| Author |
Message |
Esther
Registered user
Username: Esther
Post Number: 159
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 08, 2005 - 5:28 am: |     |
oops, my I /i{think} should have turned out like this: I think |
Pw
Registered user
Username: Pw
Post Number: 335
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 08, 2005 - 7:08 am: | |
When I was leaving the SDA, I decided to go to a Presbyterian church. Well, the SDA pastor had a field day with that idea because he was telling me how they believe in predestination and that I would be following a false teaching. Boy, talk about calling the kettle black. |
Riverfonz
Registered user
Username: Riverfonz
Post Number: 28
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 08, 2005 - 9:41 pm: | |
For those interested in Reformed theology, the blogosphere has many great sites. If you go to www.hughhewitt.com,and scroll down on the left column to the God Blogs, you will see a link to Between two worlds which is great,and there are many other links at that site. Also very good is www.internetmonk.com with a link to the Boars Head Tavern,which is a discussion forum. Also www.whitehorseinn.org is another great site. For those in the SoCal listening area of KKLA 99.5 FM, on Sunday night at 9 PM is the radio version of the White Horse Inn hosted by Mike Horton, and it is informative and entertaining. Stan |
Riverfonz
Registered user
Username: Riverfonz
Post Number: 30
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 09, 2005 - 2:12 pm: | |
One other point on the above post. Michael Horton, who hosts the White horse Inn, also has a great book, called "Putting Amazing Back Into Grace", showing the liberating truth that God chose us instead of us choosing Him. Stan |
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 433
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 2:01 pm: | |
I love listening to Steve Brown's radio program, Key Life Network. I think every SDA should be required to listen to his program until they "get it"! They need a good dose of his Calvinism--teachings about the sovereignty of God and GRACE. 
Jeremy
(Message edited by jeremy on March 11, 2005) |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 1574
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 2:32 pm: | |
God's sovereignty has become such a comfort to me. I can't imagine how I lived without understanding it--well, actually I do know. I was chronically anxious.
Praise God He is God!
Colleen
(Message edited by colleentinker on March 11, 2005) |
Greg
Registered user
Username: Greg
Post Number: 58
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 8:36 pm: | |
Jeremy, Thanks for pointing me to Steve Brown's radio program. I just listened to him for the first time. The title of the program I listened to is great: "Jesus didn't die to make you nice." Brown's main point was that Christians should not be timid. He quoted a pastor who claimed to be speaking for God at a religious meeting: "If you Christians ever get over your fear, you're going to be dangerous!" Amen!
He had me rolling after he said, referring to the family of Christianity: "You know, we have some whackos in our family!"
Thanks again for pointing this site out, I'll be back again!
Greg |
Riverfonz
Registered user
Username: Riverfonz
Post Number: 47
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 1:27 pm: | |
Yes, I agree about Steve Brown, also. While on vacation, I am re-reading "Knowing God", by J.I. Packer, which is a well known classic, but it treats the Majesty and Sovereignty of God in such a readable fashion. Stan |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 1602
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 4:50 pm: | |
I love that Packer book, Stan! I read it about a year and a half ago, and I found it truly compelling and insightful. It was one of those "watershed" books for me. I kept realizing how differently I would have understood it if I had been an Adventist reading it.
Colleen
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Riverfonz
Registered user
Username: Riverfonz
Post Number: 51
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - 12:58 pm: | |
Colleen, I agree with you on Packer. But, shifting to the opposite of good reading material, I happened to catch up on the last 2 issues of Adventist Today, which I think you used to work for. They have reviewed the contribution of Jack Provonsha to Adventist thought. What a tortured mess! They talked about how his entire life he tried to reconcile SDA theology to liberal thought. All the theologians that had been mentioned that influenced his thought were very liberal. Provonsha also denied the substitutionary atonement, and in this article was quoted as saying that blood atonement was a cosmic outrage. Also, in the most recent issue, they reviewed a new book by Dan Smith, senior pastor of La Sierra College church, called "Lord, I have a Question?", in which he totally waters down any meaning of Salvation at all. He says, that all you have to do to be saved is "want to go to heaven" and even if you choose not to go, there is no suffering--just death! And Pacific Press Publishing is putting out this kind of drivel! Think of the influence he has on the young people. But this book is the antithesis of J.I. Packer. Stan |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 1609
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - 3:51 pm: | |
Yes, I've been gradually reading through the last Adventist Today also. I just feel such outrage and horror when I read the "scholar's" musings about the atonement of Jesus' blood being "unnecessary".
I remember hearing Dan Smith on the radio during the early summer saying he and four or five other SDA pastors watched The Passion and discussed it afterward. They all agreed that what Jesus suffered was NOT the wrath of God. (It was just human inhumanity. Adventists hold tenaciously to the idea that God is love and forgiveness but not wrath. They simply do not believe in a sovereign, all-powerful God. They make him in their own "enlightened" image.)
Colleen |
Freeatlast
Registered user
Username: Freeatlast
Post Number: 307
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - 4:50 pm: | |
Ironically, Scripture plainly shows that it is exactly that - God's wrath against sin - that Jesus' substitutionary death saves us from!
Without Jesus' blood, God's wrath would be poured out on US! |
Chris
Registered user
Username: Chris
Post Number: 723
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - 5:53 pm: | |
I remember when "The Passion" came out, our local paper quoted some liberal clergyman saying he didn't like the movie because "Many of us don't believe Jesus' death was a blood sacrifice". I was a bit taken aback by this statement. Bible seems pretty clear on this. All the imagery of the Old testament points to this and the NT spells it out quite clearly. I wonder how do liberal theologians exegete Hebrews chapter 9 which makes it so clear that the old covenant was inagurated with the blood of animals while the new covenant is instituted by the blood of Christ and that the shedding of blood was necessary for the forgiveness of sins. Do they just dismiss this entire chapter?
Chris |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 1614
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - 8:44 pm: | |
I don't know, Chris--but I know that liberal theology doesn't hold the Bible to be inerrant. When it's not inerrant, you can rationalize just about anything. You know--Paul was culturally biased, and we can't take him literally today...
Sigh.
Colleen |
Riverfonz
Registered user
Username: Riverfonz
Post Number: 53
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, March 17, 2005 - 1:44 pm: | |
You have all made excellent points above. This topic of liberal theology is one of my biggest areas of concern, for my family and friends who are still SDA. But a whole generation of medical school grads learned under Provonsha and Graham Maxwell,(and Greg, I dont know what your experience was), and when I sat thru all those classes, I never once heard anything about the traditional Christian gospel. I didn't even know what he was talking about most the time. Dan Smith is another one of those seductive speakers who can sound so smooth, but when you see what he is teaching, you know he is one who Jesus warned about--He will try to steal the sheep, but in the case of Dan Smith, it is the lambs(college kids) he is trying to steal. |
Riverfonz
Registered user
Username: Riverfonz
Post Number: 54
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, March 17, 2005 - 1:55 pm: | |
And while I'm on this anti-liberal rampage--Yes, I am very passionate about this topic--My Dad and I were visiting the Tierrasanta San Diego SDA church one day listening to Pastor Gary McCary preach this inspiring sermon saying that the Bible may not be that reliable. He actually said, (and I have it on tape) that it is highly likely that Daniel did not write the book of Daniel. That was 10 years ago, and he is still pastoring. I wrote him a long letter, and he wrote back to me saying that he doesnt believe a lot of the basic doctrines. Yet Desmond Ford who is so orthodox on everything except 1844, and he gets canned, while these other wolves keep spreading their liberal poison. A lot of people gave up their belief in scripture when EGW was proven to be a fraud. But, now they are creating a God in their own image. Stan |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 1620
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, March 17, 2005 - 8:02 pm: | |
So true, Stan.
Colleen |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 1219
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, March 17, 2005 - 8:46 pm: | |
Stan & Colleen,
I am finding out so much about the SDA church now that I have left it. It is so sad that so many people are being deluded and being drawn into Satan's grasp. And they do not even know what is happening to them. And the GC does nothing about it!!!!!
All the more reason to pray for them at our specific prayer times when we can do it with one voice to God. Then we can pray every day for them. God is still in charge, I remind myself, or I would go nuts.
Diana |
