| Author | Message | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 260 Registered: 7-2004 |
Yes, Jeremy, I saw that. Most of our freedom in Christ comes as a result of the teachings of Paul, who received that word directly from the Saviour. When you are locked into a viewpoint that has no freedom, you really resent those who are laughing and dancing and saying they have the exact same inheritance you say you want and are working for. They have it now. You want it, but aren't sure you will ever experience it. See what I mean. No wonder he would like to make Paul go away or change his tune. Aren't you grateful that you are not living day-to-day with the Time of Trouble hanging over your head like the sword of Damoclese? These poor souls, some of them have never really drawn a cleansing breath! They have never felt secure enough around Jesus to throw their weight on him. Come on, you and me, let's climb into the wheelbarrow and see the Niagra Falls from a new perspective--up close and personal! Belva (For those who haven't read the post made by Truth Seeker where he quoted a passage from Sabbath in Christ, Dale Ratzlaff told a story about a tightrope walker who was going to walk across a rope over Niagra Falls. Just before he made his historic walk he was in the crowd inviting anyone who would to accompany him by riding in the wheelbarrow he was going to push across the falls. One gentleman finally told him that he thought he could accomplish the fete, but refused the invitation to take the ride. Just imagine, however, that it is Jesus pushing the wheelbarrow, would you have the courage to get in and enjoy the ride. That's the Christian walk of faith. We belong to Jesus, and he has promised us our salvation, now all we have to do is get in, and enjoy the ride.) Love that story! | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 119 Registered: 3-2005 |
Jeremy, Thanks for that link. What clearer evidence does one need, that these people are preaching a different gospel. My reason for leaving SDA, was Gal. 1:8,9, where Paul states it twice, his warning about those who would preach a gospel other than he preached, and then Paul's stamp of authority in Gal. 1:12--"directly from Jesus Christ". If He spoke to Paul, He did not speak to Mrs. White. Stan | ||
| Heretic Registered user Username: Heretic Post Number: 26 Registered: 2-2005 |
Belva, I loved that story, too. I noticed that not one of the SDA's commented. I think it's a great illustration of the interrelationship of "belief" and "trust". We can say that, yes, we believe in Him, but do we place all of our trust fully in Christ? This has been a hard one for me, as I'm sure it is for many people. It's especially difficult when you've gotten the message your whole life that there is still a component of salvation that can only be achieved by our own works, that somehow Christ alone isn't enough, that indeed He does need help pushing the wheelbarrow. This isn't the same Gospel of the Scriptures. | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 261 Registered: 7-2004 |
I may be premature in this observation, but since the restrictions have been placed on making things personal at R/S Walk seems to be a bit more civil. I'm so glad to see that he has that side to him. Let's all pray for some earnest and open exchanges of information. I love my SDA brothers, and if they have found Jesus, truly found him, I don't want to be a burden to them. I know that if the Holy Spirit is leading them He will lead them true. I ask that the Holy Spirit leads me daily as well. I have no dearer wish but that those I love will come to a saving relationship with Jesus. Jesus will return for his chosen people soon. I know I will be in that group, and the confidence I have gives me courage every day. God, be with your people and use us each to thy purpose day to day. Belva | ||
| Bob Registered user Username: Bob Post Number: 159 Registered: 7-2000  |
The final straw that caused me to walk out of an SDA Sabbath School - for the last time - was when a man I had known and respected as a scholar and teacher since my college days put down my statement that all church doctrines should be judged in the light of the Gospel. He said, dismissively, "There are many different understandings of what the Gospel is." I stood up and walked out of the class, and the following Sunday I began my search for a Christian church that isn't still "debating" about what the Gospel is! The SDA Church, in its arrogance, ignores or belittles 2000 years of Christian theology and history. Bob | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1711 Registered: 12-2003  |
So true, Bob. Colleen | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 514 Registered: 1-2003 |
I have also heard SDA say the same thing...that is the problem, they are not clear on the Gospel. They throw in the health message, the Sabbath, 3 Angels message as all being part of the Gospel. | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 262 Registered: 7-2004 |
That's because the SDA "special truths" are another gospel. But you already know that! | ||
| Bob Registered user Username: Bob Post Number: 160 Registered: 7-2000 |
Yes, SDAs evidently know more about the Gospel and the eternal purposes of God than even Jesus Christ does! | ||
| Freeatlast Registered user Username: Freeatlast Post Number: 330 Registered: 5-2002 |
SDA theology claims that the disciples and apostles kept the 10 commandments because they had the "complete" gospel (except for the health reform message and IJ parts that somehow got left out of Jesus' ministry), and that key parts of it (read: Sabbath observance) were either forgotten, obscured, intentionally deleted or changed - mostly by the Roman Catholic dominance of the church for centuries. The theology continues that Ellen White is the vehicle through which God chose to "restore the lost pieces of the Gospel", and that the SDA church is the delivery system for it to the world in these last days. Such theology certainly discounts the Holy Spirit's ability to teach the believer what He wrote in the Scriptures doesn't it? You can't get the "complete Gospel" in a body of non-SDA believers guided by the Holy Spirit using Scripture ALONE. You have to go get it through the SDA system. The Bible, the Holy Spirit, and the body of Christ outside the SDA system simply isn't enough, so they say... Apparently Jude 1:3 isn't correct and the Gospel of salvation in Jesus was NOT delivered ONCE. Certain parts of it had to be re-delivered 18 centuries after. To quote a line from Pulp Fiction, "That's a bold statement!" | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 154 Registered: 8-2004 |
 It's amazing to me what SDA theology does to Jesus. I've heard avid vegetarians say that if Jesus had lived in these days instead of those he would have been vegetarian too, but that it was not required of him then. I've heard others argue hard over whether he actually ATE meat then. He served it, but can we prove he ate it? (and is it better to have just served it so others can ingest it?) Somehow I think that it gets forgotten that Jesus was God in the flesh here on earth, not just a product of his Jewish heritage and culture. | ||
| Heretic Registered user Username: Heretic Post Number: 27 Registered: 2-2005 |
It's almost as if there is an extra-Biblical covenant in addition to the rest of the Biblical covenants, which includes all of the SDA conditions for acheiving salvation. The sign of the SDA Covenant would once again be the Sabbath, of course. You could also classify these beliefs as a new law, I suppose. You've got the Mosaic Law, the Royal Law, and now you have the SDA Law which supercedes the others. | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 263 Registered: 7-2004 |
Okay, now we are just getting catty. True statements all, but a bit of a meow. Has anyone read Walk's most recent thread? He seems to be trying to find out how great a role EGW is supposed to play, is going to play, or something like that, in the SDA organization as it goes forward from here. Between him and Colporteur we seemed to get the most EGW quotes, and they were the most awkward when we asked them to prove those same assertions from scripture. I'm planning to follow that thread with interest. However, if only SDA's respond to his inquiry, it will probably die out quickly, just as most of their discussions appear to. They may be frustrated with the influx of formers to their website, but they haven't had as much exercise in the scriptures for a long while. I think it may have even gotten their juices flowing. Belva | ||
| Freeatlast Registered user Username: Freeatlast Post Number: 331 Registered: 5-2002 |
Anything to get them searching for Truth again... | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 513 Registered: 10-2004  |
Heretic, I have thought the same thing! Since the New Covenant/Testament was obviously finished being written 2000 years ago, then there must be an "Even Newer Covenant" after it, in order for Ellen to be able to come along and write some more! But Revelation ends with, "He who testifies to these things says, 'Yes, I am coming quickly.' Amen. Come, Lord Jesus. The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all. Amen." That means that there would be no future covenant or inspired writings before Jesus comes back, just as there were no further writings after Malachi, before Jesus came, after Malachi wrote the following: "Remember the law of Moses My servant, even the statutes and ordinances which I commanded him in Horeb for all Israel. Behold, I am going to send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and terrible day of the LORD. He will restore the hearts of the fathers to their children and the hearts of the children to their fathers, so that I will not come and smite the land with a curse." Also, have you noticed that the OT ends with "law" and "a curse" and the NT ends with "grace"? I have called the SDA Law that you talk about, the Law of Ellen or the Ellenic law(s). And it really is it's own "Law," as EGW takes portions of the Law of Moses and adds her own various laws/commands, etc. Helovesme2 wrote:
They also forget that GOD Himself is the one who made the Jews eat meat! Here is a great verse for SDAs which I had seen before, but hadn't seen in awhile until today: "Do not be carried about with various and strange doctrines. For it is good that the heart be established by grace, not with foods which have not profited those who have been occupied with them." (Hebrews 13:9 NKJV.) Jeremy P.S. This thread has more posts than any other thread in the history of FAF (except for the Prayer Requests thread)!! (Message edited by jeremy on April 01, 2005) | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 264 Registered: 7-2004 |
I need your prayers. I'm at it again with Walk. I'm pleading my case for faith and grace, he's trying to trip me up with Jesus' exchange with the Rich Young Ruler. Talk about catty--he should get the meow award of the year for his attitude. Please feel free to come over and assist if you can. It's under Issues of Contemporary Worship and will the thread at the top. | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 265 Registered: 7-2004 |
I need your prayers. I'm at it again with Walk. I'm pleading my case for faith and grace, he's trying to trip me up with Jesus' exchange with the Rich Young Ruler. Talk about catty--he should get the meow award of the year for his attitude. Please feel free to come over and assist if you can. It's under Issues of Contemporary Worship and will the thread at the top. | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 266 Registered: 7-2004 |
Thanks for jumping in there with me Jeremy. That's interesting about this being the second longest thread. You might call this a prayer chain, too. Our buddy Walk didn't like what we said, but he finally couldn't refute it--all he could say was that he didn't agree with it. | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 123 Registered: 3-2005 |
Belva, I haven't seen that thread, I am still on the "clearer" thread, and I've had some interesting exchanges after I said I agreed with Mrs. White about what she thought of John Bunyan, then they said I was unethical--You can't win, but we are trying-Keep up the good work, as you've been great. There is an SDA on that thread named adriftfeline, who seems to have a good attitude. I think she is female. You might waant to follow-up with her somehow, as I posted a short answer to a question she had about Sabbath in Creation and New Jerusalem. I was in a hurry, but put something in writing. She seems teachable. But good luck with Walk. Stan | ||
| Heretic Registered user Username: Heretic Post Number: 28 Registered: 2-2005 |
Jeremy, Belva, and Stan: I just gotta say that you all are doing a terrific job over at the R/S site. I've been learning a lot from you guys as I'm sure there are many lurkers over there (and over here) who are as well. Seeds are being planted. I pray that the Lord will help them take root. As for the EGW thread, I just hope that Walk isn't using this as bait to get you to say something that could get you banished! Jeremy, great post above. Thanks! |
