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| Denisegilmore Registered user Username: Denisegilmore Post Number: 229 Registered: 10-2000 |
Harriet McBryde Johnson on Schiavo The following op-ed comes from The Washington Post, http://www.washingtonpost.com , as reprinted from Slate magazine, http://www.slate.com/ Overlooked in the Shadows By Harriet McBryde Johnson Friday, March 25, 2005; Page A19 The Washington Post The Terri Schiavo case is hard to write about, hard to think about. Those video images are hard to look at. I see that face, maybe smiling, maybe not, and I am reminded of a young woman I knew as a child, lying on a couch, brain- damaged, apparently unresponsive, and deeply beloved -- freakishly, perhaps, but genuinely so -- living proof of one family's no-matter-what commitment. I watch nourishment flowing into a slim tube that runs through a neat, round, surgically created orifice in Terri Schiavo's abdomen and I'm almost envious. What effortless intake! Because of a congenital neuromuscular disease, I am having trouble swallowing, and it's a constant struggle to get by mouth the calories my skinny body needs. For whatever reason, I'm still trying, but I know a tube is in my future. So, possibly, is speechlessness. That's a scary thought. If I couldn't speak for myself, would I want to die? If I become uncommunicative, a passive object of other people's care, should I hope my brain goes soft and leaves me in peace? My emotional response is powerful, but at bottom it's not important. It's no more important than anyone else's, not what matters. The things that ought to matter have become obscured in our communal clash of gut reactions. Here are 10 of them: * Ms. Schiavo is not terminally ill. She has lived in her current condition for 15 years. This is not about end-of- life decision making. The question is whether she should be killed by denying her food and fluids. * Ms. Schiavo is not dependent on life support. Her lungs, kidneys, heart and digestive systems work fine. Just as she uses a wheelchair for mobility, she uses a tube for eating and drinking. Feeding Ms. Schiavo is not difficult, painful or in any way heroic. That Ms. Schiavo eats through a tube should have nothing to do with whether she should live or die. * This is not a case about a patient's right to refuse treatment. I don't see eating and drinking as "treatment," but even if they are, everyone agrees that Ms. Schiavo is at present incapable of articulating a decision to refuse treatment. The question is who should make the decision for her and whether that substitute decision maker should be authorized to kill her. * There is a dispute as to Ms. Schiavo's awareness and consciousness. But if we assume that those who would authorize her death are correct, she is completely unaware of her situation and therefore incapable of suffering physically or emotionally. Her death thus can't be justified as relieving her suffering. * There is a genuine dispute as to what Ms. Schiavo believed and expressed about life with severe disability before she herself became incapacitated; certainly, she never stated her preferences in an advance directive such as a living will. If we assume that she is aware and conscious, it is possible that, like most people who have lived with a severe disability for as long as she has, she has abandoned her preconceived fears of the life she is now living. We have no idea whether she wishes to be bound by things she might have said when she was living a very different life. If we assume she is unaware and unconscious, we can't justify her death as her preference. She has no preference. * Ms. Schiavo, like all people, incapacitated or not, has a federal constitutional right not to be deprived of her life without due process of law. * In addition to the rights all people enjoy, Ms. Schiavo has a statutory right under the Americans With Disabilities Act not to be treated differently because of her disability. Obviously, Florida law would not allow a husband to kill a non-disabled wife by denying her nourishment. It is Ms. Schiavo's disability that makes her killing different in the eyes of the Florida courts. Because the state is overtly drawing lines based on disability, it has the burden under the ADA of justifying those lines. * In other contexts, federal courts are available to make sure state courts respect federally protected rights. Although review will very often be a futile, last-ditch effort -- as with most habeas petitions from death row -- federalism requires that the federal government, not the states, have the last word. When the issue is the scope of a guardian's authority, it is necessary to allow other people, in this case other family members, standing to file a legal challenge. * The whole society has a stake in making sure state courts are not tainted by prejudices, myths and unfounded fears -- like the unthinking horror in mainstream society that transforms feeding tubes into fetish objects, emblematic of broader, deeper fears of disability that sometimes slide from fear to disgust and from disgust to hatred. While we should not assume that disability prejudice tainted the Florida courts, we cannot reasonably assume that it did not. * Despite the unseemly Palm Sunday pontificating in Congress, the legislation enabling Ms. Schiavo's parents to sue did not reflect a taking of sides in the so-called culture wars. It did not dictate that Ms. Schiavo be fed. It simply created a procedure whereby the federal courts could decide whether her federally protected rights have been violated. In the Senate, a key supporter of a federal remedy was Iowa's Tom Harkin, a progressive Democrat and longtime friend of labor and civil rights, including disability rights. Harkin told reporters, "There are a lot of people in the shadows, all over this country, who are incapacitated because of a disability, and many times there is no one to speak for them, and it is hard to determine what their wishes really are or were. So I think there ought to be a broader type of a proceeding that would apply to people in similar circumstances who are incapacitated." I hope against hope that I will never be one of those people in the shadows, that I will always, one way or another, be able to make my wishes known. I hope that I will not outlive my usefulness or my capacity (at least occasionally) to amuse the people around me. But if it happens otherwise, I hope whoever is appointed to speak for me will be subject to legal constraints. Even if my guardian thinks I'd be better off dead -- even if I think so myself -- I hope to live and die in a world that recognizes that killing, even of people with the most severe disabilities, is a matter of more than private concern. Clearly, Congress's Palm Sunday legislation was not the broader type of proceeding Harkin and I want. It does not define when and how federal court review will be available to all of those in the shadows. To create a general system of review, applicable whenever life-and-death decisions intersect with disability rights, will require a reasoned, informed debate unlike what we've had until now. It will take time. But in the Schiavo case, time is running out. The writer is a disability rights lawyer in Charleston, S.C. Her memoir in stories, "Too Late to Die Young: Nearly True Tales From a Life," will be released next month. This article is reprinted from Slate magazine. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A64571-2005Mar24.html | ||
| Sabra Registered user Username: Sabra Post Number: 317 Registered: 10-2001 |
Denise, I'm sorry I haven't checked in for a couple of days, I wasn't ignoring you. Of course I do not know the full story or the extent of this woman's condition. My understanding is that she is not disabled, but inabled, in fact, brain dead, unaware of her surroundings and unconscious, a body with the spirit gone. Do we keep that body alive forever with no soul attached to it? I don't know. I'm not sure what the correct action is. I don't know what God would have us to do. I'm certainly glad that it is not up to me and I'm glad that ultimately God is in control and her days are numbered and if He is ready for her to go, she will go. I feel horrible for her family, I can't imagine what they are going through after caring for her for all of these years. I'm sure they will just be lost without her. But are they keeping her alive for her or them? Has anyone said that she is even conscious? I've heard otherwise. My personal conviction is that I would absolutely not want to live for 13 years with a tube sustaining me and I would not want my family to have to go through any of that. A thinking, conscious person such as Christopher Reeve is another story all together, that person has a mind, will and emotions still functioning, as far as I can determine from what little information we are getting in the media, Terry has none of that. My pastor is strongly opposed to all of this. He has a message planned for the next couple of weeks entitled, "The Murder of Terry Schiavo" I'm 100% in support of him and his thoughts on the matter and he has researched it much more than I. Sorry if I offended anyone. Sometimes I just wonder if we let "nature" take it's course, if we wouldn't have so many man-made lives here. I'm not talking so much about Terry, but what about all of the multiple births, people with 8 kids they can't take care of because they took some man-made fertility pill, or cloned animals that look like our dead ones, or who knows, maybe we can get some DNA from a lost love one and make a new one. Where does it end? If I can't feed myself or think or contribute anything but pain to those around me, please, let me go home. There is my living will, so if anyone asks..... Sabra | ||
| 4drian Registered user Username: 4drian Post Number: 57 Registered: 11-2004 |
!!!disclaimer!!! -This is my personal opinion and since everybody else has stated theirs, I wish to state mine. I would ask you to at least consider what I have to say. Thanks. !!!end disclaimer!!! Sabra, You have a correct understanding of the situation. Many Christians have been exploited by the Schiavo family and its sad to see so many people being taken in. I don't know what's wrong with the Schiavos but the bottom line is their daughter is DEAD. She is not disabled, she is not in a coma, she is in a persistent vegetative state (i.e. DEAD). Forcibly keeping a body alive after the mind is gone is both cruel and immoral. They have been allowed to do this for way too long. I, for one, have told everybody I know that I never want to be kept "alive" if, God forbid, I ever end up like that. Here's a picture of Terri's brain in 2000: http://www.miami.edu/ethics2/schiavo/CT%20scan.png From what I understand, all the white areas are completely atrophied and filled with spinal fluid. Furthermore, the current condition is much worse than it was in 2000. There are no neurons left in Terri's brain. It's just a skull filled with spinal fluid. Here are some other links: http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/infopage.html http://abstractappeal.com/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terri_Schiavo http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terri_Schiavo#Medical_opinions http://www.miami.edu/ethics2/schiavo/timeline.htm http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0324brain-damaged-excerpts24-ON.html http://www.christiansciencemonitor.com/2005/0325/p01s04-wogi.html http://edition.cnn.com/2005/HEALTH/03/25/schiavo.doctors.ap/ | ||
| Foreverscout Registered user Username: Foreverscout Post Number: 15 Registered: 3-2005 |
This is from one of your websites: "The only reason there is sensible legislation in the Netherlands and Belgium is because the medical profession has been supportive," he adds. Sensible you think? I'm not sure it's even supported. Read this, it was in my newspaper March 7th. >Attempting to prod the government of the Netherlands to weigh in on an ongoing battle over expanding euthanasia, a group of senior Dutch doctors has reported itself to prosecutors for having "killed" 20 newborns. Dutch justice ministry officials had no comment last week on whether there would be any legal action in the cases. The doctors hope their move will prompt parliament to recognize officially that doctors have been euthanizing critically ill children beyond what Dutch law allows.< >In the Netherlands, Bert Dorenbos, chairman of Cry for Life, which opposes euthanasia, genetic engineering and abortion, fears that the parents of disabled children will soon be subjected to public ridicule and anger for not choosing euthanasia. "Listen, nobody likes for children to suffer," he said. "But the fact that this movement now even exists suggests we are moving in the wrong direction, away from treatment."< Whole article is at: http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20050307/news_1n7dutch.html Every site given above is right-to-die. I would no sooner ask a pro-euthanasia or right-to-die doctor for healthcare advice than I would ask a demon for advice on my salvation. And on that story written above. My first child was born with the umbilical cord around his neck three times and not breathing. He was resuscitated. Afterwards he was in NICU with a fever and fluid in his lungs, the doctors were not sure he would live. He lived anyway. One month later I found out that he had a left-sided hemihypertrophy and would have to be scanned for tumors every six months. When he was two I found a hemangioma on his left arm and the doctor said that he now had Klippel-Tranauney-Weber Syndrome instead. The thing is, this baby is now 22yrs old and still strong & healthy, the slight hemihypertrophy goes mostly unnoticed. The hemangiomas come and then fade away. He was blessed with a mild case. We did recently find out that he has a venous-angioma in his left brain. It probably means nothing, even shows up in the normal population. He is only at a very very minimally increased risk for a brain bleed. It doesn't stop him from working, or going to college or even mountain-biking! 20, 50 or maybe 100 years from now, some laws are changed, would my son be allowed to live? Those tumor scans for two years, of his liver, kidneys and adrenal glands, couldn't have been cheap, and I was a single mom on welfare at the time. And then with the KTW diagnosis? Google KT sometime, we have a website. We are starting down a very slippery slope. My husband can no longer work due to a stroke and cardiomyopathy, we just started receiving his social security after waiting nearly two years. How long will it be until the doctors and goverment decide that he is no longer a productive, (read tax-paying), member of society. Am I an alarmist? I don't think so. Who did Hitler start killing first? The old and the disabled. I will thank God for my life by fighting for other's lives. | ||
| Denisegilmore Registered user Username: Denisegilmore Post Number: 230 Registered: 10-2000 |
4drian, There is a vast difference between coma, persistant vegetative state, minimally conscious state and brain death. Here's an expert in the field, infact many experts in this field to tell you of the differences. Please read: http://hyscience.typepad.com/hyscience/2005/02/misdiagnosis_of.html http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/313/7048/13 http://www.terrisfight.net/ <~~see video also http://neurology.org/cgi/content/full/58/3/349 Those are just a sampling of links from which you could learn a great deal. Also, speaking as one who can tell you from first hand experience....I do believe my knowledge in this area may well outdo your knowledge. No disclaimer from me. However it is my prayer that you do have an open mind and read the "experts" of which you are not. Peace to you and calm down. This is an area that many could argue but that would do us no good. Only "facts" lay this case straight. In Christ. denise | ||
| Denisegilmore Registered user Username: Denisegilmore Post Number: 231 Registered: 10-2000 |
Hi Sabra, I'm glad you're back on this thread. It appears that many have a great mis-understanding into the facts about Terri Schiavo. That's our media for you. That and the fact that people refuse to take the time to actually read the data from both sides. One the one side, Michael Schiavos, you have one neurologist that differs from 30 other neurologists that are not allowed on the stand to testify. I'm hoping you too will read some of those links I've given to 4drian and actually read them. Watch the video of Terri--and this isn't counting the videos the court would not allow the Schindlers to publish. Terri is not dead, not vegetative, not comatose, not minimally conscious but very cognizant of what is transpiring around her and she feels emotions, physical pain and now unfortunately the dying process by a very slow torturous death. If she were brain dead, she wouldn't be laughing, nor crying, nor showing pain inflicted by a doctor to her, nor the anger she felt when that same doctor tried to approach her once again--dead people can't do those things. If she were dead, then dead is dead. Why keep a dead body on machines to keep that body going when the person is dead right? But see, Terri is not on any machines and is breathing on her own, her internal organs work, her bladder/bowel functions works, her emotions work, she can eat and swallow, etc. etc. etc. ....Dead people cannot do these things. She is not dead and is being murdered. Plain and simple. Again, please read the links others have supplied, that I've supplied, and type into google Terri Schiavo and you will get a wealth of information. With love to you in Christ Jesus. Denise P.S. Sabra, it's late so this was a short post but I am really glad you came back to this thread...love you in Christ! See you tomorrow or later today. | ||
| Denisegilmore Registered user Username: Denisegilmore Post Number: 232 Registered: 10-2000 |
Diana, Perfect Link!! Now that was some of the evidence I was also going to bring forth but you have it all in one link. Thank you! And is that something terrible how they are so corrupt? What amazes me is that people, Christians too, cannot seem to find anything wrong with that picture. Like their eyes are blinded. It's painfully obvious that this entire terrible tragedy is full of corruption. God Bless you for that link and your great mind for gracing this thread with your heart. Blessings to you in Christ our Lord--The King of Kings! Jesus. denise | ||
| Denisegilmore Registered user Username: Denisegilmore Post Number: 233 Registered: 10-2000 |
Foreverscout, You stated and asked: "I pray, he answers. Have you ever had that?" Absolutely! Every single day. You are not crazy. Let them think you crazy and if so let them know you are crazy for Christ Jesus. That's what I do. God Bless you and keep that close walk with Him. That was a good letter to Bush! Keep them up and let's keep praying that perhaps God will put mercy into him. Who knows? Right? This too is a short post to you but just wanted to keep in touch as I've posted 3 or 4 and it's late but wanted to make contact with those that have replies. Later today or tonight I'll be back as I've more evidence to present and more knowledge into this arena than anyone else I know on this forum. Not bragging unless it's in God Almighty Himself for bringing me back around so people do know I'm alive. Love to you in our Lord Jesus the Christ. denise | ||
| Denisegilmore Registered user Username: Denisegilmore Post Number: 234 Registered: 10-2000 |
Pamela, I just saw this and couldn't help chuckling at the way you put that...perfect! Thank you. It was this statement: "I would no sooner ask a pro-euthanasia or right-to-die doctor for healthcare advice than I would ask a demon for advice on my salvation." Later I'll comment on his links or her links and also your post, Colleens and Tisha's posts ...well at least these are my plans later today. God Bless you. Denise | ||
| Denisegilmore Registered user Username: Denisegilmore Post Number: 235 Registered: 10-2000 |
More links: http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGBHQF8L45E.html http://www.cstnews.com/Code/Euthanas.html http://www.raggededgemagazine.com/life/passionplayshrode.html http://www.ushmm.org/museum/exhibit/online/deadlymedicine/ http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/printer-friendly.asp?ARTICLE_ID=43467 http://www.normemma.com/areut_bioethics.htm http://www.notdeadyet.org/eughis.html http://www.notdeadyet.org/docs/weloveourtubes032605.html http://www.nobeliefs.com/nazis.htm http://www.birf.info/mz/Sindex.html http://society.guardian.co.uk/health/story/0,7890,1308522,00.html " The chief counsel of the Thomas More Law Center of Ann Arbor, Mich., former prosecutor of Jack Kevorkian, has reaffirmed the authority of Florida Governor Jeb Bush to utilize state criminal laws to prevent the death of Terri Schiavo." read more here: http://theempirejournal.com/ http://society.guardian.co.uk/health/story/0,7890,1308519,00.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/invisible/ http://www.4woman.gov/wwd/wwd.cfm?page=24 http://www.sickofdoctors.addr.com/articles/dr_jekyll_hyde.htm http://www.spinalcord.org/news.php?dep=1&page=0&list=281 http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0222-22.htm http://www.eugenicsarchive.org/eugenics/ http://www.raggededgemagazine.com/extra/singernh1001.htm ------------------------------------------------- Christian Medical Expert Disputes Secular Views in Schiavo Case By Jeff Johnson CNSNews.com Congressional Bureau Chief October 17, 2003 (Editors Note: The following report contains a detailed description of death by dehydration that may be unsettling to some readers.) (CNSNews.com) - Supporters of both euthanasia and the so-called "right to die" are being criticized for allegedly capitalizing on the case of Teri Schindler Schiavo to benefit their own cause. Schiavo is the disabled Florida woman whose feeding tube was removed under court order Wednesday at the request of her husband and over the objections of her other family members. While some commentators have dismissed the attempts to save Terri's life, one medical ethics expert said the medical community's decision to participate in the actions meant to end Terri's life is what deserves the criticism. The CBS Morning News featured medical ethicist Joseph Fins during its report Thursday. He echoed the claims made by Terri's husband, Michael Schiavo, his attorneys and doctors that Terri is essentially brain-dead. "And she is in a chronic and permanent vegetative state," Fins said, "and our science indicates that, that is not a state from which one recovers." No mention was made in the report of more than a dozen medical experts, including neurologists, who have submitted affidavits on behalf of the Schindler family, including Terri's parents, indicating that the woman is consciously attempting to interact with her environment and is a good candidate for therapy. Marc Spindelman, an Ohio State University law professor and "expert on death issues," according to the Miami Bureau of the Washington Post, said the case has larger ramifications than just Terri's so-called "right to die." "This case really raises in a stark form questions about quality of life, that is to say, when a life is and is not worth living anymore," Spindelman said. Bill Allen, professor of bioethics law at the University of Florida, told the Orlando Sentinel that "the Schindlers were allowed to abuse the legal system in their quest to keep their daughter alive." Allen said the Schindlers' lawyer, who filed successive appeals in every court available, "did a magnificent job of gumming up the works." The "removal of feeding tubes is a common practice," according to Kenneth Goodman, director of bioethics at the University of Miami School of Medicine and a co-director of the Florida Bioethics Network. He told the Tampa Tribune that there is no pain involved in dying of dehydration and/or starvation. "Soon after nourishment is denied to the brain, it begins producing chemicals that act as a natural anesthetic," the Tribune paraphrased Goodman as telling a reporter. He directly disputed claims that Terri will suffer as a result of her lack of sustenance. "She is not going to feel a thing," Goodman said of Terri. "The artificial pain medication that Schiavo will receive is to make sure that if there is [pain], it is adequately handled." But at least one Christian ethicist disputes much of what these alleged experts have stated. Dr. David Stevens, a medical doctor who also has a masters degree in bioethics, serves as executive director of the Christian Medical and Dental Associations. He began a conversation with CNSNews.com Wednesday, addressing the claim that Terri was in a "persistent vegetative state." "The sad thing about this situation is, she's not in a persistent vegetative state...even though that's [how she's] been labeled and that's the law they're using," Stevens argued. "Persistent vegetative state says you're totally unable to react with your environment in any way. All you've got to do is see the pictures of her on the Internet to realize she's reacting with her environment," Stevens added. "What we have is a severely disabled woman who, her husband wants her dead. And this will do it, what they're going about right now, unfortunately." Contrary to Spindleman's claim that the case revolves around "quality of life" issues, Stevens believes the debate over whether a terminally ill person should be allowed to refuse treatment has nothing to do with Terri's situation. "In this situation, what they're doing is, the intent is to make her dead," said Stevens. "The intent is not to get rid of a burdensome intervention." Stevens explained that, even when terminally ill patients near death refuse fluids or food, medical practitioners are obliged to at least offer it to the patient. "If not, it's tantamount to murder. Because what you're trying to do is kill her, you're not trying to relieve her of a burdensome treatment," Stevens said. "Giving her fluids and nutrition by mouth is not a burdensome treatment. It never has been defined in medical care and never will be, I hope, defined that way except, perhaps, by this judge." The hospice and its staff who participate in Terri's dehydration and starvation could face civil or criminal liability, in Stevens' opinion. "There's complicity here in taking someone's life, if you believe in the principle of 'do no harm' and beneficence. In no way or stretch of the imagination can you say this is beneficent," Stevens said. "Drinking and eating by mouth is not a burdensome intervention. That is just humanity. It's just unbelievable that they've gone that far. "That's like telling a parent that they have the right to decide whether their child is going to get food and water. If you don't want to give it to them, that's fine?" Stevens asked. "We would be screaming our heads off if that was going on, and yet, this woman is more helpless than many children." Doctor describes process of dehydration "What will probably kill Terri is dehydration because it's much quicker than starvation," Stevens said. "To starve to death takes eight to 12 weeks. You can die of dehydration in anywhere from three to five days to two weeks." Stevens said the amount of fluids in Terri's system when her gastrostomy or "feeding tube" was removed and whether she receives any fluids by mouth will determine how long she lives. Initial effects of the lack of hydration will include: Extreme thirst; Nausea and cramping; Dry skin, becoming wrinkled as fluids are drawn from the skin to hydrate the organs. "She's likely to become dizzy and begin to have cramping in her arms and legs. That's because her electrolytes, her sodium, potassium and other electrolytes in her blood start getting out of whack because of lack of fluids." Terri's body will experience other effects due to the forced dehydration that many might not have been considered. "She'll see decreased secretions. If she tries to cry, she won't be able to make tears very well, if at all," Stevens said. "Her mouth will become dry and saliva thick. You can have cracking of the [mucous membranes] of the mouth and lips as they dry out." Those external symptoms of dehydration are accompanied by internal effects, as well. "People often get headaches, then [become] lethargic and finally go into coma," Stevens continued. "It actually can cause seizures. "As it progressively gets worse, what happens [are] the physical signs. Her blood pressure will drop, her heart rate will pick up. She'll actually, ultimately go into shock," Stevens explained. "You just don't have enough fluid to keep your blood pressure up, and it drops so low, and that sometimes can be a terminal event, or an arrhythmia of her heart. "Her blood will get thicker," Stevens continued. "Sometimes, people who are severely dehydrated will actually have strokes just because the blood gets so thick that it clots. It's not a pretty picture." Which of these symptoms Terri experiences and to what degree will depend on whether the hospice staff makes any attempt to hydrate her by mouth and whether she is offered any pain medication. "If they sedate her, she could be semi-conscious or unconscious while this is going on," Stevens said. "It's not a very pleasant experience, unlike what the Hemlock Society and other groups try to make you believe." Stevens explained that he had "had a little bit of experience" in this particular field "since I worked in Africa for 11 years with severely dehydrated people, especially kids." Starvation, Stevens said, is not really an issue for Terri. "It's a long process that, depending on what condition people are in when it begins, determines how long it's going to take," Stevens said. "But if you're not getting fluids, it's academic interest. Before you starve to death, you'll die of dehydration." Case has ramifications for pro-life movement Tony Perkins, the new president of the Family Research Council, issued a statement Thursday citing the significance of Terri's case to the pro-life movement. "Yesterday was truly a turning point in our battle against judicial tyranny, as Terri Schiavo became the victim of what can only be described as court-mandated euthanasia," Perkins said. "If Terri is permitted to starve to death simply because a court ordered it to occur, we will have not only allowed this woman to perish, we will have endangered the lives of virtually every American who is deemed to be too great a burden on our society and who cannot speak for themselves," Perkins added. "In this post-Roe v. Wade culture, the idea of 'choice' has been elevated to the extent that from the unborn to the disabled, there's seemingly always someone who is empowered to 'choose' that another person's life is no longer valuable," Perkins concluded. | ||
| Denisegilmore Registered user Username: Denisegilmore Post Number: 236 Registered: 10-2000 |
http://www.raggededgemagazine.com/0799/b799ps.htm "ìI believe that, within a reasonable degree of medical certainty, there is a greater likelihood that Terri is in a minimally conscious state than a persistent vegetative state,î wrote William P. Cheshire Jr., after the board certified neurologist recently visited the severely brain-damaged woman for 90 minutes and examined her medical records. ìThis distinction makes an enormous difference in making ethical decisions on Terriís behalf. If Terri is sufficiently aware of her surroundings that she can feel pleasure and suffer, if she is capable of understanding to some degree how she is being treated, then in my judgment it would be wrong to bring about her death by withdrawing food and water.î Read the full story here: http://www.floridabaptistwitness.com/4078.article In Christ. denise | ||
| Foreverscout Registered user Username: Foreverscout Post Number: 16 Registered: 3-2005 |
Hi Denise, I don't have time to look at all your sites today but I want to thank you for all the time you are taking to research and write it out for everyone. You are amazing, I hope you were able to get some sleep though, don't tire yourself out. Thank you for confirming that I am not crazy. I'm not sure that everyone here agrees, but that's ok because I know that I'm whole. I knew the starvation process was not the wonderland the euthanasia people painted it to be, I knew it to be a cruel process; but I really have to thank you for the article you've shown us. It's graphic, it's ugly and exactly what we need to see. If people can not see from this, just what a load of liars these right-to-die people are, then they are obviously choosing to deceive themselves. Hope you have a wonderful, joyful and peaceful HOLY DAY! HE IS RISEN! Foreverscout | ||
| Sabra Registered user Username: Sabra Post Number: 318 Registered: 10-2001 |
Denise, If she is in fact, alive, then I think the parents should have full custody of her and do whatever they wish. It appears that all of the photos and videos of her are very old and there are no new ones. Again, I'm glad I'm not the judge, I would err on the side of life I'm sure. Blessings to you, sister! Happy Ressurrection day!! Maybe God will raise her up whole and show Who is really in control! | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1751 Registered: 11-2002 |
Do you remember several years ago down near the Southeran Ca. boarder with Az. was an Indian lady who came out of the coma after many years? I think I remember she lived at one of the reservations over there. After like 20 years or so she came out if it. She was sent to LLU for quite awhile because of some rehab needs, etc. I read not long ago that she is in a nursing home, getting the rehab she needs, she has extablished a relationshp with those who over her and although she can't live on her own she is doing very well. It was/is an amazing story. Strange things do happen to those we east expect it to. My heart sure goes out to the Schindler family. That husband of hers is no more than a murderer. | ||
| Denisegilmore Registered user Username: Denisegilmore Post Number: 237 Registered: 10-2000 |
Susan, I do remember her but do not have the article..darn! But I believe she was in a coma for 22 years prior to coming out. Now here's one if you haven't already opened the link above. This just happened last month and although Terri is not in a coma, this does present to us just how little we know of the human spirit and the human brain: http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGBHQF8L45E.html Praise God for such things as this lady--it sure shows us what we don't know, huh? May God Bless you Susan, you and your household. In Jesus Christ Name. this i pray for you. AMEN. Your sister in the Risen Christ, our Lord Jesus. denise | ||
| Denisegilmore Registered user Username: Denisegilmore Post Number: 238 Registered: 10-2000 |
Sweet Sabra, I'm with you on wishing Terri's parents could have custody--we all are in the disability nation, believe me. Mr. and Mrs. Schindler did try for that and was turned down. And Sabra, I believe you when you say you would err on the side of life. Your heart has been read by me for a few years now and May God Bless such a heart as yours! When you said this: " Maybe God will raise her up whole and show Who is really in control!" I started crying over here. Wouldn't that be the most blessed thing that could happen! As to those videos, they are only 2 years old--if that. And one of the neurologists above saw her just this week and KNEW for a certainty that Terri could be rehabilitated. Let's keep praying. And Happy Resurrection Day to you and your household also! He is Risen indeed--NOMATTER WHAT. Hallelu-YAH! With love in Christ our Lord Jesus. denise | ||
| Denisegilmore Registered user Username: Denisegilmore Post Number: 239 Registered: 10-2000 |
Dear Foreverscout, You are not crazy whatsoever. And if you are, it's for the Lord--This I can tell! Yes, you are very whole and praise God for that! Isn't He so very good to us? I'm so very thankful that you began posting more and standing for what you believe that my heart is overjoyed at meeting you. God is so very good to me that my heart shouts praises, sings, worships and cries for happy and loves being His child! As to the sleep---ahem---I haven't slept but a few hours since they pulled Terri's plug. So if my posts are a bit scrambled (which they can be anyway with me!), then know that lack of sleep is part of the reason. My prayer is that you and your husband have a most beautiful Holy Day today also. In Jesus the Messiah's Name. This is my prayer for your household. Amen. In Christ. denise, your sister. | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1753 Registered: 11-2002 |
Logic just tends to tell me that when Terri's husband established a relationship with his girlfriend, even having two children with her that although he did not sever the marital union with a divorce, he did sever that marriage. At that time I just can't understand how come family court didn't intervene and declair that he was not acting as a husband and grant the divorce that her parents had requested. He has not acted married for years. He has not acted with Terri's best interes in his heart for years. The man truly strikes me as reeking with evil. I have been watching the tv about that situtation nearly all day. The husband didn't even want her to have Communion today. All the priest was able to give her was one drop of wine. Her mouth was too dry to receive the Host. I felt a peace in that she received Communion. But, the situtation she received it under is very tragic. You now, a govenor can intervene to stop an exacution at the state prison. Yet, they are saying there is nothing Govenor Bush or President Bush can do to stop Terri from being exacuted through starvation and thurst. Something is very skewed, very wrong here! And, to think that both Bush brothers ran on a pro-life stance to get votes. It's really gotten me to give some consideration to their sincerity about being pro-life. | ||
| Denisegilmore Registered user Username: Denisegilmore Post Number: 240 Registered: 10-2000 |
Dear Susan, THANK YOU for speaking the most obvious in these words: "You now, a govenor can intervene to stop an exacution at the state prison. Yet, they are saying there is nothing Govenor Bush or President Bush can do to stop Terri from being exacuted through starvation and thurst. Something is very skewed, very wrong here!" Now here is a link that will shed some light on why this hasn't happened that way: http://abstractappeal.com/ And this link below will give full coverage through the years on Terri Schiavo. With an exception of course to other articles, some by attorneys that I could post here but will not at this time. So enjoy this link: http://www.inclusiondaily.com/news/advocacy/schiavo01.htm May God you and your entire household Susan. In Christ Jesus Name. This i pray for you. Amen. denise | ||
| Denisegilmore Registered user Username: Denisegilmore Post Number: 241 Registered: 10-2000 |
UPDATE ON THE SCHIAVO CASE: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7293186/ |
