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Message |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 1668
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, March 24, 2005 - 10:27 am: |     |
Faith, if your friend asked, tell her. You really have to accept her question at face value--God will give you the words to say, and He turns these moments into opportunities to speak the truth for Him.
Just tell her the truth--tell her how you found Jesus, how you discovered the truth, etc. She may not respond, but we can assume that we are planting seeds.
Someone has done a study that revealed the average person hears the gospel 17 times before they actually receive it. I don't know how Adventists fit into this study, but I would assume that they may be even tougher "nuts to crack" because the already believe they have the truth.
I found that right after I left I had the best opportunities to tell my friends what I had found, what Jesus meant to me, and what I learned about the gospel. As time passed, people either became more interested (very few!), or they backed away.
Just ask Jesus to guide you, and He will give you the words to say. It's an exciting life to which He has called you!
Colleen |
Tisha
Registered user
Username: Tisha
Post Number: 16
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, March 24, 2005 - 11:07 am: | |
I've found the same thing since we left - people were at first interested in why, but then they either drifted away, or have remained friends despite our new beliefs.
We have one couple (SDA) that have remained very close to us. We were camping together and were sitting around the campfire one evening. The husband (J) asked about how I decided to leave the SDA Church. Previously we had talked about the joy I was finding in my new understanding of Salvation. I told him a little bit, and he asked me directly about EGW. I told him I had come to the conclusion that she was a false prophet. He asked me why and kept pressing until I gave him a lot of examples. We talked for about three hours because he just kept wanting more information. Our spouses just sat and listened quietly. When it was time to go back to our trailers, he was near tears as he said that I had just pulled the rug out from under him. I felt so bad, and yet I knew that he was searching. We prayed together. Later I told him how scared I had been when everything I knew seemed to be wrong. I apologized for hurting him, but he said he was the one that wanted the information. Several times since then he has joked about EGW being a false prophet. But he and his wife have joined a new SDA Church and are VERY active in it. They don't say much anymore about our differences. J was raised in a very "historic" SDA home, He knows EGW by heart. He has trouble with doing things he "knows" are wrong (eating unclean meat, drinking alcohol, gambling, shopping on the Sabbath, eating sugar and on and on) and then feeling guilty. I just wish he could find the real understanding of Christianity. His wife (L) converted to SDA about 15 years ago because of him. She seems to feel comfortable with it, but I know J is struggling. I think he just pushes it all to the back of his mind.
J has been on my mind continously for the last 2 weeks. I feel a real conviction that I need to talk to him some more about this. My problem is that I don't know where to begin. And I am also afraid to upsest his wife! They are such dear friends. They have witnessed our struggle with the SDA Church and our joy since leaving. They have supported us when few others would. I want so much for them to find the real truth.
Please pray for this couple and also for me as I search for the right time and way to approach him. |
Faith2
Registered user
Username: Faith2
Post Number: 14
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, March 24, 2005 - 11:34 am: | |
Tisha,
I will pray for J and his wife. Thank you for sharing.
Sometimes that I wish this was just a dream! There are times that I do not know what to do with myself. So much freedom almost seems like deception. I know that it isn't! Did you find it hard to make lasting relationships with non-adventist? This entire experience is teaching me to depend on Jesus. I feel that Adventist would much hear you say that you are dobting God rather than the SDA church! Sad!!! |
Tracey
Registered user
Username: Tracey
Post Number: 329
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, March 24, 2005 - 1:13 pm: | |
Faith,
what's your email addy?
Tracey |
Tisha
Registered user
Username: Tisha
Post Number: 17
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, March 24, 2005 - 2:14 pm: | |
Faith2,
The best thing we did was find a Church that we worship with. We asked to join their membership after about a year of regular attendance. I am getting to know so many new people. They are just wonderful and supportive. We found out that another couple there left the SDA Church about 12 years ago, so they have been especially helpful.
I also joined in a weekly small group study and am making some deeper friendships through that. It is amazing how close you get when you pray together each week - for each other and for others on our prayer list. It seems like I've know these people much longer than it really has been!
I had already lost most of my SDA "friends" when I started questioning and leaving the SDA Church. The few close friends we had are still with us, but because we are active in different churches it means our time together is less than it was before. Those are the ones I am praying for especially - that I can witness to them the JOY of true Christianity. Of course, all those still trapped in SDAism need our prayers also!
It's true that most of the SDA's I know think I have really turned my back on God! They just cannot imagine that I really am more connected to Him than ever! They just can't believe that I am REALLY HAPPY!!
So - find a Church to get involved with! It's great. It's not at all like the involvement with the SDA Church which was filled with so much posturing and judging! It really is nurturing to be around true Christians! |
Faith2
Registered user
Username: Faith2
Post Number: 15
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, March 24, 2005 - 2:50 pm: | |
Thanks Trish! I feel that my hubby and I have found a church, we are a little hessitant;not sure why. I think that I will take your advice. This church has a fabulous praise team that I would like to join. I really want to inform my family of my decision before someone sees me on tv and gives my family a call. What do you think? |
Faith2
Registered user
Username: Faith2
Post Number: 16
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, March 24, 2005 - 2:51 pm: | |
Tracey, I sent you an e-mail!
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Tisha
Registered user
Username: Tisha
Post Number: 18
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, March 24, 2005 - 3:45 pm: | |
Faith2 - I'm probably not the one to ask about telling your family. Mine was very supportive. I know others here have had different experiences and may be better able to advise you on that.
As for being hesitent to join a Church, I guess I would try to figure out just what your reservations are. Are they doctrinal or more social? Is it the style of worship? Since you mentioned the praise team you probably already feel OK about that. Maybe it's just bad memories from a former Church association. Anyway, if there are no doctrinal reservations and the other things are nothing major, maybe it's just feeling new to the group. Joining the praise team would help you get to know at least that smaller group of people. And PRAY, PRAY, PRAY! The Holy Spirit will guide you to make the right decision.
From what I have learned here, there are many different Churches represented, but we are all one big Family of God! |
Faith2
Registered user
Username: Faith2
Post Number: 17
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, March 24, 2005 - 4:35 pm: | |
Good points! I really feel it's the social aspect. This may seem really odd but the church is multicultural. I love this fact but I often wonder if I could have a close friendship/relationship with someone who isn't black.
I was raised in the Deep South and was taught and often times experienced that white people could not be trusted because of how they view black people. OKAY I SAID IT! That is my fear! I wonder if my husband and I will truly be accepted! We have felt nothing but love from the congregation so far!
My last job as a bible teacher in Ma. was a horrible experience. I was not accepted by the faculty and staff. I was not allowed into their world unless it was work related.
I know that I am inferior to no one! I know that I have to trust God!
The Adventist church is VERY segregated and I believed that it was necessary but now I know better. I hope that I did not offend anyone with my honesty. I love for every one.
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Tracey
Registered user
Username: Tracey
Post Number: 332
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, March 24, 2005 - 5:38 pm: | |
Did the teaching experience that was horrible..
Did they know you were SDA? It's no excuse to treat you badly but "regular" Christians freak out when they come in contact with Christian "sects" or know what's wrong with a religion.. Totally different reaction to how they would treat a muslim or a hindu, I might add. Something freaky about accepting Jesus but getting stuff wrong about Him that makes the "regs" standoff from you.
I actually was asked to leave my church for dating an SDA. The pastor clearly knew things I didn't but 1. it wasn't the pastor's decision about my personal life but was concerned about the message that I was sending. 2. If the pastor had explained some things instead of ultimatum's I would've listened. 3. None of it was done with love.
Oh well, I prayed about it.. Visited some churches. Found one that I liked, continued to visit it and was prayerful.. I joined after 4 months. There's no reason whatsoever to quickly join a church. YOu and your husband are a part of the body of Christ already. Seek God's leading and visit others as well then you can take that time to determine what you like and don't like and what you need and can live without in a church home. Just keep fellowshipping with the body is what is THE most important thing to do. |
Tisha
Registered user
Username: Tisha
Post Number: 19
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, March 24, 2005 - 5:55 pm: | |
Faith2 -
You are so brave to actually state your fears! I'm white and haven't really had to face those things as much. Our church is multicultural. In fact, at first I was very confused about which kids belonged to which parent and grandparents! It seemed that the little black children sat with white grandparents and vice versa so who went with who?! It turns out that they are all related in some way. It is such a fun group, very relational (if that's a word!). There seems to be no barriers, even between young and old, teens and children. We are diverse age-wise as well! We do talk about cultural differences, when something comes up that make us comment on it, but more in a way of sharing about who we are than trying to make a point. Mostly it just feels like one big family of God.
However, I lived for some time in the South, and while I didn't personally experience prejudice, I know it was there. Mostly each stayed to their own with a silent truce of some kind. That was 30 years ago!
But where I am now, it is much more diverse culturally - white american, african american, asian, hispanic, swedish, german, native american, samoan, fijian, middle eastern, russian, and who knows what else! We'd need a lot of segregation to keep all that apart! So we just mix it all up and try learn from each other. Of course, out in the world there are prejudices and clashes, it's not perfect. But as Christians we seem to find commonality.
As for close friendships - one of the friends I am getting to know is African American. She is a bit older than I am and has an adopted daughter that is half african american and half white who is a bit younger that I am. She is the first person I felt comfortable with! I just love her! She and her husband have been a great blessing to us in our journey out of SDAism. They were for a short time members of a SDA church, but figured it out and GOT OUT!
Anyway, it helps to voice our fears because then we just might find out that though true at one time, it may not be true now. It sounds like maybe the Church you've found is a good place to learn new ways of being! God will lead you to a good place!
Saying all this though, I haven't forgotten that you have valid reason to feel as you do. Bless you for saying it. May the Lord give me the grace to not ever add to those reasons. |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 1671
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, March 24, 2005 - 9:02 pm: | |
Faith, I'm glad you stated your fear openly. It's true that even in the church prejudice is often a fact, but I'm betting that you'll find it's much less of a problem than it ever was in ADventism. I'm learning that it really is true that in Christ there is no Jew or Greek--when we are born again by the Spirit, we have one Father, and we have more in common than we have with people who share our culture or even, sometimes, our blood.
For all its posturing regarding diversity, etc., the Adventist church really is segregated--not just in congregations, but even in their minds. The Holy Spirit really does break down barriers between people. That was, actually, the great significance of Pentecost when God poured out His Spirit, and the language barrier was broken. People who in the natural world have nothing in common have Jesus and reality and eternity in common when they are born again, and they resonate to each other's experiences with spiritual understanding.
So, pray continually, and ask God to guide you to the involvement He has designed for you at your church. You will find remarkable connections with people that will be far different from those in the Adventist church.
As Tisha said, when you pray with people and share the Lord, it feels as if you've known them for much longer than you actually have. He is what we have n common, and He is limitless.
Colleen |
Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 1739
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, March 24, 2005 - 11:24 pm: | |
O.K., here I go again being the one with a completely differnt percetive on this. Faith, didn't you say you went to Oakwood College? Isn't that somewhere in the south? Alabama maybe? Anyway, I am white. One of my best friends is SDA, she is black, she went to Oakwood college. She told me about how mean the white people can be down in the south. I've often had the fantasy of going there to live and sparking a change in the locals hearts but I guess I'm just ment to be here in Ca. However, I read and read on these discussion boards about the segregation within the SDA church but I have not observed it at all. Growing up my parents best friends were an SDA couple, they were black. They went to the same SDA church we did. Ths couples granddaughter was my best friend all my growing up and well into my 40's when she unexpectanly passed away from a bad reaction to the headache medicine she'd been perscribed. I dedicate an Easter lily at the church in her memory every Easter. The SDA church I went to as a kid and the SDA school I went to were very mixed. The SDA church my mother attends is very racially and culturally mixed. Several black couples, several Asian families, one Hawaiian family, lots of Mexicans and lots of whites, several black/ white and Asian/white mixed couples. I just have not seen segerated SDA churches. Except one. When I lived in Hawaii the local SDA church was 100% ethnic Hawaiian. Believe me, the one Saturay me and my kids went to that church (this was just last year) we were let know very well that our presence should have been at the SDA church the next town over. Apparently several years ago at this SDA church the various races/ethnicitis couldn't get along so the whites and Japanese switched to the SDA church in the next town. The Somonians built their own church and left that little local jungle SDA church to the Hawaiians. After the service me and my children were at the table waiting for potluck. Not one person came to be friendly to us. Finily one Somonian lady who refused to switch to the Somonian church because she lived within walking distance to the church came and said it was unusual to have visitors. Then a lady came and sat right across from me and my children, wagged her index finger at us and said, yes, these are her exact words, "It's not right to come to our church just for the food." It was really scary because those people beat people up and throw them off cliffs into the sea, etc. so I quickly tried to explain that we were from Ca. and had went to the SDA church in Ca. and were were honestly visitors and not there just for the food. I felt sad for the people at that church because almost all the adults are illeterate and it is a totally Joe Crews/EGW church. Needless to say, we never went back. Me and my older son went to say hello to the minister and he reused to shake hands with us. We said hello to him and extended our hands and he said hello but with a very unwelcoming tone and turned and walked away. It was a really uncomfortable experience. I pray that you and your husband find a church you are comforable in. Some other time I'll share with you the weird sermon at hat jungle SDA church. It was all about God will strike His true Christians dead if they partisipate in Holloween. It was so scary. It was how true Christians had better not give in to satan and leaave their homes on Holloween of God will strike them dead. It was way spun. Scary stuff. A sermon about God and Satan and their each wanting us to do/no do Holloween. It was scary. I will pray the the Good Lord leads you and your husband to the church that is just the right plce for you two to be. |
Faith2
Registered user
Username: Faith2
Post Number: 18
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Friday, March 25, 2005 - 5:58 am: | |
I would like to share my devotional with you all this morning... I truly believe that God is speaking...
Friday, March 25, 2005
by Os Hillman
..."Throw your net on the right side of the boat and you will find some." ~ John 21:6
A former client of mine was the marketing director of a large food brokerage company and told me a story about one of their client grocery stores located in the upper Midwest. It seems that the store could not understand why at a certain time every winter sales plummeted. They studied their product line and interviewed customers. They did everything possible to uncover the mystery. Finally, someone made a remarkable discovery that changed everything.
It seemed that whenever it was really cold outside, the manager raised the temperature in the store. When customers came into the store it was too warm for them, so they removed their coats and placed them in their shopping carts. This meant less room for food and resulted in reduced sales overall. They lowered the temperature of the store, and as a result, the sales climbed back to the levels they were accustomed to. Their adjustment resulted in restoring sales levels.
Jesus stood on the shoreline and watched Peter and a few of the disciples fish. Jesus yelled from the shoreline asking if they had caught anything. They had not. He then suggested they cast their line on the other side of the boat. Without knowing the person who was addressing them, they took His advice. They began catching so many fish they could not bring them in.
Adjusting our lives to God is the first thing that has to happen in order to begin experiencing Him in our daily lives. For some, it is simply following the advice of those above us. For others, it may require a major change in our job situation. Still, for others it could mean making changes in relationships. Whatever the case, you can be sure that until we adjust our lives to God we will not receive His full blessing. Ask Him today where you need to adjust to Him.
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Faith2
Registered user
Username: Faith2
Post Number: 19
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Friday, March 25, 2005 - 6:10 am: | |
Tracey, it was an Adventist school! :-) Also, the ultimatum was not fair.
Susan, are blessed to have been raised in an accepting world. Thank you for your insight.
Colleen, I am now looking forward to developing new friendships. My Granny taught me to show myself friendly first! You all are amazing! Thank you for your support!
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Seekr777
Registered user
Username: Seekr777
Post Number: 97
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 28, 2005 - 3:13 pm: | |
Susan_2, which island were you on and which town was that church in. I don't want to make a mistake and go where I'm not wanted. 
I attend a church which is also mixed in age and ethnic background. We are also mixed in income and social status.
Tuesday night is the night for our intercessory prayer groups and also our 12 step programs. We all meet together first for 30 min+. of joint worship and singing praises. I was amazed at how open and how humbly the 12 step people in the churh were about their addictions and not hiding them from others. I knew some of the 12 step people who were my friends but didn't know the struggle that some others were having. It has really brought many of us closer and more supportive of each other in both directions.
Richard
rtruitt@mac.com |
Faith2
Registered user
Username: Faith2
Post Number: 26
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 29, 2005 - 8:37 am: | |
I had been trying to tell my mother for the longest that I am no longer Adventist. She kept responding that she never placed her faith in Ellen.
Finally today she came out and asked me. When I told her that I was truly no longer Adventist, she became silent. I asked her if she needed to talk to me later she agreed.
Minutes later she called asking if I believed in the Sabbath, I told her no. She asked me if I believed that Sunday was the Sabbath and I told her no, I told her that I believe that the Sabbath was part of the old covenant and was abolished. She vocalized her disappointment and started ripping into me. I told her that I wanted her to respect my decision but I was not going to argue with her. She said okay and hung up.
I knew that this day was coming but I still feel really weird. Almost void of feelings. Unlike many of you, my decision is not open for discussion. I say this because I come from a really emotionally controlling family.
Interestingly enough, I was reunited with a college friend on yesterday only to find that she is no longer Adventist but 7th day Baptist. She and her family left because of Ellen as well.
Meeting with her helped to prepare me for today.
Please keep me in your prayers. |
Tracey
Registered user
Username: Tracey
Post Number: 343
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 29, 2005 - 9:22 am: | |
wow.'
You are so in our prayers.
How sad a parent can't rejoice that you continue to seek a relationship with the Lord.
Tracey |
Faith2
Registered user
Username: Faith2
Post Number: 27
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 29, 2005 - 10:46 am: | |
Tracey, where have you been?
When is a good time to call you... |
Bob
Registered user
Username: Bob
Post Number: 157
Registered: 7-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 29, 2005 - 8:40 pm: | |
Faith2, if your family has always been "emotionally controlling," then your mother's behavior was in character. No surprises.
That doesn't entirely take away the sting of rejection, but it should help you not to take it too personally. Her reaction is more about her than about you! |
Tracey
Registered user
Username: Tracey
Post Number: 344
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 29, 2005 - 9:21 pm: | |
Where've I been? Going nuts!
Classes started back this quarter and I graduate this qtr. too..
I also start a new job on MOnday.. So, been really just trying to get organized with all the new changes going in my life. I called you this afternoon and again tonight.
We'll catch up eventually
Was your hubby SDA, by the way??? |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 1697
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 29, 2005 - 11:52 pm: | |
Bob said it so well, Faith--your mother's reaction is more about herself than about you, if she has a history of being emotionally controlling.
I don't blame you for not letting it be a matter of discussion.
With prayers for you and your husband,
Colleen |
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