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Lori
Posted on Tuesday, April 11, 2000 - 1:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Maryann,

I was raised in the mainstream SDA church, in the deep south (La.)!

And, Richard, Jr.,-- I agree--, the once saved, always certain is 'superior' wording for that phrase, I hadn't heard it worded that way before!
jtree
Posted on Tuesday, April 11, 2000 - 6:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Maryann

I was being led astray in the mainsteam SDA church, in the deep Berrien Springs, Michingan.

But I remembered in my salvation, that I was not to obtain my righteousness by obersing the law.

And I am a meatatarian, and I didn't fit in with the UPPER CRUST. (Hey I love Asian veggies don't get me wrong).
Maryann
Posted on Tuesday, April 11, 2000 - 6:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Y'all,

It seems that most of you are mainstream SDA. Others that have e-mailed me have also come from mainstream SDAism. Looks like I'm the "Lone Ranger" so far as "Offshootism" is concerned.

Maryann
Jude the Obscure
Posted on Tuesday, April 11, 2000 - 11:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Greetings all,

Haven't had time to read all of this Discussion yet, but want to say this:

If Jesus [God] didn't want us to enter politics he would never have said, "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's." Also, the entire Sermon on the Mount is inextricably linked to political action. SADs have got it wrong. Withdrawing from involvement in the world is NOT being "the salt of the earth."

Just my two cents. More later.

Good night, everyone,

Jude
Cas
Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2000 - 10:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Withdrawing from the world seems to be what the SDA's have done from their very beginnings. I think so much of what Ellen White said was influenced by her delusion that the Lord's coming was imminent, or he would come by one of the dates they set.
I was raised mainstream SDA. My Father was not Adventist, which made me worry when I was younger that he would not go to heaven!
I was baptized when I was about 12, thanks to the nice little church lady that thought it was time. I am not sure how much of the gospel, if any, that I understood at that time.

Marriage was for me, at a very young age, and my 1st child at 17!!!
I came back to church in my 20's and studied Ellen White profusely, in fact much more than the Bible, sad to say. IMO when you are so immersed in Ellen White it becomes natural to try and work your way into being saved.
So flying through the years, got divorced, left the church, got remarried, and just about 4 years ago got rebaptized!!!! and reellenized!!! I went out and bought a lot of her books all over again!

With all the info. on the net now, criticizing Ellen White and the Church and old issues of Evangelica magazine, also Verdict magazine,books, etc. I started reading it all and after 3 years of study I have come to the conclusion that I have been decieved, as well as all Adventist's that think they are the remnant.

Now I don't attend any church and feel a bit dissolusioned at times, I know I am coming to a better understanding of the Lord than I have ever known. I have found grace that I did not know existed before.
This website has been a release that I really need, at least I know I am not the only one seeking truth!
Peace to all.
Jude the Obscure
Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2000 - 2:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cas and all,

Thanks for your testimony. I believe the Lord has been leading you. Sometimes he leads us, it seems, when we don't even know we're being led.

I, for example, seem to have been DRIVEN by the Lord to do something I never wanted to do or ever thought I would ever do: Try to free SDAs from their fear, slavery, occultism, addiction, and pharisaism.

I no longer believe SDA leadership should go unchalleneged in their strenuous ongoing efforts to "compass land and sea to make a single convert." Why should they continue unchallanged turning Methodists into Adventists? Why shouldn't they be challenged dead-to-rights in their tracks?

I no longer believe that former Adventists should take only a defensive position: defending our spiritual and theological integrity against marauding cyber-Pharisees, such as Dr. Tazz.

I think it's time to go beyond just dealing with "troubled" SDA members. A rescuing mission is without doubt a great and worthwhile work of God. But I now think it's time to go beyond that.

I now believe it's time to take the missionary offensive, to go directly to mainstream SDA people and offer them freedom in Christ, to offer to set them free from their fear, slavery, occultism, addiction, and pharisaism.

The tack is to tell them: "You can be set free." "Jesus Christ can liberate you."

What do y'all think?

Jude
Richard Jr.
Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2000 - 2:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Colleen, I still have a parent who is a S.D.A in Oregon. My mom died On March 2. My dad is a member in the Portland area. I have a brother-in-law who pastors a S.D.A. church in the Portland area. Richard Jr.
BMorgan
Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2000 - 8:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jude,
Glad you are up and running in full strength again. Missed hearing from you. BUT YOU ARE fulfilling another prophecy? Sis White is right Again!
"The worst enemies are the ones who turned their backs on the "truth" or testimonies." Ha, ha. You are branded brother,you are doing the works of Satan... I can't quote verbatim. She had too many contradictions.

Maryann
I totally understand your reaction about pastors authority. I am treading softly too. After those legalistic, control freaks it is hard to trust even the Spirit-led ones. But there are some wonderful ones out there. Of course they do not take the place of the Holy Spirit.
Talk to you later.
BMorgan

BMorgan
Bruce H
Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2000 - 8:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cas

---Now I don't attend any church and feel a bit
dissolusioned at times, I know I am coming to a
better understanding of the Lord than I have ever
known. I have found grace that I did not know
existed before. ----

Cas, Grace is the key I hope you can find some
people who you can fellowship with you face to
face, it is a real blessing. Pray that the lord
will bring sombody into your life he will not
leave you on your own.
Bruce H
Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2000 - 8:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jude

I love what you said you sound like a man in Gods
army ready for battle putting on your armour of
God. You ar firing me up!!!!!!
Colleentinker
Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2000 - 10:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

JudeóAmen! I believe God is preparing you for things you haven't quite imagined yet. And I believe you're rightóGod does want us to offer sight to the blind and freedom to the captives!

I pray for his leadingóit's always surprising and often disconcerting, but always fulfilling and rewarding. The whole prospect of evangelizing the SDA's reminds me of something Richard said last week. He said he finally realized that God wants him working right where he is (in an SDA institution) because God has specific work for him there. My job, he said, is to be here and speak for Christ. The actual work I do is how I earn a living. My real work is to declare the truth. I'll be here until God wants me somewhere else!

The most amazing thing is that God keeps bringing people into his life to whom he speaks for Christóat their instigation! This is my formerly shy and retiring husband! (He's still soft-spoken and unobtrusive, but he is bold about seizing the moment when God brings it to him.)

Yes, I believe you're right, Judeóand God will orchestrate this witness!

Colleen
Jude the Obscure
Posted on Thursday, April 13, 2000 - 8:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Colleen and Richard,

I owe the two of you more gratitude than I can ever express. I know you have been led by God, maybe even driven a bit, like I've been. I read a book once about St. Paul called, "Great Lion of God," and thus inspired, Colleen, I think I'm going to start calling your husband Richard the Lion Hearted. For I'm literally watching him become strong and bold in the Lord!

Jude
Jude the Obscure
Posted on Thursday, April 13, 2000 - 8:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

BMorgan,

Yes, your memory is good. EGW did so prophesy. And in so doing she followed in the footsteps of every false prophet. (False not so much in the sense of failed predictions as failing to speak for God and even speaking false things about God, especially God the Son.

And on that note .... I prophesy thusly: The SDAs will become extremely angry at me when they find out what I'm saying about their prophet.

Now, when that prediction comes true, do you think that qualifies me as a true prophet?

A point to ponder from,

Jude
Richard, Jr.
Posted on Saturday, April 15, 2000 - 6:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Jude, I thought what you had to say on April 12 to be very interesting. The best defense is a good offense. The gospel is positive, powerful, and sometimes offensive. Richard, Jr.
Maryann
Posted on Saturday, April 15, 2000 - 11:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Y'all,

I've been thinking. (Now we all are in trouble.)
I am possibly going to be tippy toeing on very thin shelled eggs.

Each one of you calculate how long you were in SDAism. STOP and think. Now, there are some of you that are in your 70s that were born into SDAism. There are some of you that have come in just a few years ago as adults. (I'm not really talking to the new converts here.) I'm talking mostly to the "longtimers" and the 2nd + generationer's (that word is in the dictionary I am writing :-) How long did you believe the SDA/EGW theology? How many years did you diligently study SDA/EGW? How sincere were you? Unless a person is a bit "touched" in the head, they are not going to devote a life time to some theology that they don't believe. Agreed? Okay, now, how long did it take you to un-study all of that diligent study? Did you quickly swallow the truth you now so whole heartedly and totally love and believe now? Did you fight it? I would certainly hope that you did. If not, I would be tempted to think you were wishy washy and could be led around by your nose by any thing that came down the pike. Once you "finally" accepted the wonderful, freeing truth you now so love, did you have fleeting or serious doubts as to whether you "really" were free. Did you wonder if you were doing the right thing? Did you ever think you were being "duped again?" Were you afraid? Wer you still afraid of God? Was it hard to be free from the cultic, legalistic teachings of a church you loved and a prophet you loved? Was it hard to believe that your "belief" and trust in the finished work of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ our God, put you into the Kingdom of Heaven "now" without all the baggage that had been heaped on you for a life time? If you answered yes to about 2 or more of those questions, you are the perfect candidates, through the grace of God, to rescue so many of the people you so deeply care about because you have been there too. But, here's the point to this long winded tirade. We need to extend to these deluded, hardheaded, stuborn, un-willing people the same grace that God extended to us when we we also so deluded, hardheaded, stubborn and un-willing. As long as there is breath in them there is hope. I just can't believe that "most" of these people are NOT HONESTLY deluded. I just can't believe that "most" of these people are out to "decieve" us into the living hell they don't admitt they are living in. I would die before I would believe that most of them are NOT as sincere as every one of us! Do you believe that the devil has a strangle hold on their minds? I do! Let's be generous and patient with them. Jesus was and is with us :-)

Well, I'm not trying to stir anything, simply expressing my heartfelt concern. I have a tub full of water ready to wash the egg from my feet if necessary :-)

Still tippy toeing.......Maryann
Richard, Jr.
Posted on Saturday, April 15, 2000 - 4:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Maryann, I am not sure if I understand your last message. Are you saying that Adventists are honestly deluded? Another way of asking the question,are Adventists sincere in their delusions? I am thinking that the devil can get a strangle hold on anyone who opens their selves to him, irregardless of their denominational standing. Does that make sense? Richard Jr.
Maryann
Posted on Saturday, April 15, 2000 - 6:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Richard Jr,

Were you sincere when you were and SDA? I would find it very hard to believe that you knew you were deluded "all" the time you were SDA. I'm not giving the G.C. guys a very big loop hole, but, most of the members and portion of the pastors get my vote for sincere delusion. Have you ever heard of someone willing to die for something they know to be a lie? In my experience, the SDAs I know "would" die for their SDA/EGW belief. I've never put one to the test and never intend to either :-)

So, YES, I believe that most SDAs are honestly deluded. And I think they are honestly deluded because they are honestly scared wit-less. They are so afraid of things like the Invest. Judge., naming just one thing, that their fear seriously clouds their minds and they haven't a clue that the hold on them is not of God. What is "one" of the common denominators in the cults out there? Fear! Yes, fear can affect any area of life, and in the "religious world", it can really give the devil a foothold.

Again, to emphasize, I would rather die than to believe that the majority of SDAs are knowingly deluded! They are dead serious in their delusion the same way so many other cults are.

Hope to hear more......Maryann
Richard, Jr.
Posted on Saturday, April 15, 2000 - 7:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Maryann, Thank you. That's what I thought you were saying. I would have to agree. Most SDA's that I know sincerely and honestly believe in the doctrines of the church. Richard Jr.
Bruce h
Posted on Sunday, April 16, 2000 - 3:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Maryann

You are right. Fear is a sin.
Lynn W
Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2000 - 10:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And then there are those who say they never even read the Baptismal Cert. before they signed it. That's something I don't understand.
So here's another question, how many of you read you BC before you signed your name to it?

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