| Author | Message | ||
| Freeatlast Registered user Username: Freeatlast Post Number: 319 Registered: 5-2002 |
Do any of you know anyone who studied their way out of Seventh-day Adventism, and then returned to it later? | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1722 Registered: 11-2002 |
No. However I have known a lot of Formers who have no religious affiliation at all. But, of the few Formers I know who have embrased basic Christiity none have ever gone back to the SDA. I have known lapsed SDA's thouh who hve gone back to the SDA. It's like they just took a break from it for awhile. But, to your exact questio, I know of no former SDA who has gone mainstream Christian who then has gone back into Aventism. | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 68 Registered: 3-2005 |
There have been a few, BUT, I don't believe they were firmly grounded in the first place. Stan | ||
| Freeatlast Registered user Username: Freeatlast Post Number: 320 Registered: 5-2002 |
Clarification - I'm not talking about someone who began to question their SDA beliefs, or had one foot in/one foot out and then put both feet back in. I'm talking about someone who came ALL THE WAY OUT, then went ALL THE WAY BACK IN. All I need is one... | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 225 Registered: 7-2004  |
No, I don't know of anyone. And I can't imagine ever becoming a "former" former, either! I spent so many years mulling over in the back of my mind all the questions and cognitive dissonance in SDAism, and once the veil was removed, I knew it would impossible for me to ever be SDA. It was at that point I left. I would say once someone has crossed that line where they truly understand the gospel and why SDAism isn't the gospel--they can't go back. There are probably others who are at various stages of questioning, but haven't crossed that line to understanding yet; these could probably go back and forth. Besides, once a person sees that EGW was a false prophet, how could that person ever go back to believing in her again? | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 759 Registered: 7-2003  |
Yes, I do know someone personally who did just this. This individual was a one-time theology major, resigned over doctrinal issues, turned in a resignation letter, met with a couple of pastors to talk through it, went to a church board meeting to insist that they finally act on his request, then turned around and was re-baptized as a SDA several months later. I can tell you though that he was given a lot of song and dance about how you don't really need to believe any particular way to be SDA, how hard the whole thing must be on his family, how there were people willing to help him with school and career if he would just come back, and how he can do the most good inside, etc. etc. etc. He stated to friends as he was going back in that his beliefs hadn't changed one iota and he still didn't believe the SDA distinctives, but he just decided to be quiet about it. I find it difficult to understand, but I think when it came down to it, the pressure of trying to get out was just too much and he found it easier and safer to go back in and convince himself he could conform on the outside without conforming in thought. There was also a non-SDA Christian girl friend involved and I think as long as that relationship was there he was willing to step outside of Adventism, but when the relationship ended it was easier to go back to a comfortable environment. Sorry, Freeatlast if you were hoping no such sad case existed, but I'm afraid such cases have happened (at least one). Chris (Message edited by Chris on March 22, 2005) | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 471 Registered: 10-2004  |
My dad gave up Adventism and Ellen White at one point and then later rejoined the SDA cult and believed in Ellen again. But he tried to explain away a lot of EGW's stuff as "symbolic," etc. Then he gave it all up again when my whole family did. Jeremy (Message edited by jeremy on March 22, 2005) | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 69 Registered: 3-2005 |
In a way, this sort of happened to Smuts Van Rooyen. It appeared he had made a fairly clean break. Now he is pastoring, but I don't think he really believes in EGWw, and I know he doesn't accept historical adventism. There are a lot of liberal churches in SoCal, who allow pastors to come back in so they can get the financial benefits. Jeremy, Your story sounds interesting to me, is it published somewhere? Stan | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1649 Registered: 12-2003  |
Smuts, though, never really left the Sabbath, and I don't think he ever really called Ellen a false prophet. People can leave over doctrinal issues but still not see that the church has a false prophet or that it perpetrates lies. Even though they disagree with many (or most!) of the doctrines, they can rationalize that disagreement as long as they believe that Ellen played a significant role in the beginning, and as long as they believe there is merit in the Sabbath. I'm fairly convinced that if a person truly meets Jesus, discovers the gospel and living by the Spirit, recognizes the unbiblical and deceptive nature of Adventism and then leaves, s/he's likely not going to be able to go back. Those that go back, I suspect, live with a fair amount of rationalizing and stop short of making their behavior match their profession of faith. Your dad, Jeremy, sounds like an interesting and unusual case. Colleen | ||
| Velo1 Registered user Username: Velo1 Post Number: 4 Registered: 1-2005 |
My exposure to the doctrines of Seventh Day Adventism began after hearing a former SDA pastor give his testimony on the day of his re-baptism, and re-entry into the church. So even though I am not SDA, I do know of one former who then became a member. He had left the church in early 80ís because of questions he had. The man read Clifford Goldsteinís book "Graffiti in the Holy of Holies" and claimed to have all of his questions answered. He then went to the bookstore to buy all of Goldsteinís books they had. Clifford Goldstein actually introduced the man for him to give his testimony. After hearing his testimony I had some questions in my mind: ìWho is Clifford Goldstein?î ìWhat is his story?" My SDA friend did not know the answers so I made a note to do some research later in the week. In hindsight I may have also wondered what happened 25 years ago in SDA circles that would have caused the pastor to leave the church. That week I did a search on the internet for ìGoldsteinî AND ìGraffitiî. What came up was a page of what, at first glance, appeared to be his book. As I began reading I realized this was a "response" to Graffiti in the Holy of Holies written by Dale Ratzlaff. I then soon realized that the Goldsteinís book was written in "response" to Ratstaffís book "The Cultic Doctrineís of Seventh Day Adventism". As you can imagine, as one who cares a lot about my SDA friend, I became more than a little concerned about my search results and began reading more. My research led me to many articles written by former Seventh Day Adventists, Christian apologetics and other sites, as well as the official Seventh Day Adventist site (Adventist.org) for its Fundamental Beliefs and Official Statements. Additionally I read articles published in Adventist Publications such as ìAdventist Reviewî and ìMinistryî. In an earlier post, someone had asked me how I was ìshielded against the confusion of SDAismî. I guess Iíd have to say that because I was first exposed to many of the doctrine issues of SDA,(i.e reading CDSA, and Graffiti) rather then being led through the Bible in the historical-grammatical method of Bible study, it was easier for me to check, or verify what I was being taught, rather than allow myself to be spoon-fed the doctrine. | ||
| Esther Registered user Username: Esther Post Number: 184 Registered: 5-2004  |
This summer just months after we started studying we attended campmeeting in Wisconsin. Thankfully, we had already read Galatians, Hebrews, John, etc many times and had a good understanding in what God was showing us. It was very evident that Sabbath issues and Goldstein's book was being pushed around the Lake Union. But like you Velo, having already read Ratzlaff's "Cultic Doctrine" it was easy to see that Goldstein's book was just a response to it, and fell short in it's proof of Adventism. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1655 Registered: 12-2003 |
Goldstein's book was also sadly lacking in solid biblical support, and he created much of his "power" by using a heavily sarcastic tone whenever he referred to Ratzlaff or his scholarship. I read the book because I thought I needed to in order to understand what was being said to convince Adventists not to "buy" the revelations in Cultic Doctrine. The book was so poorly supported and was so negative in tone that I had trouble finishing it--but I did! I don't believe that anyone truly grounded in the Bible or desiring Biblical truth could buy Goldstein. The only way a person could accept his "Graffiti" arguments is if s/he had not actually studied the Bible himself and had, instead, learned the Adventist arguments. Goldstein is completely supporting traditional SDA proofs. A person would have to be retaining some belief in Adventism--or be ungrounded in Scriptural truth--to be persuaded by Goldstein. Colleen | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 477 Registered: 10-2004 |
Stan, a brief synopsis of it is posted in one of my first posts on this forum, awhile back. Jeremy | ||
| Cy Registered user Username: Cy Post Number: 14 Registered: 1-2005 |
I have only read the chapter of Goldstein's "Grafitti" book that is available on the Review's web site, but my impressions were that Goldstein was reduced to making ad hominem attacks on Ratzlaff instead of addressing the real issues. As I told my wife when she asked about Goldstein's book, I expected better. Cy | ||
| Denisegilmore Registered user Username: Denisegilmore Post Number: 226 Registered: 10-2000 |
Cy, I agree with your assessment on his writing. It seems to me from the little I read that the real issue was secondary to trying to somehow get in digs to Dale Ratzlaff. Good assessment. Sad too if you think about it because it taints any reader who is truly interested in the two opinions from actually seeing the different positions but instead ends up indocrinating the readers mind to 'first' think badly and thus wrongly of anything Dale Ratzlaff may have to offer in his studies. Blessings to your household, Denise | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 23 Registered: 10-2002 |
I ran across a webpage of someone who was trying to defend Adventism, and on his page there was a thank-you from a "former former", who even bragged that he'd been over to Dale Ratzlaff's house, and that now he'd "returned to the fold" or something like that. **shrug** |
