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Jan
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Username: Jan

Post Number: 12
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Friday, February 25, 2005 - 7:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Basically I think the SDA church is not against abortion because Ellen White never spoke on the subject. The church can't have an opinion without her blessing.
Flyinglady
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Username: Flyinglady

Post Number: 1093
Registered: 3-2004


Posted on Friday, February 25, 2005 - 8:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Folks,
Remember what you were like when you were an active, died in the wool Adventist? Were you open minded? Would you listen to some one who was no longer SDA or any Sunday keeping Christian tell you about resting in Christ every day? I know I did not. The SDA church was God's remnant and I was not sure of salvation, but I was SDA. Remember the veil that covers their eyes and mind and that their ears are plugged with the EGW filters. We just have to continue to pray for them which most of you have said also. I am just reminding you what it was like when you & I wore the EGW filters. The filters do not let the Sun/Son come into our hearts. So let us continue to pray for our SDA brothers and sisters. God loves them and wants them with Him in heaven also. We have planted the seeds. The Holy Spirit will cultivate, convict and convince those who really want the truth. All of that is God's job, and he does a terrific job of it. He brought each of us out, didn't He?? He is awesome.
Diana
Flyinglady
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Username: Flyinglady

Post Number: 1094
Registered: 3-2004


Posted on Friday, February 25, 2005 - 9:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I just finished reading the two web sites we have posted on about Bucky, run by his grandfather, Pastor O'Fill. I am so sad that many of those, I cannot remember all their names, have this filter/veil over their mind, eyes and plugs in their ears. It is so frustrating after explaining from the Bible why you believe the way you do and it is twisted and misconstrued and they come back with a Bible text, taken out of context or EGW. I get very frustrated and very sad. I have to turn each one of those persons over to God. Thank God I can pray for them and I do as I know each of you does. It is so good to know at sundown in our own time zones we are praying and then on Saturday afternoon we pray as a group for our SDA brothers and sisters. We plant the seed, God and the Holy Spirit do the cultivating, convicting, and convincing. I thank God that we can take arrows for Him, when we stand up for Him. That is not much after what He did for us. It is a privilege to do that. I posted some on both the web sites, but Belva and others posted so much more. Thank each of you for planting those seeds. They will come to fruition. Who knows how many will make it to this forum or are lurking on here. I pray for each of them and for us. God is still in charge and He is awesome.
Diana
Greg
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Username: Greg

Post Number: 20
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Saturday, February 26, 2005 - 2:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi all,

Since the whole Bucky thing has run its course, I want to give you a quick introduction. There is a lot more to this story but it takes time to process and share...I hope to do that with everyone as we get to know each other better. Here's the abridged version of my story:

I was born into Adventism (fourth generation) and was educated in Adventist schools from kindergarten through medical school. Until recently, I did not spend much time questioning Adventism or its unique doctrine. Ironically, things started to change when I began attending Sabbath School again. The lesson that quarter was on the book of Daniel. Somehow I had managed to escape a firm understanding of the Adventist interpretation of Daniel throughout my many years of Adventist education (was I asleep?). What specifically troubled me the most was the interpretation of Daniel 8:14 which led to the doctrine of the sanctuary and the investigative judgement. I was also troubled by the interpretation of the beasts and what the horns represented. It struck me as odd that some in my class were so quick to link the prophecies in Daniel with the Catholic church, when Daniel himself had difficulty interpreting what he was shown. This led me to do further research on the interpretation of Daniel and the significane of the "little horn". In my research, I stumbled across Dirk Anderson's site at www.ellenwhite.org (thank Google for that one). I had harbored doubts about Ellen White previously, but had pigeonholed her as being irrelevant for present-day Adventism. Reading Dirk's site blew me away. After concluding that Ellen White fails the biblical tests of a prophet, I faced an even tougher problem. What part of Adventism is left if you remove Ellen White's influence? It was my conclusion that Ellen White and the unique doctrinal positions of Adventism are intertwined to the point where it becomes difficult to know where one ends and the other begins.

I was heartened to find that I was not alone in my conclusions. This site has been particularly helpful in my study, as well as the audio series on the new covenant by Mark Martin at www.sdaoutreach.org

Through all this, I am still a member of the Adventist church. I have been attending a local evangelical free church on Sundays, in addition to attending church on Saturday. I am happy to have found a congregation to worship with on Sunday that is focused on teaching the unfettered gospel of Jesus Christ.

In my journey, I have found comfort in the two commandments of Christ: 1) love the Lord your God and 2) love your neighbor as yourself. I now understand that everything worth following flows from Christ's life, death and resurrection. If you believe in these things, you are saved. Doctrine above and beyond this will not save anyone and being a member of a particular denomination will not save anyone. All the arguments about Daniel, Revelation, end time events and law-keeping fade away if you cling to Christ. If you have Him, these things will not trouble you.

I still attend the SDA church with my family because these concepts take some time to sink in. Adventism is both a religion and a culture. The religion of Adventism is easier to walk away from than the culture. In time, I am trusting Christ to make my path clear.

Thanks for reading this.

Greg
Carol_2
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Username: Carol_2

Post Number: 272
Registered: 2-2002


Posted on Saturday, February 26, 2005 - 4:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you for sharing some of your story Greg. I know I have been blessed by your gentle and Christ-like posts on the "Bucky" site, and it sounds like many others have too.

We look forward to hearing more of your story, and hope you will share often with us.
Flyinglady
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Username: Flyinglady

Post Number: 1096
Registered: 3-2004


Posted on Saturday, February 26, 2005 - 5:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Welcome Greg,
I read your comments on the Bucky forum and agreed 100% with you. I am one year out of adventism and am still studying Bible doctrine. I will never quit learning.
I will put you on my prayer list that God continue to lead you and your family where ever He wants. What ever He does with each of us shows me He is awesome.
Diana
Tealeaves
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Username: Tealeaves

Post Number: 218
Registered: 5-2004
Posted on Saturday, February 26, 2005 - 5:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Greg,
I pray that God will continue to lead in His Will, whatever that may be!
I know many who are in your situation, and it makes me wonder how many MORE there are that are still in the SDA culture even though their beliefs are different.
My husband had a difficult time leaving SDAism, and it took him 7 years of separating further and further before he finally removed his name from the membership roles.
You are certainly in my prayers.
-tanya-
Susan_2
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Username: Susan_2

Post Number: 1594
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Saturday, February 26, 2005 - 5:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Welcomew, Greg. I really learned a lot from you on the Bucky site. I hope to learn more from you on this site. It's interesting what you say about the SDA being both a religion and a culture. i took a sociology class in college that was about the many and diverse cultures within the USA, excluding the Native Americans. There was an entire chapter in my textbook about the Mormons being a distinct culture. I remember thinking SDA could be inserted for Mormon is the book.
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 1482
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Saturday, February 26, 2005 - 8:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Greg, thank you for sharing your story with us. I completely understand your Sabbath/Sunday, Culture vs. Religion situation. We have all been there--some of us still are in some degree. God WILL clarify when to move and how/where to move. He is faithful.

I'm convinced that as long as we are walking through the doors He opens and surrendering our desires to Him, He uses us wherever He has us. It's when we stop in front of an open door and don't walk through it because of fear or familiarity that we compromise our ability to be used by Him.

We're just glad that you've joined us here, and we'll keep praying for you!

Colleen
Flyinglady
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Username: Flyinglady

Post Number: 1097
Registered: 3-2004


Posted on Saturday, February 26, 2005 - 8:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I thought I would not post on the O'Fill site again, but today when I was reading some of the "stuff" there I got the distinct impression to ask the SDA version of the gospel. A L Lyons answered me and said outside of the Bible the best explanation of the gospel is the book "Steps to Christ". I answered him and said I preferred it from the Bible. I will see what he answers. This is under the thread about the remnant. When I first posted there and asked the question I did not use the name I usually use, "Flyinglady". When I had worship and started to pray, afterward, I got the very distinct impression I should be truthful and let them know who I was. So I got back on the site and told them I had posted there before, was not looking to be confrontational, did not want a bunch of flack, and did not want to debate anything. I said in all my years of SDA schooling I had never learned what the gospel was, so I wanted to know. He even offered to send me a copy of DoA. So follow that thread and pray that I will be a kind, compassionate Christian and that God will give me the answers he wants me to give.
I guess God has other plans for me. He is awesome.
Diana
Weimarred
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Username: Weimarred

Post Number: 28
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Sunday, February 27, 2005 - 12:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Greg,

I can really relate to the religion vs. culture aspect of leaving the church. My decision was to completely walk away from everything. This was very, very hard for me to do, walking away from everything that I had ever known up to that point. Looking back, I probably would have attempted to relate to my friends more, while still drawing a firm line regarding my personal spirituality.

At Weimar, we were very close-knit; there were never more than 50 kids or so enrolled. We did everything together. Sure, I saw hypocrisy, and I knew that many of us wouldnít stay in touch after graduation with the same sense of brotherhood. But I could have kept some sort of link with them. I hate to think that our shared indoctrination was our only common bond.

I guess maybe thatís the reason I tossed it all out. I was afraid that without the SDA thing, none of these people would be my friends. Iím also nauseated by the idea of having people ìpray for my soulî. And it hurts me that these people are still so caught up in things that are bizarre to me now.

Also, in my own journey, I needed immersion in the ìreal worldî (something we used to joke about at Weimar). I needed to see how people live without the crutch that I had been dependent on all my life. It was very much a shock to my system, but one that I wouldnít trade for a million bucks!

Itís just lately that Iím coming to closure with this thing. This site has helped, seeing that others face what I faced. Iím also re-connecting to old friends, to some extent. And whatís more, as I re-connect, I can do so in a healthy way from a balanced perspective!

My hope for you is that you find the right path to walk, whether itís directly away from or somehow parallel to what you have known in your life. I hope you find the balance and perspective without going as far away as I did! Iíve been away from my past for far too long!

Tom
Greg
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Username: Greg

Post Number: 21
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Sunday, February 27, 2005 - 5:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks everyone for your very thoughtful replies. My wife and I especially appreciate and need your prayers. The hardest part for us is leaving the friends we have in the Adventist church. While we have intellectually left the church, we are afraid of losing friendships that are very important to us.

We were talking about this last night. We're wondering how best to share our convictions with our friends. We concluded that it would be best simply to say we have been convicted to move in a different direction, yet we treasure their respective friendships and hope that they will continue.

Looming larger on the horizon is sharing our convictions with family. The thought of the ensuing upheaval is more than I can process right now.

Thanks again to each one of you for your prayers.

In Christ,
Greg
Ric_b
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Username: Ric_b

Post Number: 207
Registered: 7-2004


Posted on Sunday, February 27, 2005 - 5:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Greg,
I am happy to hear that you and your wife are together on this decision. It makes a big difference. At this time last year my wife and I were struggling with the same questions. We both knew we weren't really SDA anymore, but not certain about when and how to leave. This went on for a few months. We started making all of our plans for how and when we would transition. Those plans were built around gradually being less involved, attending less regularly, and becoming settled in a new church. Before any of this even started to happen we both became convinced (clearly "convicted") at the same time, yet for different reasons that NOW was the time. And that timing seems to have been perfect (should I be surprised?). Over the next 3 months several events happened that clearly would have pushed us to delay making a clean break. Our announcement also led us into a friendship with another local couple who were "in transition."

God's timing and leading can be trusted. The process is painful at times, but the freedom to openly share your convictions is also a great blessing.
Jan
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Username: Jan

Post Number: 13
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Sunday, February 27, 2005 - 12:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Greg, Ric-b, et al.

Many of us can relate to what you're saying and going through. While my family and I have cognitively accepted the truth of God's grace alone to save us, still I personally have an emotional melt-down more often than I'd like to admit. I miss former friends, don't like conflict, and find that my excitement isn't exactly appreciated by Adventists. They don't "get" it. They are praying for us to come back and we're praying for them to leave!

I just told my husband this morning that Adventists probably don't realize the church's cultural and doctrinal "grip" on their lives until they try to leave.

However, once freed you'll never want to go back. Imagine what the Apostle Paul went through! Martin Luther! And JESUS!

I wouldn't want to be in any other place right now and, frankly, this Forum is very helpful. Cheap therapy and "virtual" kindred spirits.
Hang in there!
Greg
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Username: Greg

Post Number: 22
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Sunday, February 27, 2005 - 12:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ric_b and Jan,

Thanks for your responses. It's really comforting to know we're in good company with others who have gone through the same proccess. Ric, you mentioned that it was important to go through this together with your wife. I wholeheartedly agree that husband and wife should be together on this decision, if at all possible. I was a little ahead of my wife in this journey but I tried to "slow down" a bit so she would be with me. This required a lot of prayer and patience!

Greg
Praisegod
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Username: Praisegod

Post Number: 256
Registered: 3-2004


Posted on Sunday, February 27, 2005 - 1:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

For those Adventists who approached me offering to "pray for you to return to church" I would gently stop them. Then I'd ask if they would mind just praying for God's will to be done in my life. And then I would ask that they pray that for themselves too. Most would look very shocked at my request. As I think about it, I guess as Adventists we knew what God's will was--to be SDA for sure!

Praise God...
Weimarred
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Username: Weimarred

Post Number: 29
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Sunday, February 27, 2005 - 1:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

To All,

Last night I wrote, quote:

Iím also nauseated by the idea of having people ìpray for my soulî.

By the light of day, Iím thinking to myself, ìThat isnít exactly what I meant at all! That sounded really petty!î So let me qualify that statement a little bit!

I still think that when I was an SDA at Weimar, an SDA boarding high school/college, I was a very good PRACTICING SDA. I made all the right moves, at least most of the time. Yet I always seemed to be the one in trouble; I always seemed to have the ìsystemî zeroed in on me. I just couldnít fathom it, especially when others around were ìgetting away with murderî, at least in my eyes. Even then I knew what was going on, but I couldnít accept my reality.

You see, Iíve always been blessed/cursed with an inquisitive nature. I call it ìthe back side of the moonî nature. I want to SEE the other side of the moon that most of us will never see, not out of some desire for glory or brilliance, but ìbecause itís thereî.

As an example, I once asked in Bible Class, ìDid Adam and Eve, and their kids, have to commit incest to get grandchildren?î Iíll never forget the response of my fellow students. They started tittering and acting embarrassed, like Iíd just passed gas in the middle of communion, or something. To my teacherís credit, he at least treated my question seriously.

My point is, the deeper you get into Adventism, whether Historical or Conservative, the more of an oxymoron the phrase ìinquisitive Adventistî becomes. Itís like oil and water!

Barely half-way through my freshman year at Weimar College, the Dean of Men came to me and said, ìTom, Iím sorry, but weíre not going to invite you back for your sophomore year.î That was the final straw! That night I packed up my car and left without saying goodbye to anybody. The whole time Iím driving down the road, with rock cranking out of my speakers of course, Iím thinking to myself, ìWhy, you arrogant, hypocritical pontificators! If Iím not good enough for your precious, un-accredited, religious college, then just exactly who is?î So yeah, I was a little bitter.

I made the mistake of cutting off friendships because of my bitterness, a mistake that I hope you wonít make, Greg, at least as far as possible. In a way, we students were the ìinnocentsî, being asked to make highly contradictory leaps of faith. Some of us lived quietly with the contradictions, but I couldnít. I had made these multiple and different leaps of faith, and, not being sure where I was going to land, I felt as though I were suspended in mid-air, not having any assurance about where I was going to land! As you all well know, thatís a VERY disconcerting feeling. So because of both my lack of assurance and because of my bitterness, I ended up throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

Even to this day, having SDAs praying for me is tough to swallow. I want to ask them, ìCan you at least admit that youíre not really sure about anything?î PraiseGod, you expressed it nicely! SDAs are shocked at the idea of a need for prayer!

And thatís more or less what I meant. I hope that SDAs include themselves in their prayers.
Flyinglady
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Username: Flyinglady

Post Number: 1100
Registered: 3-2004


Posted on Sunday, February 27, 2005 - 2:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

An SDA friend from VA wrote to me and said he would pray for me. I wrote back, let us ask God to lead both of us which he agreed to do. I know what he meant. I was not converted back into the church when I lived in VA and he was one of the elders that prayed for me when the elders came to my house to pray about my chronic fatigue. I have been thinking recently about that. If God had healed me, I would have rejoined the church there in VA. So I am glad I was not healed. I no longer have symptoms of it now. But back to the subject of SDAs praying for me. They are praying that I come back to the SDA church. And when I pray for SDAs, I ask God to show they the truth of the Bible and EGW.
Diana
Weimarred
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Username: Weimarred

Post Number: 30
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Sunday, February 27, 2005 - 2:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Diana,
I too think I experienced a blessing in disguise. Had I been accepted back to WC for my sophomore year, who knows where I'd be today.
I must admit that I was sort of a loose cannon, and I might have ended up being even more arrogant and hypocritical!
God does indeed move in mysterious ways.
Susan_2
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Username: Susan_2

Post Number: 1596
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Sunday, February 27, 2005 - 7:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tom, SDA's are very selfish with who they will pray for and what they will ask of God. It's really loony until you read the quotes by egw where she says to not waste your prayers on the lost. There is someone who regurally posts on here who is a master at finding those EGW quotes. Maybe he can find it and present it. My oldest child was extremely ill when he was a baby. He was in the Saint Helena San for nearly eight weeks. I went to the SDA minister at the college up in Angwin and asked him to come annoint my son and pray over my baby. When the SDA preacher found out I was openly living in sin he refused to pray for my baby telling me "God hears the prayers of the righteous" and I didn't qualify. I tell you that man was not presenting a Christian attitude, or Christian compassion, or Christian anything,. He was presenting himself as a total jerk. My child lived and he grew to be a wonderful man, but for sure not from any kindness on the part of that A-hole SDA preacher. I have no use for those people. Then just several months ago a different son of mine was laying on my living room couch dying as he'd slammed an eight ball (You have to know illegial drug lingo to know what I'm referring to.). We didn't want to call 9-1-1 because we didn't want to deal with the cops. So, I called the Lutheran pastor who immediately came out and made the sign of the cross on my sons forehead as he prayed for my sons healing at the same time telling our Lord and Saviour that "your will be done" and asking forgiveness of my sons sins so if the worst were to happen I could be assured my son was with Jesus and you know what? Within 24 hours my son was up and around. And, since that time he has realized God has given him an extension and he has truly made a turnaround. So, the SDA preacher will not pray for healing of a little baby because the babys mother is committing sin. The Lutheran minister will come pray over a drug addict who has just overdosed and the prayer was prayed with sincerity and humbleness. To me that really says a lot. This may sound very harsh but I will write it anyway. Although there are many wonderful, humble and kind SDA's, I truly believe the SDA's who hold the high positions within the organization are trash. Read the Bucky site. The non-SDA's sppek the Word of God and speek with loving kindness. The SDA's are very into themselves and quote EGW. And, I don't think I am being too spun with my ranting about the SDA's being led by a bad spirit. Jesus got it out with the money changers at the temple so by the example of Jesus Himself we are to denounce evil and call it just that when we see it. Are you attending college at another school now?

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