| Author | Message | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 127 Registered: 3-2005 |
Diana, Eon's response to you was unkind and rude. She needs our prayers. She is out of control. You can e mail me if you want to discuss it further. Richard may give out my address to anyone that asks. Stan | ||
| Bmorgan Registered user Username: Bmorgan Post Number: 29 Registered: 7-2000 |
Can you believe this one? When I think of the many times I sat at the feet of these arrogant men, I shudder. I wonder if they do study the Word of God. God is certainly no respector of persons. Thank God for sound bible teachers. One of my favorite ones is J Vernon Mc Gee. I am thankful for BSF (Bible Study Fellowship), CBS (Community Bible Study), Precepts Inductive Studies (Kay Arthur) and the tons of others who are out there dividing the Word of Truth. No longer do the chains of fear keep us bound and tied exclusively to the throes of Adventism and its chiefain-EGW. Bmorgan Posted:By Richard O'Ffil Sat Apr 02, 2005 9:01 am Justin, In Greek the word gospel means 'good news'. In Greek the word doctrine means teaching. The cross is a doctrine! I don't understand the concep;t that we ought to preach the gospel and not the doctrine. The issue between denominations is clearly one of doctrine. The evangelicals have decided what the doctrine of salvation is and have apparently excluded and called a cult anyone who disagrees. Seventh-day Adventist teach a doctrine of the cross that is bigger than theirs. It includes more. That is why we call it the Great Controversy. This is why it has been so difficult on this forum to come to an agreement. The premise on both sides of the argument is not the same. Doctrine is important because it is what separates the denominations and groups. There is a false doctrine and a true doctrine, Jesus taught so. I have often said that we need to form our doctrine of salvation not just from Paul but from all the prophets. We must not forget what the Apostle Peter said about brother Paul, that many had misunderstood him and had lost there way. "And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; "As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction." 2 Peter 3:15,16 I believe that the counsel in these verses is still relevant and I pray we are not included in the group." | ||
| Dd Registered user Username: Dd Post Number: 388 Registered: 7-2004 |
Bmorgan, It is with sadness that the snare of doctrines keeps people blind to Jesus. That was the whole message of Paul. Paul was fighting the same snare in his day. The hard thing to understand, that Peter was referring to, was that Paul was speaking out against doctrines. It was a foreign concept and Paul was wanting all of those who believed in Jesus to understand that all God wants is to save mankind ("And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation"). Peter was not putting Paul down. He was agreeing with him. It was those who hung onto those doctrines that Peter said "some ignorant and unsteady people even destroy themselves by twisting what he (Paul) said. They do the same thing with other Scriptures too" (CEV). I am so sorry for all the persecution those of you on the O'Fill site endure. I am proud to "know" people who are willing to stand up for God's Word and Truth. You all remain in my prayers. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1298 Registered: 3-2004  |
Stan, I realize eon is unkind and rude. The way I see it is that the person is being unkind and rude toward God and not me. I just happen to be there standing up for God. So I do not take it personally. Then there are those EGW glasses the SDAs wear. I cannot forget them. Until they come off, the SDAs will continue to be the way they are. They are coming off some of the folks, little by little. It is almost that they are afraid to take those glasses off because they do not know what they will find and they do not trust Jesus fullly. I had thought I would not go back to R/S, but something keeps pulling me back. So I pray when I go on there and ask God to give me the words to say. I do really love you, Jeremy, Belva, and all the others who stand up for God there. The rest of you are more knowledgeable then I as I have only been out of adventism one year. I keep on reading the Bible and learning so God can make me more knowledgeable. Diana | ||
| Heretic Registered user Username: Heretic Post Number: 33 Registered: 2-2005 |
Diana, As I mentioned on another thread about the EGW/SDA glasses, it seems that for some more is involved than just removing the glasses. It'll take laser surgery. But we take comfort in knowing that Christ is operating the laser! I appreciate your kind posts over on the R/S site, Diana. You truly are a fine, Christian example for the more obnoxious ones over there. | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 275 Registered: 7-2004 |
Dear Diana, you just said something that made me vibrate to my soul. "...they do not trust Jesus fully." That is the heart and soul of what most SDA's are dealing with, whether they know it or not. As long as they view Jesus as a wise example of how they must live their lives, they will continue to NOT TRUST HIM. Why? Because Jesus lived a perfect life. They haven't been able to figure out how to do that, and they "believe" that they must! In a way they resent him for leaving them in that awkward position. Remember, he's the SDA's elder brother who is their example (not their true saviour). They just can't grasp that Jesus isn't expecting perfection of them, just faith. They don't want to accept that because it seems rediculously easy, and earning heaven shouldn't be easy, it should be hard. It's almost heathen the way they approach salvation. Buddists believe that there are levels of perfection that they attain as they progress through this life, then the next, and the next, so long as they are continually reborn. It's the same lie, just more obvious, than the lie the SDA's live by. In either case it is a human grasping at living a more and more perfect life. It's all a useless waste of effort, and it keeps us distracted from looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith. Diana, I'm not that educated, I just keep listening to Gene Scott, the cigar chomping, cussing preacher on late night TV. He may offend some by his approach to getting people's attention, but the man had a great respect for the Saviour, and he was soooooo smart, and could focus his smarts on the study of scripture. He dissected the sacraments and the various aspects of the tabernacle, and found that each of those aspects pointed to Jesus. The pure white linen=Jesus purity, the blue thread woven into the priest's robes, the color of heaven representing perfect healing, the golden instruments in the Holy, and Most Holy Places representing the purity and great value of God himself. On and on, he studies it out, then explains it to his listeners in a manner that strips away the voodoo language that most frequently surrounds the "religious speak" that leaves most of us walking out of the church wondering what it was we just heard. Since I've listened to Gene Scott for so many years I've come to realize that every story in the old testament pointed forward to some aspect of how Jesus would fulfill "our" obligation to God. The new testament clearly states what Jesus did to fill the breach between mankind and God, and in several places it explains how to hook together the shadow and the reality. As SDA's however, there is such a plethora of reading material that is supposed to be explaining what the bible says that nobody has any time left over to actually read the scriptures. Throw away the other stuff. Read the bible. Thank you for allowing me to rant. I've been up against Walk, who has written me off as the very voice of the Devil, and Eon, who is training to take over from Walk should he need a vacation. Oh, and let's not forget about Colporteur who is selling the red books to people of other denominations so that they will convert to Adventism. I thing I need to back away again! | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 131 Registered: 3-2005 |
Hey Belva, I also like that cigar chomping preacher you mentioned, sorry he is gone! Stan | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1301 Registered: 3-2004 |
Belva, You have been out of adventism longer than I have and have heard and studied more of the Bible than I have. So you are very well educated in the things that matter. I read you posts and think, WOW, I sure would like to be able to word things the way Belva does. God is using you and has blessed you and blessed me through you. God is awesome. Diana | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1303 Registered: 3-2004 |
Go over to R/S and read eon's last post to me. In the post I addressed to this person, I said I followed only Christ and go there and read the rest. Lastly I said I prayed for all who posted on that website and especially for him/her. Then I wrote a prayer, especially mentioning eon's name in it. The last post from eon said "thanks Diana". I was surprised and thankful because I was gearing up to say something I am sure God did not want me to say. There is hope for eon, so I continue to pray for him/her. God is so awesome. Diana | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 277 Registered: 7-2004 |
Do you people realize that since late January we have had the opportunity to address nearly all of the heretical and non-biblical doctrines on Pastor O'Ffill's site. The greatest thing is that in most cases, we didn't bring the subject up, some one of the SDA's would start the discussion, and we simply pointed them in the directions of the texts containing God's own truth. The only one that hasn't been completely aired is Investigative Judgment. I'm itching to have someone open up that can of worms! The latest one has to do with the scapegoat imagery of the old testament. Once again, Gene Scott was there first teaching that there had to be two goats indicating that Jesus bore away our sins and sicknesses by dying, but he completely obliterated them when he came out of that grave. Nobody before or since has been able to come out of the grave like Jesus did. Yes, he called people back from death as in the case of the widow's son, the young girl, and Lazarus, but Jesus got up under his own power on that first Easter morning, and sealed the deal with his Father in heaven shortly thereafter. What an amazing, unfathomable, and completely able Saviour we serve. Thank you Jesus. | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 278 Registered: 7-2004 |
God is so good! Investigative Judgment just hit the table. I will be away from my computer all day today because I'm going 150 miles away to a wedding. I will be anxiously awaiting Pastor O'Ffill's response. He was "expanding" our understanding of the scapegoat controversy and brought up the fact that SDA's believe in the Great Controversy and the Investigative Judgment. I saw the open door and asked him to explain IJ, chapter and verse, without having to mention a cornfield and the Great Disappointment. Jeremy, Stan and Diana, you will need to hold his feet to the fire if he doesn't come through, okay? Belva | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 132 Registered: 3-2005 |
What thread is the IJ discussion on? I have to run to the hospital now, but will look for it when I get a chance. Stan | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1304 Registered: 3-2004 |
All of you will have to help me with the IJ because I remember nothing about it. All I know is that it is not Biblical. I will read up on it here on the internet. This is God's work and is awesome. Diana | ||
| Heretic Registered user Username: Heretic Post Number: 34 Registered: 2-2005 |
Stan, It's on the "Holy Spirt" thread. | ||
| Dd Registered user Username: Dd Post Number: 389 Registered: 7-2004 |
Can someone post the "shortcut" to this thread for me? I like to "listen" in on the discussion. It is a great learning experience for me. | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 134 Registered: 3-2005 |
We need your prayers especially now. I really tried to present problems with the Sanctuary to Pastor O, and I didn't even mention EGW. I touched a very sensitive nerve when I gave a detailed history of the life of Ray Cottrell, and the struggle he had with this doctrine. The Pastor censored and edited out the portion where I gave the title of the paper, "Sanctuary Doctrine-Asset or Liability", and I made the statement that it could be downloadable off the internet, but I respectfully told him I did not know if I would be able to give out the site- so I did not. He has the edit button already for us. Stay tuned--It is interesting. I have even more realized what kiind of spirit we are dealing with over the last 2 days. Keep up the prayers for this spiritual battle. Thanks, Stan | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 135 Registered: 3-2005 |
And, not only did he delete the Title of Cottrell's paper, but then afew minutes later decided to censor any reference to Cottrell at all. Then I just asked him in a kind manner, if any mention of great saints of God such as Cottrell is also not allowed. We'll see what happens next. Stan | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 136 Registered: 3-2005 |
Dd, Go to the archives above of thru Mar 31, and Jeremy has that site linked. I don't know how to give you the link, since I am computer illiterate, but you will find it above. Stan | ||
| Bmorgan Registered user Username: Bmorgan Post Number: 30 Registered: 7-2000 |
Guys, read this one from the R/S forum. Interesting, isn't it! May the grace of ur Lord and Savior be with us all. God's word will not return to him empty. Bmorgan Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 4:26 pm Post subject: Pastor, I am currently a member of the SDA church. I heard about your website from a friend (his mother is a friend of yours) who told me that your forum has gotten very busy because of your grandson leaving the SDA church. I wanted to check and see what all the hubbub was all about. I have been very intrigued with all the posts from various individuals. I have learned a great deal which has been a blessing. Many of my beliefs as a SDA have been challenged and I have to admit to you that those who have really searched and found Jesus as a more personal Savior outside of Adventism impress me. I am not a huge scholar and so I have been disappointed at the attitude of my fellow Adventist brothers/sisters and the lack of Biblical support they have been able to post defending some of my positions. In particular, I am very disappointed with your position above in not posting texts that defend our belief in the investigative position. You may not want to "argue" but there are people reading your words and wanting clear answers from a SDA pastor. I believe you have a duty as the SDA pastor on this forum. I am grateful that you are willing to show both sides of the arguement. As a SDA, I find this very refreshing. It has always baffled me why I have always been told to stay away from other Christians so as not to become confused. If I truly belong to God's remnant people, won't the truths of Adventism stand up against what others may tell me? Thanks for listening to me. Diane | ||
| Bmorgan Registered user Username: Bmorgan Post Number: 31 Registered: 7-2000 |
Okay guys, tell me what you think about this post from the pastor. Does he sound desperate? Is he at his wits end? I wonder! bmorgan Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 2:20 pm Post subject: Where Shall We Go From Here? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This forum during the past couple of months has been frustrating to many. As you can imagine it is not exactly comforting to be in an environment where there are those who are questioning one's faith. I have been criticized for opening up the forum to this kind of thing. There has been no meeting of the minds and little good has come from it all. I am beginning to wonder if there is not an ethical issue involved. I don't think I would purposely go into a forum with the explicit purpose of trying to pull down the beliefs of the ones who were sponsoring it. But that is what is occurring. I opened the whole matter up by expressing my feelings as a grandfather for my grandson. This was my right and privilege. My expression of grief was apparently overlooked by some who apparently decided to take advantage of my expression to discredit the faith that I love and to which I have dedicated my life. I recognized that at the time this may have seemed the right thing to do- a kind of explanation of where they were coming from. But once we have expressed our convictions, Christian courtesy, it seems to me, would dictate that we say no more or go on to other things. If I visited your home and happened to know that a certain cologne made you ill, I wouldn't knowingly wear it and if I didn't know, once having learned I would take pains not to offend you. I have expressed earlier that the attitudes expressed in certain postings by those who have chosen to stay in the church have not always been representative of our high calling. It has also been brought to my attention that those who have decided to leave the church have at times coordinated their posting efforts on various threads. If this is true, I am saddened. It seems to me that so much that has gone on in recent months on both sides of the issues, has not been edifying. We need to see this forum press on to higher ground. If we can't we will have to go back to the drawing board. Richard O'Ffill |
