| Author | Message | ||
| Melinda Registered user Username: Melinda Post Number: 13 Registered: 2-2005 |
Each of my kids have a job every night, and last night it was my daughter G's job to take out the trash. When she stepped onto the porch she immediately began crying hysterically and was terribly afraid. She said the devil was standing by the trash cans. She insisted he was there. G has bipolar disorder. She also says there are skeletons downstairs. Now I wonder...is this just her disease, or is there a spiritual component as well? What do you think? | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 218 Registered: 7-2004 |
That would all depend on how old G is. How much exposure has she had to people talking about devils and such (people, movies, books...) I remember once when I was about 6 we went to a nearby reservoir for a church picnic. After dark there was a campfire and the usual ghost stories around the fire. When it came time to go home I wanted to go take just one more ride on the swings but I got disoriented on my way over there because it was so dark, then all of the sudden, looming out of the darkness were a pair of red eyes. RED EYES! I don't remember ever moving so fast in all my life. It was probably a small animal of some sort, like a raccoon, but I was convinced it was a devil who was going to get me because I had disobeyed and gone back to the swings. Belva | ||
| Tracey Registered user Username: Tracey Post Number: 265 Registered: 9-2004 |
LOL at Belva!! too funny! That'll teach you to enjoy swinging! Seriously, Poor thing. | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1694 Registered: 11-2002 |
How old is G? Does she take her medicine like she is supposed to? I know several people diagnosed bi-polar and each of them, tells me the medicine is very important. Does she have a doctor that is easilly accssable to you when these sorts of 'emergencies' come up? I hope you really supervise what she is exposed to with movies, internet, vodeo games, tv programs and even music. Cut out caffine. I have Tourette as does two of my children. The youngest also is paranoid schitzpherenic. He can get really spun. In my situtation it is extremely important to keep a very low activity level in my home. Nothing overly stimulatng. I'm sure there is a bi-polar organization that would have wonderful resorces and information available. If you are in or near an urban area there probably also is a bi-polar support group. I would recomment seeking out these groups. Ihave found even the Tourette Syndrome Associaion has a lot of information available for bi-polar because there often is overlap of the various disorders. I will like to really stress that she is not exposed to any talk about the devil, anything in discussion of satanic and don't even use the word, "evil" around her. Some of these external words and visualization and so on will trigger the symptoms surfacing. I hope I am being helpful. I will keep this concern in my prayers. One more thing-depending of her age and all the other things that are unique to her have you concidered placment in a psyharacytic facility where the progrm is developed for the individual child? Then there is constant supervision and the medication needs are very closely monatered and adjucted. Is she in a SDA class? Once the child is in a SDA class then it is not too much more trouble to get out-of-home placement in a thereputc setting. Of ourse, I want you to know that all these suggestons I am sharing with you turn into a fulltime job getting implimated. | ||
| Melinda Registered user Username: Melinda Post Number: 14 Registered: 2-2005 |
G is 10 y/o and we adopted her from Ukraine in July 2004. I do not know what she was exposed to before we adopted her. I do know that she is not exposed to any "junk" at our house. I am VERY picky about what they watch on tv etc. She is under the care of an excellent child psychiatrist, is receiving individual therapy, and is taking her daily meds under parental supervision. I guess my main concern is that I am thinking that this disorder sure seems to have a lot of spiritual implications. I hope I do not seem "off my rocker" but I can't help but think that the devil is having fun at G's expense. Am I making sense? Melinda | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1606 Registered: 12-2003  |
Melinda, you make sense to me. I obviously have no way of knowing exactly what's going on with your daughter, but I have seen enough "stuff" through my students, etc., over the years to know that evil does take advantage of broken places in our hearts and psyches. I know a young woman who suffered a seriously abusive childhood--to the point that her therapist said she was a "textbook case". She has had a lot of trouble with post traumatic stress disorder including dissociation and "hallucinations" of devils. She is a born again Christian, and God is helping her to heal. I guess, Melinda, my point in bringing up this girls' situation is to say two things: first, sometimes severe PTSD can mimic more organic psychological disorders. (For example, the girl I mentioned has been diagnosed in the past as bipolar, but her therapists now have her off her bipolar meds and realize she is not truly bipolar. Instead, they are treating her dissociation and PTSD and having much greater success.) Second, when we have brokenness in our emotions or minds, Satan can capitalize on our unhealed wounds and cause us greater suffering. I have only one conclusion that I deep coming to: in Jesus is healing, safety, light, and truth. He has the power to reach through the most horrific symptoms and bring peace to our hearts, even if our bodies are compromised. I will pray for you and your children, Melinda. What you are doing is amazing and difficult. Praise God for your love and faithfulness--and for His to you! Colleen | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 224 Registered: 7-2004 |
Not to meddle, but from what I've learned (I was married to a man with bi-polar disorder for 27 years) in most cases bi-polar does not manifest until after sexual maturity, late teens to early 20's. I also find it interesting that conditions we now refer to as mental illness or brain injury, Jesus addressed as possession. Each generation has its own way of handling these things. You are a brave lady. Love her as much as she will allow you to, don't discount things she says to you, but also keep a grain of salt handy. I had a brother with multiple-personality disorder and some of the things he did are very much like some of the things my husband has been known to do. Our understanding of mental problems is very shallow. Treat with medication and much prayer. Our love and support to you. Belva | ||
| Melinda Registered user Username: Melinda Post Number: 15 Registered: 2-2005 |
I just can't help but wonder if G saw an actual evil being. Biblically, it's possible, isn't it? We also adopted G's brother, S. We were visiting a non-denominational church one Sunday and as soon as we walked into the sanctuary S started having a meltdown. He was cursing the church and everything. It continued until they started singing this one song that said, "There is freedom in this house." Then all of a sudden he was fine. I know people in America don't always deal with spiritual warfare like this, and certainly SDA's don't talk about it much. I know I didn't ever think about it when I was SDA, and so all this is very new to me. Melinda | ||
| Praisegod Registered user Username: Praisegod Post Number: 264 Registered: 3-2004  |
It seems to me that all of you are on the right track. What I have found is that as SDA I had such a Western worldview that there really wasn't any room for true spiritual warfare. One of the fastest ways for that to change is to visit a third world country and minister far from civilization! (I was in Haiti last summer.) We've a friend who leads a youth group at a huge denominational church in this area. This is the elite, crËme de la crËme church for that particular denomination and rather formal. They certainly didn't train their youth about real demons. Yet Doug mentioned that once they returned from Africa and the kids started sharing what they had experienced that every sentence started, "You're not going to believe this butÖ." They lived a biblical worldview, similar to what it was like with Jesus and the disciples casting out actual demons. They experienced supernatural after supernatural event. We've nothing in the Bible to suggest that they had real demons in Bible times and we don't. Satan is just subtler in this country and very seldom shows himself in that way. With G coming from a foreign country, you have no real way of knowing the extent of demonic activity. As Colleen pointed out, Satan tends to use our brokenness to his advantage. For more and more people, that is through the mind or the emotions. And I believe if we're honest, most of us would admit that processing out of Adventism has created a certain woundedness, at least temporarily, in each of us. Since you've seen something suspiciously like spiritual warfare with S, I would suggest that you have a mixture of mental illness and demonic activity going on. While I don't want to see demons behind every bush, I also wouldn't discount that it's probably not simply neurologically based. Praise GodÖ | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1695 Registered: 11-2002 |
I just reread the posts. I did not imtend to suggest a SDA class. I ment to suggest a SED class. Sorry for not proofreading better at the time. The SED classes tend to be wonderful for the kids who need them. | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 222 Registered: 7-2004  |
I was wondering about that Susan, but figured I just didn't comprehend what you meant by it! It's more believable that you would not be recommending an SDA class. | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 226 Registered: 7-2004 |
I mentioned above that I have a brother with multi-personality disorder. He has been exorcised by one of the SDA ministers who was at our home church after he molested a small child there. I'm not proud of this situation, and after I learned of this incident I made sure that he never even met either of my children. The point I wish to make is that my sister was in attendance at that exorcism, and it was true spiritual warfare that was going on. She also indicated that she felt it was being handled by someone who may not have been equipped to deal with the situation. I have always felt that mental illness has a sort of other-worldly aspect to it. I'm not talking about a bout with depression, but the conditions with the long fancy names. My husband once told one of his doctors that he was trying to make lemonade out of the lemons he'd been dealt in his life. The doctor told him straight up that he'd never known anyone to make lemonade of bi-polar. We need to approach some things less scientifically, and more spiritually, I think. Historically the Catholic church has had more success with exorcisms that other faith groups because they actually address this side of spiritual warfare by training certain of their priests in-depth about these sorts of things. I would suggest that you contact your spiritual leader, whoever that may be, and find out how much that person knows about dealing with "the prince of the air." Belva | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1617 Registered: 12-2003 |
Belva, wise words. I've known someone who was "exorcised" by an Adventist couple. The afflicted person's condition worsened after the "exorcism." I'm quite convinced that some people who deal with the "dark side" do so because they are fascinated by it, not because they have the authority of Christ to free their "clients" from spiritual bondage. I agree that in many of the more complex, difficult-to-treat mental illnesses there is often a demonic component. That is not to say the person is possessed--just that the evil one takes advantage of a heart's and a mind's unhealed wounds and deceives and harrasses the victims until they believe they can never be free or normal. I really believe that while excellent counseling is essential in cases of mental and psychological illness, a person can never fully recover unless they meet Jesus and are discipled to learn to trust Him by surrendering their wounds and compulsions to Him. Jesus is faithful, and He can and does enter our memories and our mental "places" of compulsion, and He will not waste our experiences, but He will redeem them as we invite Him to protect and heal us. Colleen | ||
| Tealeaves Registered user Username: Tealeaves Post Number: 226 Registered: 5-2004 |
Melinda, I have met a lot of people who have mental illnesses, (in my nursing career), and i would agree that it seems the veil between the physical and spiritual worlds tend to be thinner for people who are afflicted with mental illness. I would certainly not discount the idea of a spiritual aspect to your daughters condition. Nor would I discount the idea of past experiences, or Post-traumatic Stress Disorder. From my studies and the adoption classes I have attended, PTSD is definitely a possibility for adopted children. (We are adopting from China, so I have been studying up on the subject.) I guess our job as parents is to Love, love Love our children, educate ourselves, Love our children, seek professional help when they need it, and most of all LOVE OUR CHILDREN! It sounds like that is exactly what you are doing, and she is in the best environment for her. Just a side point... I learned from a mental health nurse that when a patient with a mental disorder starts talking about devils and recessing into their own mental worlds, often there is something in the real world that is bothering them. Giving them support and comfort and understanding, saying something like "it must be scary to feel like that" without confirming or rejecting their scary experience is supposed to be the best way to go. Sometimes that is enough, and they feel reassured and comfortable. Sometimes, you can wait a bit, then ask some gentle questions about how life is going and have a little heart to heart, maybe draw out what real life issues might be bothering them. I am not a mental health expert, but I have friends who have worked in mental health nursing for years, and that is just some of what I have heard from them. I just think of what a wonderful God we have... He placed that wonderful child with you so that He could minister to her through you, love her and guide her. And He also had a plan for your benefit, to love you and grow you up through her. Having children is so hard and yet so fulfilling. Isn't it amazing how He weaves our lives together, bringing the exact right people, family, and experiences to us when we need them? I will be praying for you both, -tanya- | ||
| Bb Registered user Username: Bb Post Number: 77 Registered: 7-2004 |
Melinda, I just got back in town, but I read your post and I must tell you my daughter's experience. She used to attend an SDA school. There is where she heard the usual hocus pocus things that we grow up hearing....some girl apparently had messed around in the occult and was slammed against the bathroom lockers the previous year. Well, one night we needed to go back to the school for a book and it was getting dark and she seemed quiet. We went home and she went upstairs and was doing her nails. She thought she heard a voice say something to her. (She was about 14 yrs) She ran down the stairs screaming hysterically that the devil had spoken to her. I spent months praying with her, reading with her. She would follow me around the house so that she was never in a room by herself. She would sleep on the floor in our bedroom every night! I was getting really exasperated. I took her to a non-denom Christian counselor. I took her to a regular psychologist who did breathing exercises and behavioral techniques with her. I finally got her doctor to prescribe Paxil to her, and the symptoms immediately went away. She only took it for a few months and then decided she didn't want it any more and weaned off. Praise the Lord, it is gone! I feel like it was the power of suggestion from listening to those girls, and it was natural fears that she didn't know how to suppress. I don't like medication as a total crutch, but it seems like it is a miracle that it did what it did. I just wanted to share because it sounded like my experience somewhat. | ||
| Foreverscout Registered user Username: Foreverscout Post Number: 31 Registered: 3-2005 |
Melinda, how are your children now? You are not off your rocker to think that this may be what is happening. I am telling you this because in my very deepest darkest lowest depressions I had experiences with demons. In 35 of my 44 years it has happened to me at least a handful of times. You need to know that you all have the power through Jesus to throw them out. They can not abide the Holy Name of Jesus Christ and will flee when commanded to do so in his name. Prayer will avail much. Perfect Love Casteth out All fear. Foreverscout | ||
| Marcell Registered user Username: Marcell Post Number: 20 Registered: 4-2004 |
I work in the prayer ministry of a large church, and believe me, experiences with demons are real. It is not about seeing a demon behind every bush, but ackowledging that demons are present wherever people are present - kinda like bugs! You may not always see them, but they certainly exist and are hanging out to cause harm. Once you put on your armour (of God and the truth of His salvation and His word), demons are not really that scary. You have authority over them because of Jesus blood, you can be assured of that. Don't discount the possibility that what your daughter saw is in fact a demon trying some scare tactics (parlor tricks - weak when compared to the power of Jesus!!) We have a group of prayer warriors in our church from Africa - they KNOW ABOUT warfare and know the devil is real - they pray with such power and authority and with complete dependence. It is really moving. Find other believers to stand with you in prayer for your daughter and believe she will be protected. I agree that you will need to address any mental health issues as well - just don't ignore the 'obvious' - if she said she saw a demon, well, she probably did. Marcell | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 519 Registered: 1-2003 |
When I was in SDA grade school, there was a girl there whose sister was a practicing witch and she dabbled in it too. She threated to kill my dog by casting a spell and I didn't sleep for weeks until finally my mom went up to the school and told the principal what she was doing. This girl was allowed to terrorize us for years. They finally kicked her out over something...can't remember what...but only after years of her abusing us. And she wasn't the only one. There was a group of girls whose parents were conference or college employeed who could get away with anything and made my life a living hell. They would trick me into doing things by pretending to be my friends and then make fun of me in front of people...IOW: I kept wanting to be accepted by them and would do what they told me only to be double crossed and ridiculed. This is what went on at Keene SDA elementary. So flash forward 25 years and my friend sends her little girl there and what is happening? The same thing. A certain group of girls (influential parents) are tormenting her. She wants to leave there. So now I ask you...what kind of spirit is inhabiting that place? Why is it still going on 25 years later with a group of girls that never met me or my classmates? Interesting, isn't it. | ||
| Bob Registered user Username: Bob Post Number: 174 Registered: 7-2000  |
Pheeki, they are simply acting out their unconverted natures. That is how any of us would be apart from the rulership of the Holy Spirit in our lives. Religion may be able to pluck some of the "ornaments" off the tree, but only the Saviour can put an ax to the roots! Bob | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1747 Registered: 12-2003 |
Remember Jesus' parable in Luke 11:24-27 about the evil spirit that came out of a man, and finding nowhere to rest, decided to go back to his original host? It returns, finds "the house swept clean and put in order." Then the spirit takes seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and together they go back and inhabit the man. "And the final condition of that man is worse than the first." Before we are born again, our natural selves are spiritually dead and completely vulnerable to deceptions and evil. We can intellectually know we need to clean up our acts, and may even discipline oursleves to change many bad behaviors or give up many heretical beliefs. Unless we surrender our hearts to Jesus, though, giving up to Him our right to create our own identities, our reform will not be effective. Reform is not the same as regeneration. Regeneration requires admitting how depraved and subject to sin and evil we are, and inviting Him to take over and replace the sin in our lives. We have to give up to Jesus our presumed "Right" to have the last word about our lives and give it instead to Him. Again at the risk of being misunderstood, I'll say that I believe one reason we struggle so hard as we begin to leave Adventism (or any other cult or addiction) is that there is evil that, through the work of deception, blinded and enslaved us. We must be willing to surrender the spiritual claim of Adventism on us and allow the Holy Spirit to take His place where Adventism had been in our hearts. We still grieve, struggle, and mourn, but when we clearly see that we're exchanging something born in evil for Jesus Himself, everything changes. Bob is right; religion (intellectual assent to belief) can clean things up externally, but only the Savior (surrendering ourselves to Him at the deepest level of identity) can remove the hold of sin. Colleen | ||
| Tracey Registered user Username: Tracey Post Number: 363 Registered: 9-2004 |
Makes absolute sense to me, Colleen. I agree. Tracey |
