| Author | Message | ||
| Denisegilmore Registered user Username: Denisegilmore Post Number: 200 Registered: 10-2000 |
"President Bush was expected to sign the bill as soon as it gets to him. The development was the latest in an epic right-to-die battle between Schiavo's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, and her husband, Michael Schiavo, over whether she should be permitted to die or kept alive by the feeding tube...... "President Bush, who has said he favors a ëëpresumption of life'' for Schiavo, would also have to sign the bill into law." http://www.mtstandard.com/articles/2005/03/20/newsnationworld_top/hjjejghjjjhaij.txt Or just type 'Terri Schiavo' into google for latest updates. | ||
| Denisegilmore Registered user Username: Denisegilmore Post Number: 201 Registered: 10-2000 |
"Not Dead Yet: Schiavo Case is About Disability Rights" [A statement by President Bush follows the Not Dead Yet Press Release.] A Press Release from Not Dead Yet, http://www.notdeadyet.org/ Disability Advocates Support and Thank Tom Harkin Schiavo Case is About Disability Rights It's time for the press to talk to the real experts on the Schiavo case, the disability rights movement. Not Dead Yet has led the disability community's opposition to non- voluntary euthanasia for a decade. Diane Coleman, the group's founder and president, and Stephen Drake, its research analyst, are available in Chicago to discuss the disability angle on the recent legislative and legal developments in the case. The "right to life" movement has embraced Terri Schindler- Schiavo as a cause to prove "sanctity of life." The "right to die" movement argues that people in guardianship should have no protection against private family decisions to kill them. Yet the life-and-death issues surrounding Terri Schindler-Schiavo are first and foremost disability rights issues -- issues which affect tens of thousands of people with disabilities who, like Ms. Schindler-Schiavo, cannot currently articulate their views and so must rely on others as substitute decision-makers. That's why 26 national disability rights organizations have adopted a position in support of Terri Schiavo's right to continue to receive food and water. The evidence that Ms. Schiavo would refuse tube feeding is so unclear and conflicted that it does not satisfy legal standards. The lower court in Florida can pretend otherwise, and the Florida appellate courts can refuse to question the lower court judge, but it serves society poorly to give guardians such an unfettered right to kill. "We applaud Senator Tom Harkin, the long time supporter of the civil rights of people with disabilities, for his insight into the disability issues that underlie this high profile case," said Coleman, "and for his political courage in working beyond partisanship to uphold our fundamental rights." "Bioethicists like Art Caplan have tried to make this part of the right vs. left culture war," said Drake, "but that's a shallow and dishonest portrayal of what's going on in our health care system. While he talks about patient choice on TV, Caplan has been advocating futility guidelines that give doctors the authority to overrule family decisions back in Pennsylvania. His hypocrisy has gone unnoticed in the media, where he works to silence the voice of the disability rights community." CONTACTS: Diane Coleman & Stephen Drake (708) 209-1500 ext. 11 & 29 cell (708) 420-0539 http://www.notdeadyet.org ======================== THE WHITE HOUSE For Immediate Release Office of the Press Secretary March 17, 2005 President's Statement on Terri Schiavo The case of Terri Schiavo raises complex issues. Yet in instances like this one, where there are serious questions and substantial doubts, our society, our laws, and our courts should have a presumption in favor of life. Those who live at the mercy of others deserve our special care and concern. It should be our goal as a nation to build a culture of life, where all Americans are valued, welcomed, and protected - and that culture of life must extend to individuals with disabilities. http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/03/20050317-7.html | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 67 Registered: 3-2005 |
Denise, I stand with you on the Terry Schiavo situation. It is a disgrace what is happening to her. I watched with amazement the late Sunday night Congressional hearings. I just have to get this political dig in, Do you have any more respect for President Bush, since he stayed up until 1:30 AM to sign that last minute try at an appeal? Stan | ||
| Denisegilmore Registered user Username: Denisegilmore Post Number: 209 Registered: 10-2000 |
Hello Stan, I didn't see your post until just now at 1am Tuesday 22nd. It's hard to say Stan. Don't get me wrong, I'm thankful to God that President Bush did sign the bill. Very very Thankful! And even if he may have done it to gain political clout I'm thankful! Because, like you, what is happening to Terri Schiavo is a sickening display of our society and their apathetic stance on issues like this. Although this one case has made headlines, there are thousands of cases that don't. Going back to Bush...hmmmm, well I have to be honest (as you know I do anyway--even when it gets on peoples nerves sometimes)...did Bush do this out of compassion or was it a political move? Again, I want to reiterate how thankful I and many thousands of people are for his signature of this bill--no doubt about that whatsoever! But......will he do this for those who are being starved daily right here in the United States as we are typing? I doubt it. Unless Congress makes it a law that comes out and states that's it's illegal to murder those of us in the disability community, many will die tomorrow and the next day and the day after that and so on. See what I mean? Now, by the President of the United States signing this bill, this does indeed give us all some ray of hope! Believe me! As one of those who could be next on the list of throw-aways you can imagine the hope this instills. And not just in me but many of us. Still, speaking for myself now, I'll take a wait and see stance on my opinion of Bush to see if he will start speaking up on this issue as often as it should be. But no doubt, for doing what he did in Terri's behalf (and her parents) not counting the rest of us out here holding our breaths, I still give him credit on this one. He did good!  And it is showing another side to Bush that is truly needed to be seen. Not only by us in the United States but by the world at large. I could tell you this Stan, that if Bush were to be standing in front of me right now I'd probably give that man one big bear hug!! Does that help answer? Yes, it's probably a bit scattered but my neurotransmitters are a bit scattered a present so this is the best I can do right now. However, I'd love to discuss these types of issues with you or anyone else for that matter. The President went out of his way to sign this bill so hopefully we can discuss issues like these that are literally life and death and sometimes they are simply very complex issues like sidewalks for our wheelchairs, voting booths so we can vote and things of this nature. Thank you for asking Stan and please continue praying for Terri, her family, Congress and President Bush. (I could just hug that man right now!!) With love in Christ. denise | ||
| Bmorgan Registered user Username: Bmorgan Post Number: 26 Registered: 7-2000 |
I stayed awake on Sunday night into Monday morning, pass 1:00am CST. I watched and followed the house debate the Terri Shriavo case. At times it was heart wrenching to listen. I am glad many politicians, especially the conservatives did the right thing, regardless. It concerns me that so many people especially the elites, have no problem starving a woman to death. The excuse, ""This is her wish" baffles me. I know the court system do not admit hear-say as evidence, yet at this time, people have no problem defending a questionable circumstance. Is this a "culture of death"? Are we less human if we are unborn, disadvantaged, or disabled?Wow! Thank God many people are enraged enough to become active. Thank God for President Bush! No matter how the media tries to spin or people accuse him, the evidences in his life speak loud enough. He is an honest man. You never have to second guess his actions. He is in private what he is in public. He supports life. Even if it would cost him his political life, I am more than convinced President Bush would sign that Bill. He values life. Just my two-cents bit in defense of Terri and President Bush. | ||
| Denisegilmore Registered user Username: Denisegilmore Post Number: 210 Registered: 10-2000 |
Hello Stan again, Unable to sleep, I thought to send these links for you and others to read and see why I make mention of politics and what I didn't mention--bigotry: http://www.raggededgemagazine.com/focus/incapacitated032005.html http://www.raggededgemagazine.com/life/zengarciaGAsvcs0305.html http://www.raggededgemagazine.com/extra/cleighbetterdead1003.html and the main site with many of our issues including one of my own articles in the archives: http://www.ragged-edge-mag.com/ And here's one to look at, read over and wonder what direction the United States of America is heading if this Judge doesn't allow her feeding tube to be placed back and the implications of where that will lead. And if we are at all protected when history begins to repeat itself as it has been doing by chipping away at the ADA for some time now. All the way to this years movie awards with Million Dollar Baby being nominated for several awards. It certainly shows how the American Public thinks and believes---still. You may also find it interesting to find names like Kellogg come up in this last link. http://www.eugenicsarchive.org/eugenics/ Just thoughts to ponder for most but we in the disability community don't just ponder them in passing. That's our reality. I pray that you will read these and go through the archives of the main site of Not Dead Yet (link above in my second post) and also the main pages and archives of the other two sites listed, namely, for now, Ragged Edge and Eugenics Archive (both linked in this post). With love in Christ. denise | ||
| Praisegod Registered user Username: Praisegod Post Number: 269 Registered: 3-2004  |
While Iíve not followed the Terri Schiavo case very closely, there were a couple of points I found interesting: 1) The judge is a member of a huge church in his town (I believe itís Southern Baptist) and because members had approached him that his actions are wrong, he is now refusing to even attend church. We need to pray for this man as itís a horrible position to be in regardless of your personal beliefs. 2) I heard a criticism of President Bush the other day that he spent time each day praying over issues alone! That instead of only doing what his advisors wanted. Praise God... | ||
| Denisegilmore Registered user Username: Denisegilmore Post Number: 211 Registered: 10-2000 |
BMorgan, When I posted, I didn't see your post, forgive me. You are right about the excuse "this is her wish" and the hear-say evidence. Amazing isn't it? Just where did they get that idea...hmmmm, let's think about this. You are right, Michael Schiavo only. And that is only hear-say as you have so stated. And like you, President Bush did indeed do a good thing. This is a great change considering what we've been up against. However, it's not clear to me why he signed this bill as I've mentioned above to Stan. Still, the idea that the President of the United States signed this sure gave me a moment of hope. Hopefully the President will now press for this to be put into law for ALL cases, not just Terri's, as he has made "executive orders" in other areas without any consent from Judges nor the House. However, if he can command "executive orders" for this and that, then surely he could stop the killing off of hundreds of thousands who are disabled. This stems into this new Social Security reform that he wants passed. We, in the disability community are terribly affected by that as everybody is thinking "elderly people" without considering the disabled, the yet to be disabled and the dependents of the disabled. We are in a fund that is completely different from what I understand. We need to especially think about this since many of our men and women coming back from Iraq and other areas are--disabled and unable to work. Many of them have children that depended on them and this is no small matter. Another matter was the cut in many programs. Many of these programs are for the disabled and yes the elderly and children. All three groups are more vulnerable than any other group of people. Let's pray that President Bush will speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves and to implement changes that do protect the downtrodden. There's ample Scripture for him, as a Christian he claims to be, to override man-made dictate. Besides, our founding fathers even based the Constitution on Biblical precepts. This Church and State separation was never and is not in the Constitution. You won't find it there. That idea is a myth that came from a letter from President Lincoln to a man who had written him on an entirely differ matter. But it's not in the Constitution of the United States. Government was to be ruled By the People, For the People. Not the other way around. This means ALL forms of government. So if enough people were to vote on something, providing it was put into Congress for a vote, then it would pass. However, in todays world many things you and I do not have a say in nor a chance to know about most of them. It's done behind our backs. Like the last three Superior Court Judges put into office by Bush. I didn't vote any in, did you? Did anybody?? Did we even have the chance to vote? Just a few thoughts. I'll have to dig into my files to give you links. Who knows, perhaps I'm mistaken and read them wrong. This has happened before with me. I've never claimed to be infallible--yipes!! So, if you would like, I'll supply the evidence. May God Bless you for stepping up and speaking! If more people had compassion as yourself and Stan then we wouldn't be witnessing atrocities that are happening on our television sets. It's a sad day when our "law" can "de-hydrate and starve" someone to death. Someone who is innocent of all crime and who is the most vulnerable. Again, let's pray that things will begin to turn around for the good. We can pray, pray some more, send letters to Congressman/women, to Senators and others...anything like those are good things rather than a do nothing "let them die" attitude. I know there will be those that will post on here that a Christians place is not to get involved in politics and if that's the case, then for those that say such a thing--Don't Vote. If we don't get involved then who is left to vote on issues such as Roe vs Wade? et al? Again, I stress praying, praying some more, keep on praying and speaking up, writing letters, voting, speaking some more, writing more letters and more voting. In other words--get involved if you care about such issues such as these. Did you see the post I sent to Stan? It has some links that I believe you will find interesting and maddening. If you are like me, you will pray like crazy and start those letters. Blessings and more blessings to you BMorgan! Love to you in Christ. denise | ||
| Denisegilmore Registered user Username: Denisegilmore Post Number: 212 Registered: 10-2000 |
PraiseGod, You are very right, we really do need to put our prayers up for the Judge. And who would guess that people would criticize the President for praying?? Sheesh! This world is a crazy one but as Christians we all know how we too get criticized by those who are not Christian. Bush is not any different and it's a good thing when he sticks to his faith rather than listen to those who are criticizing his praying! Now, don't get me wrong anybody--I'm not a Bush fan. However, I do give credit where credit is due because that's only right. And what Bush did by signing this to go to the other court is a good thing no-matter what anyone may think. As I've stated before, he'd get a hug out of me! Even if this was politically motivated. Because although I frown on most of what Bush is trying and is doing to our country, what he has done in this case of Terri Schiavo may save her life. Let's pray it does and also pray for that Judge to err on the side of life and also allow Terri to have some rehabilitation! And a new guardian...NOT her husband. Thank you Praise God for speaking out! I'm with you in prayer. Blessings to your household! Denise | ||
| Denisegilmore Registered user Username: Denisegilmore Post Number: 213 Registered: 10-2000 |
BMorgan, I meant to comment on this line of yours: "I know the court system do not admit hear-say as evidence, yet at this time, people have no problem defending a questionable circumstance." It's called "bigotry." Love in Christ. denise | ||
| Denisegilmore Registered user Username: Denisegilmore Post Number: 214 Registered: 10-2000 |
Let us all pray for the Judge to hold up under heavy attack that he is getting! Also for the President, and all the law-makers involved in this case. That they do the will of God and not their own will. And especially pray too for the Schindlers as you can imagine what this has put them through. (Terri's maiden name). In Christ. denise | ||
| Lisa_boyldavis Registered user Username: Lisa_boyldavis Post Number: 16 Registered: 3-2005 |
Well, this is a black day for America. I pray to God that the appeal is given some consideration, I mean a REAL hearing, looking at ALL ASPECTS of this case including the fact that she's been moved out of rehab facilities by her "husband" every time the facility suggests rehab. I'm just sick at what this woman is going through. Lisa | ||
| Denisegilmore Registered user Username: Denisegilmore Post Number: 215 Registered: 10-2000 |
Here's a statement from President Bush back in 2001: http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/06/20010619-1.html | ||
| Denisegilmore Registered user Username: Denisegilmore Post Number: 216 Registered: 10-2000 |
"Well, this is a black day for America" It is indeed. | ||
| Goldenbear Registered user Username: Goldenbear Post Number: 78 Registered: 12-2004 |
Not to detract from the discussion, but to point out something to be learned from this struggle. All of this would be a mute point if Terri had created an Advance Directive or Living Will. The fact that she didn't puts the decision in the hands of her husband. What I see down the road may be a requirement for all parties to create living wills as a precursor to gaining insurance coverage, or signing up for public assistance. The other interesting fact that was lost on me for a while is that Terri is in a hospice home. This means that a physician determined that whether with a feeding tube or not her prognosis for life did not exceed beyond 6 months if her disease progressed as expected, according to our hospice organization that works at our hospital. | ||
| Seekr777 Registered user Username: Seekr777 Post Number: 96 Registered: 1-2003  |
I'm not sure but I think the hospice care was a referrence to her care after the feeding tube was removed. If it is then we all know she does not have 6 months to live with no fluids or food.  Richard | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 223 Registered: 7-2004  |
I'm certain I've read in the news several times that Terri was moved to hospice specifically because of her feeding tube being removed. It even said in the news her parents had the hospital on standby in case they could get a judge to let a tube be put back in. I took that to mean she would go back to the hospital if/when a feeding tube would be allowed. I agree with Goldenbear, that it is very important to have written directives ahead of time to save all the hassle and fights such a decision causes. It wasn't that many years ago that such a fiasco wouldn't even be possible, because there once was no such thing as tube feeding. Without written directives, I don't think anyone (husband included) has a leg to stand on about what Terri's "wishes" are. If her wishes were not clearly written out ahead, then I think her life should be maintained and it's a shame that rehabilitation wasn't given much of a chance. What about other cases I've read about (at least 2 others) where a person was in a "persistent vegetative state" for decades, and suddenly woke up and became well-functioning. Doctors just don't know everything, and unless a person made a specific written request otherwise, I would hope life would be pursued. | ||
| Bb Registered user Username: Bb Post Number: 78 Registered: 7-2004 |
Did anyone see that nurse on Fox & Friends this morning? It was a totally different story. She cared for her in '95-'96 and said Terri could speak words like "mommy, hi, pain, etc. She did interact and the husband wouldn't let her have therapy. He also allegedly injected her with insulin to hasten the death...they asked if he ever questioned her condition, and she said "yes, he would say when is she going to die? When is that B@#$% going to die." It puts a different light on the situation, where in Florida is against the law to let your DOG starve to death! Very sad indeed. | ||
| Sabra Registered user Username: Sabra Post Number: 316 Registered: 10-2001 |
I do not know where I stand on this case. I'm thinking, if this woman lived in a less-developed country she would have died a long time ago. Are we playing God? If God wanted her here, wouldn't He have healed her by now? I'm not the parents, I can't say I wouldn't do the same thing if it were my own child, I just know that I would not want to live like that for 13 years. Any thoughts? | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 806 Registered: 7-2003  |
I agree, Sabra, in an idealistic thought, but when it comes down to the rubber meeting the road, it seems like caring for "the least of these". Yes, perhaps the ability to save her to begin with was playing God all those years ago, but she is where she is now, and it seems morally wrong to starve the woman to death. We do not have a way to communicate with her and though they say the portion of her brain that senses pain is damaged, it does bother me that we have no way to know if she would like to starve to death. I personally don't understand the husband's position. But I also know we don't get the full story from the media. They spin it to get viewers. I hardly think they are reporting objectively or the whole story. On Bush's motives...what political gain can he possibly gain? He can't be president another term. He can't get voted out for this case, certainly. It seems to me there is very little that can really be done to him politically because of this case, so it seems highly unlikely to me that he is taking an interest in his case for political reasons. He has been very open on his position against abortion, so it is not inconsistent with what we have seen from him in the past. Pondering the universality of this situation: If Terri had an advanced directive, and she had expressed in writing that she did not want to be maintained in this condition at all costs, including starvation, yet her parents protested anyway, would we be seeing the same coverage? Would her written wishes be honored regardless of her parent's protests? Is that a reason this is happening in other situations with no media coverage? And do people have the right to make those choices and then expect others to execute them later when they can't personally affirm them? Not providing extensive medical intervention is one thing...starvation at any juncture seems inhumane to me. I don't know that I have the fortitude to execute such an act, even if documented in a living will, etc. But that may just be me.... |
