how the Israelites, to whom the Old Covenant was given, were not able to enter the Sabbath rest because of disobedience (breaking the law). But with the death and resurrection of Christ (covering our sins), we again are able to enter that rest, and again a "day of rest" is given to us--Today:
quote:It still remains that some will enter that rest, and those who formerly had the gospel preached to them did not go in, because of their disobedience. Therefore God again set a certain day, calling it Today... -Hebrews 4:6-7A
The Old Testament is filled with ceremonies and rituals that pointed to the Messiah. These "types" were put in place to point the way to Christ, so the Isrealites would know him when he arrived. The Sabbath is one such type--it was originally a day of rest for the Israelites who had previously not had rest under the Egyptian rule. Now that Christ is here, we have that rest every day. As Jesus said about Himself:
quote:Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest. -Matthew 11:28
Those who continue to insist that the Sabbath is binding for Christians continue to keep a "shadow", while missing the "substance" that is Christ.
I hope this helps,
Greg |
Greg
Registered user
Username: Greg
Post Number: 43
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Friday, March 04, 2005 - 1:48 pm: | |
Tracey,
Oops, for some reason I thought you said the response was over your head. Oh well, I hope you found that interesting.
Greg |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 1517
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 04, 2005 - 1:49 pm: | |
Tracey, the burden of proof is on him to show you from the New Testament that A) the law God writes on our hearts is the 10 Commandments, and B) that Jesus is the fulfillment of the law, but that fulfillment excludes the Sabbath (Colossians 2:16-17 says the Sabbath is a shadow of Christ but the reality of Jesus), and C) that Galatians 3-4 isn't talking about the 10 Commandments, and D) Paul really didn't mean it when he said in Romans 3:21: "But now a righteousness from God, apart from the law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify."
There's no real answer for Adventist arguments if the person isn't really wanting to understand. All those who've participate on the O'Fill site can attest to this reality. Adventists "see" the world and "truth" in a specific way, and they understand all these Scriptures in a way that makes sense to them. Of course, their understandings are skewed, but they have a "seamless" theology certified by Ellen to back them up. When the Bible itself seems a bit unclear to them, they always know in the backs of their heads that Ellen explained it, so even if they're stumbling with the texts, THEY ARE RIGHT.
If he's really wanting to learn, the answer to his questions will involve tying together ideas from various places in order to show the fallacy of SDA doctrines. Tracey, just pray that God will give you the right words and texts when you need them. You might even be surprised to discover that you'll have words coming out of your mouth you never thought to say before.
Praying for you both!
Colleen |
Tracey
Registered user
Username: Tracey
Post Number: 220
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Friday, March 04, 2005 - 1:55 pm: | |
LOL!
That's okay Greg, I appreciate it just the same..
He would then answer that the sabbath is of course moral, not ceremonial, as you well know.
I bought a few copies of your book and C read it in a short period, less than a week, if I remember correctly. Of course he disagreed with some of what you wrote, but was fine with EW being a false prophet. "Your interpretation",you see.
Anywhoo, I took great hope in it knowing if one deep as yourself came out, certainly a watered down version could as well! |
Tracey
Registered user
Username: Tracey
Post Number: 221
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Friday, March 04, 2005 - 2:04 pm: | |
Colleen,
I just copied and printed what you wrote (as well as Jeremy and Esther)
I think I should take a sedative before our study!!
I am going to memorize these 3 points that you mentioned regarding him proving his beliefs biblically in those 3 areas.
That's why it's so good to talk to you and others, because as much as I understand of his beliefs, You understand the thinking behind the beliefs and that insight is important. Because of how you phrased that first paragraph, (prove Paul didn't really mean X)... I would've said "But Paul said X, and Paul said X" It doesn't occur to me to throw his beliefs back onto him and require him to prove it.
Whew! Lord, help! I will update you Sunday..
Thanks for the prayers!
Tracey |
Greg
Registered user
Username: Greg
Post Number: 44
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Friday, March 04, 2005 - 3:41 pm: | |
Tracey,
I'm not sure but I believe you think I might be Greg Taylor, based on your comment about buying my book. I am not he, but after my experience participating in the O'Ffill forum, maybe I should write a book
Greg |
Bmorgan
Registered user
Username: Bmorgan
Post Number: 22
Registered: 7-2000
| | Posted on Friday, March 04, 2005 - 3:59 pm: | |
Yes, Greg, you REALLY need to write the book:
"_How to talk to an SDA, if you MUST, without loosing your cool."
It will be a bestseller. I am praying you. Please hang in there, Greg. You are an inspiration. Besides,I need the comic relief from the faithfuls(die-hards), Walk-in and Col-p.
bmorgan |
Tracey
Registered user
Username: Tracey
Post Number: 223
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Friday, March 04, 2005 - 6:17 pm: | |
oh.
lol! |
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