| Author |
Message |
Leigh
Registered user
Username: Leigh
Post Number: 75
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, April 26, 2004 - 5:25 pm: |     |
"He gave her special dreams so she could help people to know right from wrong and understand Jesus better."
That is scary. That is blasphemy. According to the Bible, that is the work of the Holy Spirit. Like others have said, "the further away from adventism I get, the more cultic it looks."
I will be praying.
Leigh |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 157
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 22, 2004 - 6:37 pm: | |
I was just reading on the website www.sdadefend.com. Apparently there are 3 professors from WWC(?Walla Walla) who are teaching very non SDA beliefs and the beliefs are non Christian also. The reason I bring this up is because I am trying to figure out how a person can get that far from the Bible. This is how I see it. If one does not believe in and accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, Satan will lead their minds where ever he wants them. When a person is grounded in Jesus Christ he/she is less likely to be led astray. Satan will depress people and will use what ever he can to lead anyone away from Jesus if their foundation is not sure.
This web site is dedicated to restoring historic Seventh day Adventism to the SDA church.
I started reading some of the stuff there and because I have just started studying the Bible I decided to get off it, so Satan cannot mix me up.
But, thank God, I could see where the people did not quote the Bible accurately.
This is a sad situation for a church who claims to love God.
God is truly Awesome.
Diana |
Freeatlast
Registered user
Username: Freeatlast
Post Number: 183
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 4:57 pm: | |
Diana, I think it's a slippery slope. Once you begin to interpret the Bible through a man-made "prophet" and not by the Holy Spirit, it becomes easy to exchange one "prophet"s interpretation for another's. That's why it is so dangerous to stray from responsible methods of Biblical interpretation. And, yes, it is so very sad. My entire family for the most part is still utterly deceived and it breaks my heart over and over. |
Sharon2
Registered user
Username: Sharon2
Post Number: 39
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, June 27, 2004 - 10:05 pm: | |
I want to say a few words for SDA education. I am a product of the SDA school system and only 1 year out of 20 years of education was I bombarded with EGW. I taught in the SDA education system for 20 years. I taught in the DC area, in North Dakota, in the Atlanta area, in the Los Angeles area, Henderson TN and Memphis, TN. In all of the urban areas and even at the academy in North Dakota, Ellen White was barely mentioned. Now in Henderson, I was ěrun out on a railî after the first year. I was that liberal California teacher! Now I am in the public school system and I can see that the SDA school system is very much superior to the public school system. I would recommend Adventist school over public school. And as long as you are living in an educated urban area you do not need to worry about massive doses of EGW. In grades 1-4 for the period of the entire 4 years there will be about 1 nine week period that has a few EGW stories. They will get her again in either 7th or 8th grade, a little in academy and then a few college classes. Generally, todayís teachers use her minimally if at all. On the other hand, if you are in a conservative country church or a self-supporting area the Adventist school may not be a good choice. The form of Adventism that is practiced and the emphasis on EGW depends very much on what part of the country you live in.
Sharon
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Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 336
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 11:17 am: | |
Sharon, in many ways you're right about SDA schools sometimes being better than the public schools, depending upon where you're located. The problem, I believe, with SDA schools wherever they are is that they do have that unddrlying Adventist world view that permeates everything they teach. Socially, while many SDA schools may not have the problems that public schools have with the very poor (overt gang problems, very low academic achievement, etc.), they have other social problems that affect kids deeply.
It's hard to become fully accepted if one is not an Adventist, or even if one's parents are not considered respected or respectable Adventists because of profession, lifesyle habits, irregular church attendance, etc.
In the densely populated, highly educated area we live, Adventist schools have a reputation for excellent academics. Under the surface, though, there are some deep problems with drugs, sex, and truly non-Christian although Adventist beliefs/expectations. Non-Adventists attending are not fully assimilated, and there are powerful internal cliques and other invisible but powerful walls that separate people.
Further, judging from our boys' experiences at two Adventist schools including LL Academy, while EGW may not be overtly taught in depth, the Sabbath is taught and its observance expected, and the true gospel is not emphasized. In fact, our older son's freshman Bible class bore little resemblance to a Bible class. The teacher lit candles at the beginning of class, turned out the lights, told the kids they were in a "safe place", encouraged journaling and drawing, and really taught no real Bible. Inductive bible study is not taught.
Another Bible class he had in jr. high school (same school as the freshman Bible class) was heavily EGW. In fact, in this rather liberal SDA community, that teacher was much criticized. She taught time of trouble, gotta-be-ready, persecution of Sabbath keepers--all the old familiar refrains.
In general, if you want your kids to have a Christian education, I'd suggest finding a Christian school that's not Adventist. (I realize this task may not always be an option in some parts of the country--especially if you want an evangelical, non-denominational school.) By high school--unless you're in a particularly bad school district, I do believe that kids who are grounded in Christ often do very well in public schools.
Really, schools differ greatly from one another. I do believe, however, that based on my experience as a student at SDA schools, a teacher at SDA schools and also at Christian schools, and a mom of SDA and also Christian school students, my choice at this point would be to find some other option than SDA schools! Just my opinion.
Colleen |
Freeatlast
Registered user
Username: Freeatlast
Post Number: 184
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 11:32 am: | |
I am a product of 13 years in SDA educational institutions and am now, at age 39, attending community college collecting undergrad credits toward a Master's degree in psychology. I am utterly astonished at the lack of education I received relative to art, music, and literature. I learned more about these subjects from a simple Intro to Western Philosophy survey course at a community college than I learned during my entire education at SDA institutions. I think it is because the art, literature, and music found outside the realm of Christianity is deemed evil and dangerous by those who set the SDA curriculum. For those of you who went further in SDA university than I did (1 year at La Sierra), can you even enroll in courses that teach "secular" literature, music, or art at an SDA university? Just curious... |
Pheeki
Registered user
Username: Pheeki
Post Number: 333
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 12:08 pm: | |
My husband told me he feels like he really is lacking in knowledge about world history and literature. And this is a smart guy. He says it wasn't really taught in his SDA schools.
We are sending our kids to a non-denominational school this year that uses Abekka. I found that the SDA church school was seriously academically lacking. The teachers allowed students to simply not turn work in and then oops! no grades at report card time...so we, the parent's had to go up there, pull the stuff out of his desk, help him do it, turn it in and viola! He got A's and B's. Now how is this possible? |
Thomas1
Registered user
Username: Thomas1
Post Number: 117
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 12:13 pm: | |
Through two years of college, I attended SDA schools all but three years. During that time I never had a class on Art or Culture, never had a Phys ed. class (thought my transcript showed an A in it, as the state required it), and although "Bible" was required every year, I can never remember studying the Bible, or being encourage to read the Bible through. All instruction was from denominational texts that stressed "proof" texts that proved we were "right". During the time I have attended state funded institutions, I was very surprised just how undereducated I was despite the fact that I finished High School (academy) with above average grades in College Prep. classes.
It is so wonderful to get my Bible from the Bible, and be taught by the Spirit, not the "Truth"!
<><
Thomas |
Dennis
Registered user
Username: Dennis
Post Number: 105
Registered: 4-2000
| | Posted on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 10:23 pm: | |
We must not forget that the ONLY reason that Adventist schools exist, is to make Adventists out of the students. On the other hand, Christian schools exist for the purpose of teaching the essentials of the Christian faith.
Dennis J. Fischer |
Loneviking
Registered user
Username: Loneviking
Post Number: 259
Registered: 7-2000
| | Posted on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 10:49 pm: | |
I can't complain about my SDA education. We had art/culture along with all of the other subjects. I also had several pretty good Bible classes including one comparing the different branchs of Christianity.
In high school we had plenty of P.E., including one of the roughest games I've ever played anywhere. Take an old basketball, pull the filler plug out and fill it with water then put the plug back in. (Yeah, it's time consuming but only has to be done once). The ball now weighs about 25 lbs. Two teams are formed, a coin is tossed to see who gets possession of the ball first. The team with possession has the objective of getting the ball to the opposite goal post. The other teams objective---stop 'em. Rules? Don't do anything lethal, other than that, stomp 'em! We would come out of there with bloody noses, split lips, bruises all over, occasionally a concussion---but it was a good way of taking care of all of that teenage testosterone. NO GIRLS ALLOWED IN THIS GAME! 
Bill |
Lydell
Registered user
Username: Lydell
Post Number: 620
Registered: 7-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 9:28 am: | |
Bill, this is proof once more that men are different from women. All us females reading that story were immediately saying, "why?!" ha! Ladies, have you ever asked the men in your life to tell you some of the things they liked to do with their buddies when they were like between the ages of 11 and 14? Your brain just keeps saying, "WHY?!" |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 165
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 10:13 am: | |
I had SDA schooling 1st through 12th grade. My first year of college was at a public school. Boy, did I see the difference there. I did not get the grades I got in SDA schools. I was totally unprepared. I was not prepared for psychology and history. I finished college at La Sierra, where the Bible teacher taught the Bible using the Desire of Ages, and LLU. The SDA schools prepare the SDAs to go to SDA colleges.
I took my son out of SDA schools when he was in the 4th grade due to the teacher not liking me and taking it out on him. I put him in the local public school. What wonderful teachers he had and very Christian in their attitudes. But my son has told me that history is not taught accurately in the public schools either. He learned lots more in college. He was a history major.
I have two nephews who went to Loma Linda Academy. My brother was and is not practicing Adventism. One summer his youngest son went to the local public high school and took a history course. When he returned to LLA the SDA school would not accept the credits from the public school. So my brother took both his kids out and they finished their schooling in public school.
The SDA schools prepare the SDAs for college in SDA colleges and univerisities. Again, I say how sad, when a people do not know Christ and teach a lie or a half truth. |
Melissa
Registered user
Username: Melissa
Post Number: 367
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 10:36 am: | |
B has made the comment that my son could read better than some of the older kids he knew (from his church). He seems to be impressed with the opportunities my son has at public schools, but is always in a little bit of a perplexity to say SDA education is very important. He thinks if anyone were "committed", they could find a way to pay for the private education. Most private schools don't deal with the poor and their family dynamics. Public schools don't get a choice on the students they get. But public schools have a wealth of opportunities in larger communities. I think 10 minutes of EGW too much and, given how I am "received" the times I've been in an SDA environment, I can't image the school kids don't equally shun the outside school kids. My initial response has been echoed elsewhere, but B thought the SDA education is the only "loving" choice parents "who really care" would make. He even said that anyone should be able to afford private education, if they had their priorities right. That seems like a lot of guilt to put upon the lower income famillies in the religion. |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 338
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 10:59 am: | |
So true, Melissa. I also believe strongly, after my experience at a good inter-denominational Christian school, that public schools also have a distinct place for many students which many private schools cannot fill because of budget constraints. Except for a few individual Christian schools which have developed budgets and special payment plans for special education in varying forms, public schools are the best choice (in my opinion) for any student with a serious learning disability.
By learning disability, I'm sure you know, I don't mean marginal IQ. I mean processing disorders which cause some students to have a very hard time reading, writing, or understanding either visually or aurally. I had some students with marked learning disablities during the past five years, and in most cases their parents wanted them to have a Christian education, so they refused to place them in public school where they could actually receive instruction that would help them to compensate for their disabilities.
I know Adventist schools do not have special ed. programs, nor do most private schools (although some do). For what it's worth, my advice for students with serious learning disabilites is to go to a public school where the programs there actually can equip the student to succeed and even to go to college, in many cases, whereas ignoring the problem will probably leave the student with such low grades he or she couldn't be accepted into college or university and may leave him feeling helpless to succeed in life.
Just my two cents' worth!
Colleen |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 166
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 12:28 pm: | |
Reading these last two post reminds me of my SDA schooling. My parents were very poor and insisted on sending us to SDA schools. Consequently, I and my two older sisters, were farmed out to families to work as maids and they paid the tuition. My two older sisters went to SDA families and Thank God I was sent to a non-SDA family who treated me like one of their daughters. The SDAs were kind to my sisters, but the whole church knew about it.
This is hard for a teenager to explain to their peers. When my younger sister got to high school, she refused to be farmed out. Looking back now, God was showing me that non-SDA people can be Christian also.
I think a teenager needs their parents more during the teenage years as there are so many temptations for them away from home.
Colleen, you are right about the public schools having the classes and facilities to teach the kids with learning problems. I worked in public schools as an Occupational Therapist. The problem I encountered in the public schools is that the parents I met expected the school to solve their kids problems. I feel very keenly about this because my son would have been dyslexic if I had not known what I know and worked with him for two years when I discovered it. God gave me the knowledge to help him overcome it. I offered to teach parents things they could do at home to help their student. Of all the parents I met in the 7 years I worked in the public schools, only 2 parents cared enough to find out what to do at home to help their student and did it. Those 2 students did very well.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Diana |
Loneviking
Registered user
Username: Loneviking
Post Number: 261
Registered: 7-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 3:51 pm: | |
Yep, guys do all sorts of things that leave the ladies going 'why?'. Why tear up your hands fixing the car when you have the money to take it into the shop? Why cut and haul out of the woods large amounts of firewood, using dangerous chain saws on hillsides so steep you can roll the wood down to the car---and then have to split it? Why not just buy it!
Sigh! After 24 years of marriage I've given up trying to make my wife understand...........
Bill |
Lydell
Registered user
Username: Lydell
Post Number: 621
Registered: 7-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 6:23 pm: | |
well yeah, there are those things.....but I kind of understand the attraction in them.
but I was thinking more along the lines of the average all-American male child in the 11-14 category longing to get his hands on dynamite so he can blow something up. You know...that sort of thing.... |
Loneviking
Registered user
Username: Loneviking
Post Number: 262
Registered: 7-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 12:33 am: | |
Yep, I did that too! And still do! You should see the fun a bunch of us pyromaniacs have had down in Mexico. Have you ever seen a campfire blown up with a half stick of dynamite? Or raced the big 3 ft. bottle rockets down a beach? As a kid I used to blow off firecrackers in garbage cans and blow up pumpkins at Halloween......such wonderful memories! Thanks Lydell..........
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Sharon2
Registered user
Username: Sharon2
Post Number: 40
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 02, 2004 - 12:25 am: | |
I understand about all the bad experiences that people have had in SDA schools. I could write pages of personal experiences that would make you gasp. I know first hand about the ěpecking ordersî and the politics. I have heard that some schools offer inferior academics, but I have not been exposed to those schools. I also know that usually there is not enough religion taught or lived to change lives. When my husband and I were teaching in the system, we ran into a lot of political problems because we did not show favoritism to the ělocal power people.î Now that I am out of the system (And I never want to teach in it again!) I teach in some of the most deplorable conditions. Kids with disabilities do not get helped. When I was teaching in the middle school, I used to say there will never be a Columbine here because everyone will just pull out their weapons and shoot it out. Academics are unbelievably poor. The buildings are old, roach infested, dirty. Things happen to kids where I teach and those things are often far worse than being snubbed by the snotty daughter of a wealthy doctor or hearing stories about a strange woman who lived in the 1800ís
As I have looked back on my years as a student and as a teacher, the real issue is not what have ětheyî done to me in the name of Adventist education, but, what have I done with the experiences. I used to be very bitter about the way I was viciously snubbed through elementary school and academy and about the dirty politics of working for the denomination, but the Lord has helped me to lay it down, leave it at the cross. The way I know that I have really left it and that I am not just saying words, is that I can remember all those hurtful events and there is no emotional pain, not even a twinge connected to those memories. And, I can honestly recommend our local SDA elementary school and the boarding academy as far better places to have a child than the public school system here. I will say this, I do not recommend Adventist colleges. They are a waste of money.
Sharon
PS. I know I am a little slow in keeping up with the postings right now. We are having out of town company over the 4th and I had a lot of cleaning to do. I may not get back on for a few days.
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Melissa
Registered user
Username: Melissa
Post Number: 370
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 02, 2004 - 8:49 am: | |
I understand what you are saying about the particular school you are in now, but honestly, that doesn't seem like any public school I have ever been in. Not as a student, nor as a parent. I have a special needs kid in high school as well has my 'normal' children. My special needs kid has had WONDERFUL teachers and para supports. They even bought her clothes one time when I was particularly struggling. In my son's 4th grade class, every single child passed the standardized tests for math and science. Personally, my son got in the 90% on both tests. On his 5th grade assessments, he got 100% on the tests. The student teacher ration is 1:20 and most of the teachers have been in our building 20+ years. They are very caring and some of the things they did academically as 5th graders, I did in middle school or even high school. The standards and expectations are very high. My son is going into the advanced pre-algebra class in 6th grade, which is before school at a different building. They will bus them back to their home schools before classes start...I didn't do algebra until 8th grade and that was advanced then. The stuff he is doing in all of his classes is far more intense than anything I ever remember doing in elementary school...you ought to see the spelling words! Our facility is clean, carpeted, air conditioned and kids feel safe. Even the custodial staff knows all the kids names. It seems pretty typical of schools in our area (except for the inner city school district...but that is dealing with the very poor and that is a whole different mindset). I have looked at the private Christian schools here, but they just don't offer anything any better than I have right now, plus I'd have to pay extra for it. To me, the economic level of a school area is far more telling than whether it is a private or public school. And those issues aren't related to the school only, but you can see it out in their communities. My dad used to work for the Kansas City, Missouri school district in building maintenance and trying to get funds for facilities when there aren't funds for teachers is a challenge. I wouldn't send my kid to those school, but I'd move to a different school district before I'd send my kid to an SDA school.
It seems unfair to label all public schools as bad because some are. |
Pheeki
Registered user
Username: Pheeki
Post Number: 338
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 02, 2004 - 8:53 am: | |
We are sending our kids to a non-denom school and our brother-in-law's kids desperately want to go with their cousins...but when my b-i-l checked it out he said it "freaked him out." I am not sure why? Maybe because the Holy Spirit is there and he is nearly an athiest (he is married to my husband's sister who is SDA but holds on loosly to it) or maybe because it isn't fancy and the teachers (and kids) just look like regualar people...IOW...you cannot tell who the rich kids are, etc.
So I guess their kids will return to the SDA church school this year...but guess what. The school is full of mold, possibly black mold. The roof has leaked for years but they can't afford to fix it so they pull the carpet up every year mop under it and clean and put it back down and under it is disgusting mold...plus they haven't ever checked the walls. And I don't see them really caring if there is mold or not...can you imagine sitting in a moldy room all day? |
Cindy
Registered user
Username: Cindy
Post Number: 583
Registered: 7-2000
| | Posted on Friday, July 02, 2004 - 6:40 pm: | |
Some questions on "Adventist" education...
Do we really consider Adventism to be based on Satan's deceptions and lies?
Do we feel that Adventist doctrine ADDS to the true gospel of Jesus Christ?
That it is, as Paul writes in Galations, "another gospel...which is really no gospel at all!"
If we do, could there be more involved here than just getting a "good education"?
Perhaps there is more of a spiritual warfare involved in this despite any promotion (or denigration) of their schools' excellent (or horrible) facilities and/or academics. Maybe the damage done is more subtle, yet more damaging spiritually.
I have struggled with this...feeling now that to continue to support the educational system ultimately continues to support the lie of Seventh-day Adventists' claim to "truth".
Ellen White claimed to speak for God... Adventisms'"unique" doctrines are a denial of the supremacy of Jesus' finished work on the cross for us; and to try and just ignore any teachings, however minimally taught, (of EGW or the Sabbath "testing truth") did not seem totally honest, at least to me.
grace always,
cindy |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 353
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 05, 2004 - 12:48 pm: | |
Cindy, Thanks for distilling the essence of the question so well. I agree with you; those very issues you raised are the reasons we in the Tinker household no longer support the fund-raising drives of our alma maters. In fact, when Richard has answered the phone during the phone-a-thons, he has stated that he no longer sends money because he's no longer Adventist.
One evening he got the phone solicitor from my college (Walla Walla), when I was out. The student on the other end was quite taken aback and asked him, "Why?" Richard told him he had found Jesus and His gospel, and he now knew he was saved. He even referred him to this website. The young man was actually interested and admitted to having his own questions.
It's all about planting seeds...the harvest isn't our reponsibility!
Colleen |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 195
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 12:57 pm: | |
I like the issues you raise Cindy, even though my son is an adult now. The way I see it is that Satan will use anything to influence and keep in his grasp any one under his influence. The longer one is steeped in adventism, the more they may have to struggle to leave. Of course if it starts early enough they may not leave. But God can break through anything, even Satan's most deceptive plans.
An interesting thing to me is that I have never donated to my alma mater-Loma Linda University-never!!! I cannot put my finger on why, but I just did not. Now I know I will not support it.
Just another example of how God was directing me and leading me. WOW!
God is AWESOME!!!
Diana |
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