| Author | Message | ||
| Tdf Registered user Username: Tdf Post Number: 2 Registered: 11-2004 |
I just received the latest edition of our local SDA church's newsletter and it includes the following story that troubled me greatly (the attached has been somewhat edited by me just to make it shorter and easier to read). Have you ever heard of this story? Do you have any thoughts about it? <<<In October of 2000 a 30-year-old native of Laos, now in Australia for just a few years, was asleep waiting for a 9 am flight to America. Buddhist all her life, Sirivongack-Soo for short-was seeking for truth...and anxious to see the America of her childhood dreams. At 3 am Soo was awakened by her bedroom door opening and shutting. Terrified that one of the Buddhist spirits was visiting her, she watched as the room began to grow bright. Unable at first to open her eyes, she finally could see a shining being in a white robe standing by her bed. He had blazing eyes and beautiful skin. In a lovely voice this being told her about Jesus, the God of Heaven who created and loved her. For about one hour he talked with her in her native tongue, telling her to write down everything he said...even spelling the words and names she had never before heard. She was to contact the "Ellen G. White Conference" for which he gave her a name, address, and phone number. Soo was to contact a number of Seventh-day Adventist workers, including Mark Finley, Doug Batchelor, Ken Cox, Ron Halvorson, Lonnie Melashenko, and John Carter. John Carter was to teach her about Revelation, Matthew 24, and Leviticus 11. Then she was directed to find a school that would teach her the health message, to translate the Desire of Ages and The Great Controversy into her native tongue and "go back to your country and tell your people everything you have learned...Jesus is coming very, very soon." During the time the angel was with her, the cancer was healed.">>> From here, the story goes on to say that Soo did as she was told and became a valiant worker for good by translating Ellen White books into her native tongue and by sharing the "good news" of the Advent message with the world. I found it disturbing that this story was included in the church's newsletter. Do you have any thoughts? | ||
| Sabra Registered user Username: Sabra Post Number: 253 Registered: 10-2001 |
Yeah, I have a thought. What angel of light would tell a Buddist such a thing? | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 82 Registered: 7-2004 |
I know I've heard similar "mission stories", over the years, where someone sees an angel or has a dream and they are told incredibly specific things that only SDA's believe, and they're told that's the correct way and it always ends with "Jesus is coming soon." Although, the story you related does have several more specific details. I would say it should be treated like any other "message"--if it speaks according to the Bible, great, and it is from God. If not, it has another source. Someone could be making these stories up to provoke fear into SDA's that they need to stay in the "only correct church", or it could indeed be Satan posing as an angel of light. | ||
| Krista Registered user Username: Krista Post Number: 35 Registered: 8-2004 |
Wow, Tdf, I'm surprised that was in the church's newsletter. That story sounds creepy to me, and I do not believe it. Names and phone numbers - all sda?? Hello! Someone actually emailed it to me recently... and upon reading it, I got the same feeling as when I heard that Bibles magically washed ashore onto Pitcairn Island and when the people read them, they knew to keep the sabbath. | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1070 Registered: 11-2002 |
Is sounds like an imposter of truth to me. Sadly, throughout the history of Adventism these sorts of stories have made the sounds, one after another. The person was visited by a spirit from the dark side. The Holy Spirit does ot work in this manner. If th SDA's who read these sorts of stories in their own churchs publications would open their Bibles and compare what the Bible says with what these spirits are saying the SDA's would run as fast as they could away from Adventism. You can go into any ABC and find numerous books with these sorts of stories. You can also pick up any Watchtower (the JW rag) and read the same sorts of drivvel. And, or your ibformation I really do believe tht satan and his demons can appear to the vunerable and it is not something to mess with. Jesus says, "I am the way, the truth and the light, all who come unto me will not perish but have everlasing life". Nowhere did Jesus say to contact Doug Botchler or Mark Hiderly or Joe Crews or Ellen White or any of those others. | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 83 Registered: 7-2004 |
Actually, Jesus did one time send an angel to Cornelius, according to Acts 10, and told him to find Peter, "who is staying with a tanner named Simon, whose house is by the sea." If there had been phone numbers and addresses back then, maybe that also would have been given. Granted, there is a major difference in that Cornelius was a devout man who prayed continually to God. But, I don't think we can say for sure how God does or doesn't work. There are so many examples in the Bible of pretty strange and unlikely ways God has worked! That's why I think it still goes back to how the message compares with the Bible. | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 41 Registered: 8-2004 |
I agree, Raven. It really does come down to what the message is and where it is coming from rather than what the presentation looks like or even, to some degree, who it's given to. helovesme2 | ||
| Dane Registered user Username: Dane Post Number: 63 Registered: 4-2004 |
This sounds like a typical SDA Urban Legend similar to the many we all heard growing up. One major hole in this story is the timing. She was "contacted by an angel" in late 2000. She was instructed to find all these people in America, plus translate several books into her language from a language that she probably didn't speak, then attend school. Now, only 4 years later she has all this done? I don't think so. Also, the way the story is put together smacks of Urban Legend. Susan_2 may be onto something also. If the woman was actually contacted by a spirit being, it was a demon. Angels of God do not direct people onto false paths. Dane | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 898 Registered: 12-2003 |
I agree with all of the above. Urban leends abound, even in religious circles. Angels of light do not promote false teachings. (Remember Paul said in Galatians that even if an angel from heaven should teach something other than the gospel he taught, let him be "eternally condemned"? Gal. 1:7) Adventists have a long history of embellishing if not outright inventing miracle stories (especially mission stories). The Bible is the litmus test. If it speaks not according to the Bible, it's not from God. Colleen | ||
| Vchowdhury1 Registered user Username: Vchowdhury1 Post Number: 68 Registered: 7-2004 |
I really think these sda "urban legends" are designed to strike fear into sda members and therefore keeping them in the denomination. I mean, who would leave the church if "Angels" are appearing to people telling them that sda-ism is the ONLY way to salvation. Thats one way of keeping people in "check". | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1073 Registered: 11-2002 |
One of my favorite O.T. stories is when the donkey talks. I just think that is a really cool story. The dude starts beating his donkey and the donkey says to him, "Master, haven't I been a good donkey for you? " The fellow realizes the donkey is right and stops beating the beast. This story keeps me in check when I get mad at my cat. Speeking of beasts-it's raining cats and dogs outside right now! Oh, the weather is wicked out there. | ||
| Vchowdhury1 Registered user Username: Vchowdhury1 Post Number: 69 Registered: 7-2004 |
I have heard of situations in the Bible when Angels appeared to people and it probably could happen today. But, I have my doubts when so- called Angels appear to people and tell them that they have to follow a particular "Religious" sect or a particular group, and actually give out addresses? Now, thats very suspect. These almost sound like demons. | ||
| Dd Registered user Username: Dd Post Number: 182 Registered: 7-2004 |
One thing that has really bugged me for quite sometime is the "Jesus is coming" that SDAs chant...it's kind of like Santa...I better watch out! There was never a stress on living with the Fruits of the Spirit or living with God's Word in my daily life or the benefits of having His Light in my days...Yes, Jesus is coming - it will be a GLORIOUS day but until then GIVE ME JESUS! | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 705 Registered: 3-2004 |
AMEN Dd. Just GIVE ME JESUS until he comes again. That will be glorious and oh so awesome. Diana | ||
| Pw Registered user Username: Pw Post Number: 172 Registered: 6-2004 |
Paul said that if someone, OR EVEN AN ANGEL preaches a different gospel than the one he preached let him be accursed. Whether this event actually happened or not, it's a perfect example of taking the Gospel of Jesus and turning it over to the teachings of EGW. A sure-fire sign that this is another false testimony. | ||
| Hrobinsonw Registered user Username: Hrobinsonw Post Number: 80 Registered: 7-2004 |
Tdf, Wow. Can you imagine the impact that such a letter would have amongt it's subjects? I hear people on a daily basis that speak of dreams and somehow their dreams support their belief in EGW. I told my fiance's roomate that EGW may have been a victim of temporal lobe dammage as well as mercury poison. Symptoms of such things result in hallucination. She called me a persecutor. | ||
| Jeannette Registered user Username: Jeannette Post Number: 61 Registered: 3-2003 |
Did any of you ever read the book about angels written by the guy who wrote Incredible answers to prayers. It was a very spooky book. He quoted from EGW that in the last days evil angels would take our form and commit horrible crimes and we would go to prison. I threw the book away but it scared me to death. Jeannette | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 67 Registered: 7-2004 |
I have real mixed feelings about the various "explanations" for EGW and her writings, such as the temporal lobe damage. Often times I think they become a crutch so that someone can still believe that she was basically a nice Christian lady who wrote books that can be inspirational at times but was just mistaken about her "calling" from God and the source of her visions. At some point I think the decision must be faced that she is a prophet who had visions, and that there are only two types of prophets. I don't think there is room for believing in a slightly deluded, but basically "nice" Christian writer. | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1084 Registered: 11-2002 |
I just finished reading the entries on voluntary Adventist Online. The very first listing on there is called, "Adventist News" Then the first entry under Adventist News is this story about Ms. Soo. The angel who visited her is named Gabriel. The article even says the names of the hymms that the hior in eaven is singing. They are all SDA songs, or aybe I should say songs that are frequently sung in SDA churches. You can go to Voluntary Adventist online and read it, as well as the updates about Ms. Soo. | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 91 Registered: 7-2004 |
Now that's funny! I just went to www.adventistonline.com, to read about Ms. Soo that Susan posted. It says "Wow! Satan is working hard! Our server is down and we are offline for the moment." Have you ever noticed that SDA's see EVERYTHING as a moral issue, or everything as attributable to God or Satan? | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 73 Registered: 10-2004 |
The URL for the forum Susan mentioned is www.online-adventist.org The SDA forums give me the creeps. I don't even go to them anymore. Jeremy | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 910 Registered: 12-2003 |
Ric_b, I agree wtih you. She may have had temporal lobe damage, and she may have had hallucinations. But after she hit midlife, her "visions" stopped. She then proceeded to get her revelations in dreams, always guided by the same handsome young man. I can't excuse her as merely injured or deluded. She was a false prophet, and she damaged and destroyed people's reputations (more as she got older). Temporal lobe damage doesn't discount either divine or demonic intevention in her life. Clearly the fruit of her life is confusion and obscurity of the gospel, but the work of the Holy Spirit is to clarify Jesus. I can only conclude that a deceptive spirit directed many of her "revelations". (It appears that the writings of others directed the rest of them.) Colleen | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 722 Registered: 3-2004 |
I agree with Colleen. If we excuse EGw and temporal lobe damage it makes it easier for others to accept her. I cannot do that any longer. She knew what she was doing. That has nothing to do with temporal lobe damage. So, in my mind, she is a false prophet. That is the bottom line when it comes to EGW and how she is upheld by the SDA church. Diana | ||
| Carol_2 Registered user Username: Carol_2 Post Number: 303 Registered: 2-2002  |
Have any of you been hearing any more about this Soo's "angelic visits?" Just curious, as my SDA mother called me over the weekend. She and I avoid talking about my leaving the church, but at the end of our conversation, as we were saying good-bye, she said she was going to e-mail me some information about a girl who's had some very interesting dreams or visions. My mother said that she had just hung up after talking with "Pastor Gray in California" about this for some time (Anyone have any idea who Pastor Gray in California is?) I'm assuming she's going to be sending me information about this Laotian lady. Also, I was with a group of SDA friends for the weekend, and the daughter of a friend called and said her mother was flipping out because she had read something of Roger Morneau's about typewriters typing by themselves, and that she had received a letter in the mail and tried to burn it, but only the envelope burned and the letter would not burn. Then she tightened a lid on a jar so tight that her own mother could not open it. Later the jar was laying on its side with its contents leaking out. (I know this sounds ridiculous, just repeating what I was told.) This person who these things were happening to is a "fairly" balanced person, a little eager to read something into everything at times, but I was surprised. I do not believe she would make these happenings up. Am rambling, but just wondering if the rest of you are hearing more of this stuff, and what do you think? Are the SDAs freaking out because of the recent change in pope? I personally am thinking more and more how possible it is that these SDAs are the most susceptible of all to actually be deceived in the end-time (which could be quite near.) Previously I did not worry so much about my mother. I thought although doctrinally off, she was sincere, and was saved. However now I'm becoming concerned about her and other SDAs like her. They're focusing on all the wrong things! I feel more than ever how Satan is furiously working to keep their focus off Jesus. Hope I'm making sense. Anyone else experiencing these type things? | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1834 Registered: 12-2003  |
Carol, I'm not personally hearing these things, but I'm not surprised if others are. I am certain God is performing an awakening. There's a reason so many Adventists are polarizing and either leaving the church or becoming cripplingly deceived. God's Spirit is working in other venues and among other demographics as well. The core issue REALLY is what we do with Jesus. Do we admit our deep singfulness, our innate death sentence, and repent before God? Do we accept the literal cleansing of Jesus' blood--not just some vague notion of God's forgiveness? Do we believe we must surrender to Jesus and His finished work? Do we embrace Him at the risk of losing all else? These are the questions God ultimately brings to everyone. What we do with Jesus--how we see ourselves and our need of Him--whether or not we repent and surrender--these are the issues that matter. All else is a distraction and an attempt to "feel good" about oneself and one's eternal destiny. We're not saved by what we know. We're saved by knowing Jesus. Remember what He says to the sheep and to the goats? They both claim the SAME THINGS--feeding poor, visitng the sick and imprisoned, casting out devils--etc. But God either says, "You did it unto Me; inherit the kingdom prepared for you," or He says, "I NEVER KNEW YOU. Depart from me." It's enough to make one cry if one thinks about it deeply. Colleen |
