| Author |
Message |
Belvalew
Registered user
Username: Belvalew
Post Number: 187
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 08, 2005 - 10:56 am: |     |
Dear Karenjw,
A little over 10 years when I was processing out I remember that a GC secretary of some sort was sent to one of our local SDA churches to talk about makeup and jewelry (I live in California). The place was packed, so it seems it was an interesting topic.
At that meeting he admitted that EGW frequently wore jewelry of various types, but her favorite pieces were brooches. That is why pins and brooches have never really been tabooed in the SDA church. Anyway, he confessed that not only were Mrs. White's own pendants airbrushed, but there were times that they were airbrushed off the necks of her daughters-in-law. The ones that were removed from the daughters-in-law had been gifts to them from EGW, therefore they wore them for family pictures to show their gratitude for the gifts.
The bottom line of his afternoon meeting was that he admitted there is really no Biblical taboo against jewelry or makeup, but then he asked that those standards be maintained because it set SDA's apart as a special people, and helped them to remain recognizable.
The group had a question and answer period and the tone that remained at the end of the meeting was, "Wow, now we can be who we want to be, and express ourselves and we choose." The poor GC Secretary was uncomfortable with having to do his assigned duty, that much was clear to me.
I have often wondered since if they sent out others to other parts of the country, or if they knew they had to address the California problem, because a great number of Californian Adventists had already come to the conclusion that they were going to dress and accessorize as they saw fit.
In my own background, I faded out of the Adventist church in my 20's, but came back when I had small children of my own. I wanted to make sure they learned about Jesus, and the only model I had of that was the SDA Church. When I arrived back, however, I wore earrings and a ring on each hand. I was pretty much ignored until they found I had a Biblical knowledge that could be used as a SS teacher. They wooed me into accepting the post, then told me I had to not wear the jewelry if I was going to be a teacher.
I took it off--when I was around them.
Belva |
Riverfonz
Registered user
Username: Riverfonz
Post Number: 23
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 08, 2005 - 11:23 am: | |
Karen, Welcome to FAF. Thanks for expressing yourself so well above. Many of us on this site have been through the same painful journey, and I also had the joy of seeing my Dad process out over 10 years, and he was the most SDA of anybody. It is a painful process, but well worth it. But this is the place to bring your concerns and may God bless you in your journey. Stan |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 1545
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 08, 2005 - 11:59 am: | |
Hi, Karenjw--welcom to the forum! We're happy to have you here, and we know how dazed and off-balance you must feel.
We have ALL experienced those feelings as we discovered that reality was different from what we had learned as Adventists.
We look forward to hearing more of your story and experiences. We can completely empathize!
Colleen |
Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 1647
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 08, 2005 - 1:27 pm: | |
Karen, Welcome and I hope this forum is a help to you. Are you just now quitting the SDA? I think EGW claimed to be a messanger from God. To my understanding she never used the word 'prophit' in reference to herself. She definatelly was a profit though! However, on a more serious note, no matter how she referred to herself many SDA's use the word prophit when referring to EGW. This can be verified by reading the discussions on the various SDA websites as well as CARM and some of the other discussion forums. Also, by reading the SDa publications you will see that they themselves refer to EGW as a prophit. Cleaning out my garage awhile back I came across a little book for children calleed, 'Jennifer Meets A Prophit" and it is about a little girl named Jennifer who is Australian who gets to meet a real prophit, EGW. The book has to have been endorsed by the SDA's because it says Pacific Press as the publisher. Belva, it is amusing to read how the General Conference deals with Californians. I have a close friend who is a born and raised and always willbe dedicated Catholic. She tells me The Vatican/Pope generally just has very little use for American Catholics. But, he (the pope) just plain abhours Californian Catholics. I guess us Californians, regardless of demoninational affiliation will just do our own thing. |
Freeatlast
Registered user
Username: Freeatlast
Post Number: 302
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 08, 2005 - 1:47 pm: | |
It may be helpful for contextual purposes to review the official Seventh-day Adventist Fundamental Belief #17:
17. The Gift of Prophecy:
One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is PROPHECY. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was MANIFESTED IN THE MINISTRY OF ELLEN G. WHITE. AS THE LORD'S MESSENGER, her writings are a continuing and AUTHORITATIVE SOURCE of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)
This was taken directly from the official Seventh-day Adventist website, adventist.org. ALL EMPHASES MINE.
Hope this helps with your study! |
Seekr777
Registered user
Username: Seekr777
Post Number: 77
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 08, 2005 - 1:56 pm: | |
Karen I also want to welcome you to this fellowship of believers in Christ. While I'm not officially a "former" SDA yet, I still wish to welcome you. I have felt welcome and enjoyed the Christ centered spirit I find.
I feel as followers of Christ we win many more by pointing others to HIM rather than winning a debate. I usually "bail" when a debate starts because neither side is really listening to the other. Sometimes God calls me to interceed and say nothing. I only wish I had as much "book" knowledge as some others here I learn from.
A quick addition to information some know about me. While still a member and active in my local SDA church I also have membership in a local Sunday church in my area and worship in several others on a fairly regular basis. I have been greatly blessed by my time with other Christians. None of this is an attempt to win souls to Adventistism but to come before our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ in worship. I have learned so much in this way. In fact the local church does not baptize into the SDA church but into Christ and then they can choose to join the denomination or just the local church.
I know that some may find this strange and maybe even feel I'm being dishonest but I know that I'm on a "journey" of discovery as I allow myself to rest in His presence and quietly listen to what He wants in my life. It is also scary for me since I can't get out ahead of His will for me at this time. It is particularly scary since I know all the answers just ask me.  I know I have a ministry both to those within the SDA church and within the "CHURCH" of Christ.
In Christ,
Richard
rtruitt@mac.com |
Jeannette
Registered user
Username: Jeannette
Post Number: 90
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 08, 2005 - 2:41 pm: | |
Karen, welcome to the forum. I know exactly how you are feeling. That is how I felt when I found out about EGW and the SDA church. My brother (a non-beleiver) told me about this site, it has been a tremendous blessing to me. I am more of a "listener" than a "talker" so I don't post too often. May God bless you in your journey.
Jeannette |
Carol_2
Registered user
Username: Carol_2
Post Number: 282
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 08, 2005 - 5:09 pm: | |
Welcome Karen! We're so glad you're here. You will find a great support group here.
Richard, we love and value you just as you are! You are a blessing to us all. |
Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 1651
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 08, 2005 - 6:03 pm: | |
Richard, Do you ever attend litergical church services? If so, do you find a litergical worship particurally inspiring? Or, are you more inclined to a contemporary prostatent service? Like maybe Baptist, Nazarine, etc.? Do you ever attend the Orthothdox worship services? What exactally about the different types of Christian worship has you prefer one type over another? Are there any sorts of service types that you just plain don't care for much? If so, which ones and how come? How about the Holy Days services? Monday Thursday? Good Friday? Festival of the Three Kings? All Saints Day service? In the Lutheran tradition we even have one special day that I think just might be excliusive to Lurtheran. It's called Refermation Day. It's a big deal in the Lutheran tradition. You know, the non-Sunday services for special events throughout Christianity that warrent a service, do you attend those? I'd like to hear about your different church experiences. |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 1164
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 08, 2005 - 6:25 pm: | |
Karen,
Another welcome to FAF. We are glad you are here. You will find that you can say what you want and some one will have gone through the same experience or similar to it.
When you are ready, tell us more of yourself.
I, too, was shocked when I found out about EGW and her plagiarism. I read all the proof and was blown away. But God had plans for me and He has them for you. And Karen, I was born, bred, and raised SDA for 63 years when I made my change last year. So how long you have been an SDA does not mean anything to God as long as you are teachable. And God knows who is teachable.
God is awesome,
Diana |
Karenjw
Registered user
Username: Karenjw
Post Number: 5
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 09, 2005 - 8:12 am: | |
Several of you suggested I share my story of how I got here to this forum. I have been trying to figure this out myself. For 42 years I have been SDA, I have strained so hard to live up to what I understood a good SDA should be and do. Reading Testimonies until I threw it on the floor and declared I was lost if that is what a true Christian is! Over and over I failed, and was so frustrated I would quit going to church, sometimes for months or years.
But of course I was convinced that SDA has the true message and anything else is a step down, so I lived with the fear of eternal condemnation if I didnít straighten up.
The last time I quit going to church, I started going to Alcoholics Anonymous and realized I could actually pray to God without having the SDA shadow over my head. wow! With enough AA teaching I realized I did not want to go back to legalism and condemnation, even though I still believed in the SDA message (I just knew it was all MY problem). This fear kept me from attending church for a while, but finally I started going once or twice a month. Not being the swiftest arrow in the quiver, it took me a year or more to realize they had deleted me from their records! I was no longer SDA!! I was crushed that they would throw me away like that without asking me whatís wrong or how can we help. Just about the same time I realized that, I was reading a daily meditation from Oswald Chambers entitled ěHave you Felt the Hurt of the Lord?î I want to quote a bit here, ěHave you felt the hurt of the Lord to the uncovered quick, the place where the real sensitiveness of your life is lodged? The devil never hurts there, neither sin nor human affection hurts there, nothing goes through that place but the word of God.ě
I really did feel a hurt to the quick. I did a search on the Internet for SDA counseling thinking if I could just get some counseling then I wouldnít fail at being SDA. I prayed as I searched and found Greg Taylorís website/story. I read it over and over. Never have I heard any reasonable explanation for why not to keep the Sabbath day but what Pastor Greg explained. My cage was/is rattled big time! Iím still reading and praying. Still am not declaring myself non-SDAÖbut I guess I am processing out, huh? Of all the needs and wants a person requires to thrive, I think unconditional love is number one and I did not get that from 99% of the SDAs in my church (I say with tears welling up in my eyes). Honestly, I did not give unconditional love either, Iíve been a miserable person for most of my life.
Thank all of you for your warm welcome and your prayers. Wish I could hug all of you!
-karen-
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Dd
Registered user
Username: Dd
Post Number: 374
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 09, 2005 - 8:48 am: | |
Karen,
You are NOT in this journey alone. Besides the Helper (Holy Spirit) promised in John (Jesus said the disciples were "better off" with the Holy Spirit than they were with Him physically living on earth), you can count on all your new friends on FAF to support and encourage you in your walk to find God's truths for your life. |
Melissa
Registered user
Username: Melissa
Post Number: 789
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 09, 2005 - 9:15 am: | |
Big hugs back, Karen. We are all sinners saved by grace ... and that's what's so amazing about grace. The more we grow and learn how impossible it is to live up to the righteous standard of God, the more a wonder it is how he would save us anyway because of Christ. I fail and fail and fail, yet God loves me anyway...the same way he loves you. HIS love is the only perfectly unconditional love you'll find, hard as others may try. Diana is famous for saying "God is awesome" and the more you learn about God's grace, and his mercy towards us, the more you too will understand how awesome he really is.
Peace to you, my blessed sister in Christ. There is NOW no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus.... |
Seekr777
Registered user
Username: Seekr777
Post Number: 81
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 09, 2005 - 10:06 am: | |
Karen a big HUG back from a brother in Christ. I continue to be blessed by the story of Greg Taylor. I think it was Richard here who gave me Greg's book and I was so touched by his journey. I could really identify with it. I still am processing and being blessed.
We do fail but we serve an AWESOME GOD ! ! !
Richard
rtruitt@mac.com |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 1559
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 09, 2005 - 10:49 am: | |
Another hug to you, Karen! I so relate to your metaphor of your cage rattling big-time.
Just out of curiosity, have you read any other books written by former Adventists such as Dale Ratzlaff's Sabbath in Christ and The Cultic Doctrine of Seventh-day Adventists? If not, they are immensely helpful. I have a friend who left the church several years ago, and actually first read Dale's books a few years after leaving and becoming established in a Christian church. Even then, she said, the books helped her understand details and make connnections she had not really seen before. If you're interested, they're available at www.LifeAssuranceMinistries.org. As Richad said above, Greg Taylor's book is also really helpful. It's an easy read, and it contains a more comprehensive study than does his online letter. It's also available from the website I mentioned.
Keep reading the Bible; Galatians is a must--I'd like to suggest that you read it every day for a month. It's only six chapters, but it's profound and speaks directly to our issues as people with Adventism in our histories.
You will have days when you feel like you're not sure WHAT you should be doing, and guilt and fear will haunt you. Remember to pray and go to God's word. Fear is not from Jesus. He will guard your heart and mind.
And, as Dd said, we will support you and pray for you.
Colleen
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Tdf
Registered user
Username: Tdf
Post Number: 52
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 09, 2005 - 11:10 am: | |
Karen,
It is amazing for me to read over and over again stories that sound just like mine. I can relate to so much of what you've written. My wife and I are only a few months into the process of leaving (although, like you, we've been searching for answers for quite some time).
When I first started posting on FAF, I still had a firm belief in some of the distinctive SDA doctrines. I asked specific questions and, thankfully, most folks on this site were pretty patient and compassionate. I recently went back and read some of my early posts and it showed me how much has changed in my life in such a short time.
Karen, the process that you are walking through is very confusing and frightening. However, in God's timing, you will find peace. As you process and as you study, don't lose sight of the fact that Jesus is the reason for your study. God loves you tremendously. He has been wooing you throughout your life. He longs to embrace you and fill you with His love. He will not leave you alone during this critical time in your life.
My sole prayer for you, for me, for all of us, is that we find Him and Him alone!
Praise God for your journey,
tdf |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 1166
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 09, 2005 - 5:35 pm: | |
Karen,
You mentioned AA and I have to tell you that it was my 12 step program that taught me all about how God loves and cares for me. I like to say it cleared the cobwebs of adventism out of my brain. I have been in a 12 step program for 20 years now. It helped me see the dysfunction in the SDA church before I found out about EGW. So a BIG CYBER HUG TO YOU FROM ME.
My program, I am seeing now, made my not rejoining the SDA church so much easier.
God is awesome in how He brings people out of adventism.
Diana |
Thomas1
Registered user
Username: Thomas1
Post Number: 168
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 09, 2005 - 6:22 pm: | |
Hi Karen
There is one place where you will always find unconditional love. At the cross. Put away the red books and the legalism and turn only to the precious gospel of Jesus. You will find love and acceptance like you have never known in your life. Jesus loves you. Think of this, He died that most horrible death, just for YOU.
I hope you will truly enjoy this Easter season. Maybe for the first time in your life. Talk to Him and tell Him that you now know that His gift was for even you. Thank Him. Then, hold on to Him and never let anyone, or any thing ever take your grip from him.
He really does love you.
So do I
<><
In His grip.
Thomas |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 1169
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 09, 2005 - 7:28 pm: | |
Karen,
Since giving up EGW I have been studying the Bible with a concordance and 3 different versions of the Bible. They all point to Jesus and what he did for us. Jesus is the only one who loves unconditionally. As Thomas said, hold on to Him and never let anyone, or any thing ever take your grip from him.
I am glad you are here.
What an awesome God we have that He brings us together like this.
Diana |
Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 1657
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 09, 2005 - 7:36 pm: | |
Diana and Karen, At the local SDA church they have a weekly AA meeting. The way I understand it is that although anyone is welcome to come to that meeting it mostly is current SDA's. SDA's who were into bigtime drinking and then became SDA and hence didn't want to forgo their AA meetings. I guess that is somewhat unusual for a SDA church to do. Karen, It is good to hear your story. I certanily can understand how come after reading and rereading those EGW books you would feel nogood. It's way better to stick with reading the Bible. Then you can know that you ARE saved, current tense, not future or past but current |
4drian
Registered user
Username: 4drian
Post Number: 56
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, March 26, 2005 - 8:01 pm: | |
Karen,
I just finished reading The Sabbath and the Lord's Day by H. M. Riggle. It's an awesome book and if I had to choose only one book to recomend, this is the book I would recomend to any SDA or former SDA. Since you liked Greg Taylor's story, you should also know that it is available in book form. It called "Discovering the New Covenant." I sent one of each of those, plus a couple of other books, to my mom. (Now I have to wait and see how she takes it).
-Adrian |
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