Post Number: 10
|Posted on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 4:28 pm: || |
I believe that we have many "lurkers" on this site, and it might be interesting for some of us to briefly share how we became "formers."
Frankly, there was a time (not that long ago!) when leaving ADventism was the farthest thing from my mind. In fact, I was quite upset at those who did! (I'm a former SDA Bible teacher.)
But for me it all began when we attended a neighborhood Bible study group and did an inductive (verse-by-verse) study of Galatians. That rocked the boat! I remember thinking: "This just can't be true."
Then someone suggested I log on to FormerAdventist.com and there I read story after story. I literally spent one summer studying Greg Taylor's Scripture-based testimony. And I've been studying ever since.
I feel very humbled that the Holy Spirit led me on this journey. Leaving Adventism was the hardest thing I've ever done--and also the easiest thing I've ever done. By God's grace I've lost many of the fears I used to have. And also, for the first time, I feel saved!
Post Number: 183
|Posted on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 8:54 am: || |
I was never in SDA, but I do know that from personal experience, when a person seeks heavily the Lord, and runs after Him, reading His Word, to find out what He has for my life in particular, the path He leads us, me in, can very well be a different direction than what we thought it would be, what our parents taught us it would be, and where we thought it should go. I had to be willing to leave what was safe, to follow the voice of the Lord. And when I did, my relationship deepened with Him. It was no longer about what I thought was best or right. He said my sheep know my voice. He gave me my life to live and what else could I do but trust Jesus to know better than I or my teachers or my family, God's plan? No one can live my life for me and I am so in trouble if I ignore His Holy Spirit guidance if I think already have all the answers for what I am supposed to do or the place I am supposed to be. My place now is whereever He leads me. I follow His path. I simply cannot trust myself. What a sin to trust myself over Him. Proverbs 3:5-7.
Post Number: 45
|Posted on Monday, February 21, 2005 - 6:07 am: || |
Thanks for your question. You'll find that folks who have left Adventism and who post on FAF live throughout the country and have quite varied backgrounds. Yet, the experiences we've shared are remarkably similar. You mentioned that your study of Galatians sparked the beginning of your journey. My experience began when my brother-in-law visited this web site and told me that he was confused by what he had read. I logged onto formeradventist.com convinced that I was going to prove those former Adventists wrong. As I began reading Galatians, Hebrews, Romans and Colossians, my own belief system was rocked to its core. It became clear to me that salvation was by faith ALONE. My reading of the writings of EGW made it quite clear that the SDA church as an organization teaches salvation by works. I could not reconcile the Adventist view with Scripture. That led my wife and me to make some difficult decisions. However, for the first time in our lives, we are filled with the presence of God in our lives and we have assurance of His salvation, which is a free gift. We are still on our journey out of Adventism as we are slowly sharing the news of our decisions with our family and friends. However, we rest assured that God has already given us more in the last year of our lives than we could ever lose by leaving the SDA church!
Post Number: 269
|Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 5:18 pm: || |
My mind was first opened up to alternate ideas when I read a book called "The Gospel Solution," (don't remember the author.) It started nagging questions and doubts about some of the things I'd been taught as an SDA.
However, it was when my brother-in-law, who had recently left the church (along with my sister) sent me the book "The White Lie." I cannot tell you how SCARY it was to open that book. Did any of you experience that? I was terrified. I kept it next to my bed, and every now and then would flip through it, ignoring it for weeks, then opening it again, afraid to really "consume" it.
My initial intentions, however, were to prove it wrong.....I just knew it would be a bunch lies and obviously incorrect information. Ha! What a surprise.
Fortunately my non-SDA husband was there all along, and what a wonderful man he is. He just listened as I shared what I was reading, helped me not to be afraid (he has always pointed out to me that fear is not of the Lord....something he's had many opportunities to point out!)
Eventually I accepted that EGW is a fraud! From there everything else came apart quickly.
Post Number: 304
|Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 6:56 pm: || |
Well, I was studying, for the first time in my life, actually to prove to the "Sunday keeping" neighbors that they were wrong and when the bible didn't back me up--especially Galatians, I decided to ask God to show me His will.
Ask and you shall receive!
Post Number: 1460
|Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 6:59 pm: || |
TDF, I just read your post above. How moving! It's amazing how the Bible clearly states truth, and when we want to know what is real the Holy Spirit makes it unavoidable that we find it.
Carol, I had to smile at your comment that your non-SDA husband was "there all along," repeatedly having opportunities to point out that fear is not of the Lord!!
It's true--when we see Ellen is a fraud, everything else comes apart quickly.
Post Number: 1461
|Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 7:01 pm: || |
Sorry, Sabra--we were posting at the same time. How funny--ask and you shall receive!
Post Number: 3
|Posted on Friday, March 04, 2005 - 1:20 pm: || |
Carol 2 you wrote: "However, it was when my brother-in-law, who had recently left the church (along with my sister) sent me the book "The White Lie." I cannot tell you how SCARY it was to open that book. Did any of you experience that? I was terrified."
I think that all of us who have left the cult know that FEAR that we first felt when we put it all on the alter of God to learn the truth when we left. For me it was reading Hebrews and seeing that there's no way EGW could be right after knowing that Jesus went to the Most Holy at his death, NOT in 1844! And I recall thanking God when I was an Adventist that I knew that Jesus was now in the "Most Holy Place" and therefore "only we adventists got our prayers into the Chairman of the Board!" How mislead we all were, and yes FEARFUL when we had to face the truth at last. It's been 25 years ago for me and it seems like it just happened!
What a blessing this forum is! We didn't have anything like this in 1980 so things were a little slow back then. With the advence of computers there are people on here who came to "show former adventists" how they were wrong, and instead changed their mind after being faced with the facts. If only we'd had something like this back in 1980 when Des Ford was shaking the earth!
Post Number: 4
|Posted on Tuesday, March 08, 2005 - 10:01 am: || |
Skip, never never was I taught that only SDAs have their prayers heard or answered!! I think the ideas and claims of what SDAs believe has evolved over the years since I first joined the SDA church.
I was also taught that God's people are in all denominations, and the "end time people" may not have many SDAs in it!
I'm new at this "non-SDA" thinking so bear with me.
Post Number: 411
|Posted on Tuesday, March 08, 2005 - 10:27 am: || |
Actually, Ellen did write that about prayers from Christians, Karen.
"I saw that since Jesus left the holy place of the heavenly sanctuary and entered within the second veil, the churches have been filling up with every unclean and hateful bird. I saw great iniquity and vileness in the churches; yet their members profess to be Christians. Their profession, their prayers, and their exhortations are an abomination in the sight of God. Said the angel, ëGod will not smell in their assemblies. Selfishness, fraud, and deceit are practiced by them without the reprovings of conscience. And over all these evil traits they throw the cloak of religion.í I was shown the pride of the nominal churches. God is not in their thoughts; their carnal minds dwell upon themselves; they decorate their poor mortal bodies, and then look upon themselves with satisfaction and pleasure. Jesus and the angels look upon them in anger. Said the angel, ëTheir sins and pride have reached unto heaven. Their portion is prepared. Justice and judgment have slumbered long, but will soon awake. Vengeance is Mine, I will repay, saith the Lord.í The fearful threatenings of the third angel are to be realized, and all the wicked are to drink of the wrath of God. An innumerable host of evil angels are spreading over the whole land and crowding the churches. These agents of Satan look upon the religious bodies with exultation, for the cloak of religion covers the greatest crime and iniquity." (Early Writings of Ellen G. White, page 274.)
"Many look with horror at the course of the Jews in rejecting and crucifying Christ; and as they read the history of His shameful abuse, they think they love Him, and would not have denied Him as did Peter, or crucified Him as did the Jews. But God who reads the hearts of all, has brought to the test that love for Jesus which they professed to feel. All heaven watched with the deepest interest the reception of the first angel's message. But many who professed to love Jesus, and who shed tears as they read the story of the cross, derided the good news of His coming. Instead of receiving the message with gladness, they declared it to be a delusion. They hated those who loved His appearing and shut them out of the churches. Those who rejected the first message could not be benefited by the second; neither were they benefited by the midnight cry, which was to prepare them to enter with Jesus by faith into the most holy place of the heavenly sanctuary. And by rejecting the two former messages, they have so darkened their understanding that they can see no light in the third angel's message, which shows the way into the most holy place. I saw that as the Jews crucified Jesus, so the nominal churches had crucified these messages, and therefore they have no knowledge of the way into the most holy, and they cannot be benefited by the intercession of Jesus there. Like the Jews, who offered their useless sacrifices, they offer up their useless prayers to the apartment which Jesus has left; and Satan, pleased with the deception, assumes a religious character, and leads the minds of these professed Christians to himself, working with his power, his signs and lying wonders, to fasten them in his snare. Some he deceives in one way, and some in another. He has different delusions prepared to affect different minds. Some look with horror upon one deception, while they readily receive another. Satan deceives some with Spiritualism. He also comes as an angel of light and spreads his influence over the land by means of false reformations. The churches are elated, and consider that God is working marvelously for them, when it is the work of another spirit. The excitement will die away and leave the world and the church in a worse condition than before.
I saw that God has honest children among the nominal Adventists and the fallen churches, and before the plagues shall be poured out, ministers and people will be called out from these churches and will gladly receive the truth. Satan knows this; and before the loud cry of the third angel is given, he raises an excitement in these religious bodies, that those who have rejected the truth may think that God is with them. He hopes to deceive the honest and lead them to think that God is still working for the churches. But the light will shine, and all who are honest will leave the fallen churches, and take their stand with the remnant." (Early Writings of Ellen G. White, page 260 paragraph 1-page 261 paragraph 1.)
"Then I saw that Jesus prayed for his enemies; but that should not cause us or lead us to pray for the wicked world, whom God had rejected -- when he prayed for his enemies, there was hope for them, and they could be benefitted and saved by his prayers, and also after he was a mediator in the outer apartment for the whole world; but now his spirit and sympathy were withdrawn from the world; and our sympathy must be with Jesus, and must be withdrawn from the ungodly.... I saw that the wicked could not be benefitted by our prayers now... Then I saw that scripture did not mean the wicked whom God had rejected that we must love, but he meant our neighbors in the household, and did not extend beyond the household; yet I saw that we should not do the wicked around us any injustice; -- But, our neighbors whom we were to love, were those who loved God and were serving him.
(Signed) E. G. White." (The Camden Vision, Camden, N. Y. June 29, 1851.)
"The greatest prejudice of the Jewish nation of priests and rulers was stirred up against Christ because the people preferred to listen to Jesus rather than to them. The very same feelings of prejudice will be manifest in the priests and rulers of this time. We can do nothing that would close up the way before us in this country like taking a position of superiority and putting before the people that we consider them heathen. In truth they are worse than heathen, but this we are not to tell them. The clergy consider themselves as teachers, highly religious, and their churches send out missionaries to the work of converting the savages, but to have the implication that a similar work must be done for them they would consider the worst kind of insult." (Manuscript Releases, Volume Seventeen, page 334, paragraph 1.)
"I turned to look at the company who were still bowed before the throne; they did not know that Jesus had left it. Satan appeared to be by the throne, trying to carry on the work of God. I saw them look up to the throne, and pray, 'Father, give us Thy Spirit.' Satan would then breathe upon them an unholy influence; in it there was light and much power, but no sweet love, joy, and peace. Satan's object was to keep them deceived and to draw back and deceive God's children." (Early Writings of Ellen G. White, page 56, paragraph 1.)
She also wrote this:
"...I saw that the holy Sabbath is, and will be, the separating wall between the true Israel of God and unbelievers..." (Early Writings of Ellen G. White, page 33, paragraph 1.)
So we are getting all of these things that we are saying directly from the writings of Ellen G. White.
(Message edited by jeremy on March 08, 2005)
Post Number: 505
|Posted on Tuesday, March 08, 2005 - 10:53 am: || |
I was told just today that Ellen teaches only Christ and Him crucified. Read this post below from an SDA:
Regarding SDA agenda, here's a topic I started earlier. It expresses my "agenda."
This post is being wrtten from the perspective of an individual SDA. I will be quoting heavily from Ellen G. White, not from the standpoint of authority but as a representative SDA author.
In ìThe Desire of Agesî we read the following: ìBut even as a sinner, man was in a different position from that of Satan. Lucifer in heaven had sinned in the light of God's glory. To him as to no other created being was given a revelation of God's love. Understanding the character of God, knowing His goodness, Satan chose to follow his own selfish, independent will. This choice was final. There was no more that God could do to save him. But man was deceived; his mind was darkened by Satan's sophistry. The height and depth of the love of God he did not know. For him there was hope in a knowledge of God's love. By beholding His character he might be drawn back to God.î (DA 762)
Iíd like to focus on the two last points: There is hope for man in a knowledge of Godís love. By beholding Godís character, he may be drawn back to God. This is was Seventh-day Adventism is all about: Promoting a knowledge of Godís love and proclaiming His character. Every SDA doctrine is centered around these goals.
What is God really like? The answer to this question is centered in Jesus Christ, who so clearly represented Godís character that He could say, ìIf youíve seen me, youíve seen the Father.î (John 14:9) From Christís life, without question the clearest manifestation of Godís character is the cross.
ìHanging upon the cross Christ was the gospel. . . . This is our message, our argument, our doctrine, our warning to the impenitent, our encouragement for the sorrowing, the hope for every believer . If we can awaken an interest in men's minds that will cause them to fix their eyes on Christ, we may step aside, and ask them only to continue to fix their eyes upon the Lamb of God.î (Mn 49, 1898)
Since the cross reveals the character of God, and since the job of SDAism to promote Godís love, to proclaim His character, it stands to reason that we should view the cross as our message and our doctrine.
ìChrist crucified,--talk it, pray it, sing it, and it will break and win hearts. This is the power and wisdom of God to gather souls for Christ. Formal, set phrases, the presentation of merely argumentative subjects, is productive of little good.î (6T 67)
ìThe cross of Calvary challenges, and will finally vanquish every earthly and hellish power. In the cross all influence centers, and from it all influence goes forth. It is the great center of attraction; for on it Christ gave up His life for the human race.î (6BC 1113)
The statement that all influence goes forth from the cross is an interesting one. SDAís believe compelling force is not to be found in Godís government which is moral in nature and whose governing principles are love and truth.
ìIf there is anything in our world that should inspire enthusiasm, it is the cross of Calvary. (1 John 3:1, John 3:16 quoted). Christ is to be accepted, believed on, and exalted. This is to be the theme of conversation--the preciousness of Christ.î (CT 338)
What is SDAism all about? It is about learning the truth about God and sharing that truth with the world. ìThose who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.î (COL 415)
Post Number: 506
|Posted on Tuesday, March 08, 2005 - 10:55 am: || |
Let me add, I just posted Jeremy's Ellen quotes for this guy...I can't believe anyone would still promote and believe in her after reading that blasphemy!
Satan standing at the throne of Jesus, like he even has access there? Sounds like sympathy for the devil to me...remember the Rolling Stones song?
Post Number: 412
|Posted on Tuesday, March 08, 2005 - 11:15 am: || |
Speaking of sympathy for the devil:
"After Satan was shut out of heaven, with those who fell with him, he realized that he had lost all the purity and glory of heaven forever. Then he repented and wished to be reinstated again in heaven. He was willing to take his proper place, or any place that might be assigned him. But no, heaven must not be placed in jeopardy All heaven might be marred should he be taken back; for sin originated with him, and the seeds of rebellion were within him. Satan had obtained followers, those who sympathized with him in his rebellion. He and his followers repented, wept and implored to be taken back into the favor of God. But no, their sin, their hate, their envy and jealousy, had been so great that God could not blot it out. It must remain to receive its final punishment." (Spiritual Gifts, Volume 1, page 18, paragraph 1.)
Post Number: 24
|Posted on Tuesday, March 08, 2005 - 11:30 am: || |
Jeremy, Those are great quotes. You must be an EGW walking encyclopedia. Your insights are amazing. Stan
Post Number: 413
|Posted on Tuesday, March 08, 2005 - 12:06 pm: || |
Stan, you're the second person on here that has said that I have an encyclopedic knowledge of EGW. I don't know whether that is good or bad...hehe.
I actually got that last quote from Jeffry Helsius's article (part 2) in Proclamation! magazine (July/August 2004) and then copied it from the EGW cd-rom (although I had already known about it, from truthorfables.com I think). The EGW cd-rom has come in handy--the White Estate doesn't know what they did to themselves selling those cd-roms! There is so much stuff on it that just proves EGW to be a false prophet (like almost everything she wrote!) But if you put in the right phrases you can just come up with lists of contradictions, blasphemies, etc.
Oh, by the way, I got a lot of those quotes from a file I put together called, Ellen G. White's "Inspired" Bigotry, Racism, and Discrimination!. You can take a look at it at that link.
(Message edited by jeremy on March 08, 2005)
Post Number: 703
|Posted on Tuesday, March 08, 2005 - 12:28 pm: || |
Jeremy, when I said it, I meant it as a compliment.
To be honest, I've never really understood the cultural-Adventist mindset of ingnoring EGW and saying she doesn't matter. When I was a SDA I respected the SDAs the most who had the most knowledge of EGW and SDA theology and who tried to live it. (At least they were trying to go all the way with what they believed). I had relatviely little respect for what I consisered to be half-way Adventists.
As a former I value those individuals who have a wealth of knowledge regarding SDA theology and who can employ that wealth in the cause of bringing people to the true Gosepl message. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with this group and others.
Post Number: 1547
|Posted on Tuesday, March 08, 2005 - 12:28 pm: || |
If there's any Adventist catch phrase I'm more tired of than "safe to save" or "apostate Protestants" or "we keep the Sabbath as a sign of loyalty to God," it's "the character of God".
Please! The quote in Pheeki's post above is just so much confusion and side-stepping. "But man was deceived; his mind was darkened by Satan's sophistry. The height and depth of the love of God he did not know. For him there was hope in a knowledge of God's love. By beholding His character he might be drawn back to God.î (DA 762
God's CHARACTER is not what Jesus was about. He, of course, embodied God's character--but his mission was not to show us God's character. The invisible qualities of GodóHis "eternal power and divine nature" have been clearly seen since the creation of the world, "so that men are without excuse" (Romans 1:19-20).
No, Jesus was not here to reveal God's CHARACTER. That was already known; it was a given since creation.
Jesus came to DIE. He came to be the eternal sacrifice for sin, to shed his blood of the eternal covenant and open a new and living way to the Father. The problem with humanity was not that it had lost sight of God's character. It was that humanity was inherently doomed to eternal destruction.
It's true that mankind had supressed the available knowledge of God's power and divine nature by its own wickedness, and as Jesus came as the sacrificial Lamb of God, he also reveale dthe Father to a benighted world. But it is not by focussing on God's character that we are drawn to Him.
My goodness, natural humanity is not even able to focus on God's character. Jesus said that when He was lifted up from the earth, He would draw all men to Himself (John 12:32). It is only when we look at Jesus' sacrifice and realize He bore our sins and bled his blood into eternity for us that we can begin to humble ourselves before the Father.
We must be awakended by the Holy Spirit even to be able to gaze at the cross. (There is a reason so much of the popoulation was repelled by Mel Gibson's "The Passion". Those not open to truth cannot tolerate the physical nature of the suffering of Jesus and the forensic atonement.)
The character of God is not what draws us to salvation. Jesus shed blood is the way to salvation.
These kinds of subtle but heretical statements of Ellen just continue to prove to me that her "visions" were not God-originated. The Bible tells a much different story about salvation and Jesus' mission than she did.
Praise the Father for Jesus, and praise Him for sending us His Spirit to teach us and lead us continually into truth!
Post Number: 19
|Posted on Tuesday, March 08, 2005 - 12:50 pm: || |
I have to share here information about EGW that sealed the deal for me regarding her inspiration!
Awhile back I was reading an article in Newsweek about hypergraphia--a brain disorder where people write and write. Because I teach writing, I was interested in the subject.
(According to a similar article in National Geographic--this month--the disorder "may also lead to hyper-religious feelings and a sense that even the most trivial events are filled with . . . cosmic importance" p. 28).
So, I got on line and typed in "hypergraphia," and LO found a huge document on Ellen White! If you're interested, check this out:
Don't forget to read the subchapters about "Hypermoralism" and "Repetition." Those sections, IMO, explain so much about her letters and behavior.
Post Number: 10
|Posted on Tuesday, March 08, 2005 - 1:07 pm: || |
Chris, I agree. A good thing I can say about the self-suuporting schools where I grew up is at least they tried to follow Ellen White. I don't understand how one can be an Adventist and ignore her.
I had a head elder tell me that he didn't believe in all 27 beliefs but he wasn't asking to have his name removed from the books, so why should my husband and I?
Post Number: 704
|Posted on Tuesday, March 08, 2005 - 1:22 pm: || |
Melinda, I received the same song and dance from our pastor when I left. I happen to know he even convinced one young man to rejoin using this same argument. It really upsets me! Why stay in a group that you KNOW teaches things that compromise the simple Gospel? Why would you encourage others to do so as well? I am convinced that Adventism has a dark hold on its adherrents. Praise God for showing us His Light and setting us free!