| Author | Message | ||
| Pw Registered user Username: Pw Post Number: 357 Registered: 6-2004 |
I remember how the SDA's really put a lot of focus on the papacy when I took the Revelation Seminar. Everything wrong with the modern day churches was basically the Catholics doing, from changing the day of worship to being the beast of false religion. While I do not agree with the Catholic church and their teachings, I do not believe they are the heart of darkness that the SDA creates them to be. Looking back at it now, I can see that when one church blames another church regarding the issues of sin and the world's problems, it's a real issue of pride and arrogance. One only needs to see that four fingers are pointing back while one finger points in the other direction. | ||
| Lisa_boyldavis Registered user Username: Lisa_boyldavis Post Number: 35 Registered: 3-2005 |
Pw All good comes from God, and all bad comes from the evil one... simple as that. And in the mean time I trust in Jesus Christ for my salvation, I get my information from the Bible alone, and let his Spirit be my guide. Nothing complicated about that, but terrifying for some who want all the answers. Lisa | ||
| Pw Registered user Username: Pw Post Number: 358 Registered: 6-2004 |
Very true. Unfortunately, SDA's don't seem to have this perception as they are constantly living in fear of coming persecution from Sunday keepers who reject their sabbath message. It's a life of paranoia. | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1757 Registered: 11-2002 |
Pw, once years ago someone asked me what was the main focus of the SDA religion. At that time I answered the main focus of the SDA religion was to be for anything the Catholic church is against (abortion, etc.) and to be against anything the Catholic church is for (school vouchers, etc). I just told the person it is a made up religion to be anti-Catholic. To some extent I still agree with myself. (That was one wacky statement. I still agree with myself? Well, whatever. I still do.) However, recently my d-i-l asked me if the SDA church is Christian. I said to her they are. It is. So, she asked me what their main focus is because from what she's observed it sure isn't Jesus. She is Catholic and had never heard of the SDA until she met my son. I told her the main focus of the SDA church is what you have to do and what you cannot do on Saturdays and to figure out where the world currently is at regarding the prophicies in Revelation so they can know if it's really time for them to repent to get ready to be with Jesus. She said something about needing to be ready to be with Jesus all the time in case we die NOW. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1320 Registered: 3-2004  |
All this reminds me of a song. I do not remember the title, but the words I remember are, "I know who holds the future and I know who holds my hand." That is Jesus. I no longer worry about the future and what may come. Jesus is holding my hand and will walk me through whatever may come. I do not have to know what that is. It is not important to my life today, literally, today. That is the future. Thank you God for Jesus. You are awesome. Diana | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1733 Registered: 12-2003  |
Diana, I relate to what you are saying. I remember that during the years we were doing intensive study and learning what the Bible really said, I became aware that as I understood the gospel and experienced the Holy Spirit making me new, I suddenly had "today" instead of always living between a past I couldn't change and a future I couldn't quite control. One of the Holy Spirit's great gifts to me has been the PRESENT. God is already in tomorrow, and He is redeeming my past. I can rest in today. Colleen | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 529 Registered: 10-2004  |
"God is already in tomorrow, and He is redeeming my past. I can rest in today." Great quote, Colleen! That should be on a bumper sticker or something.  I love the chorus of the Gaither song "Because He Lives": Because He lives, I can face tomorrow. Because He lives, all fear is gone. Because I know He holds the future, and life is worth the living just because He lives! Jeremy (Message edited by jeremy on April 05, 2005) | ||
| Stardoc57 Registered user Username: Stardoc57 Post Number: 7 Registered: 4-2004 |
I have a further question about salvation and the pope. Since salvation is by faith in Christ and his atonement, will someone be saved if he adds to what Christ did - believes and teaches others that they need to do works (confession, saying rosary, hail Marys etc.) in order to be forgiven & saved? Does someone who leads others to do works for salvation really believe in his heart that Christ's death did it all? We've really admired his actions that reveal a Christ-like spirit, his courage in confronting wrongs in the world, and his apparent love for Christ. I just feel confused based on our years in SDA and the contrast to what we are learning as we study the Bible. Is my understanding of Catholic beliefs regarding works actually what they believe, or is it a reflection of more brainwashing? Am I correct in understanding that deeds aren't going to save us? Won't there be people who say "Lord, Lord, didn't we do these things for you?" and be told "Depart, I never knew you?" My thoughts are just confused right now. Jim | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 170 Registered: 3-2005 |
Jim, I have the same problem you do. As Jeremy pointed out above, this pope has said Mary is a co-redemptrix, the Council of Trent, which pronounced Justification by Faith alone as anathema, is still in effect in the Catholic church. The SDA doctrine of salvation by faith plus works is the Roman Catholic position. Gal. 1:8,9 also applies to Catholicism like it does to Adventism--There is no difference. Stan | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 361 Registered: 4-2000  |
Stan, Good points! | ||
| Bob Registered user Username: Bob Post Number: 179 Registered: 7-2000  |
John Paul II's destiny is in the hands of Christ now, but I share Stan's concerns. Did you notice, in the news of the funeral, that the pope's casket had on it either the name or the symbol for Mary, not that of Jesus? | ||
| Bob Registered user Username: Bob Post Number: 180 Registered: 7-2000 |
sorry, I meant my reply for Jim! | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 161 Registered: 8-2004 |
According to the reports I saw, it had an M for Mary and a Cross, I understand, for Jesus. | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 520 Registered: 1-2003 |
I was recently in Orlando, Florida and guess what I saw...a huge church dedicated to "Mary-Queen of the Universe". I told my husband that I thought that was quite blasphemous and totally idolatrous, he agreed...and then I thought, "Wonder when Ellen will get her shrine?" After all, isn't Ellen practially the co-redemptrix with Christ as far as the SDA are concerned? (IOW: You must have Ellen to understand the Bible and get to Christ.) Hasn't she basically made the claim she is the 3rd person (Holy Spirit) of the Godhead, and haven't people let her replace the HS in their lives? Hasn't she made the claim (like the Pope) that she is God's mouthpiece on Earth and that when the GC is in session, isn't it the most powerful gathering on Earth (much like the Vatican electing a new Pope)? The similarities are astounding, and yet they hate the Catholics. My husband said that he watched the news and found it interesting that Bush and Clinton, and someone else he mentioned bowed before the casket of the Pope. I had that old fear creep up that maybe Ellen (and she isn't the originator of the idea the Pope is the anti-Christ) might be right! But then I realized I have nothing to fear even if the Pope is the anti-Christ and the world is bowing to him...God has it all under control! Amazing. | ||
| Sabra Registered user Username: Sabra Post Number: 330 Registered: 10-2001 |
The RCC has many, many errors. "To whom much is given, much is required." I think there are ignorant people in the RCC and SDA churches that will be ok with grace and ignorance, but those to whom much has been given to understand these errors and they still persist in error, are ultimately choosing their faith to be in their church and not Jesus. Lots of Catholics are coming out and SDA's too, the sheep know His voice. I'm telling you, I am SICK of the coverage. Can we get someting else on the TV beside the Pope? One of my SDA friends, who is really studying, says " and the whole world wondered after the beast" I knew that was how they would feel. | ||
| Praisegod Registered user Username: Praisegod Post Number: 299 Registered: 3-2004  |
This entire situation surrounding the RCC and the popeís death is puzzling. Most of us came out of a religion where we absolutely knew we had the truth. Now we know that we donít know everything, but weíve found Jesus alone is all we need. Also, I would think we might agree that when we get to heaven weíll find that none of us has our theology totally straight. My question is about knowing where to draw the line. What about those of us who truly loved the Lord while SDA, whether or not we knew we were saved? What about all the Catholics who love God with all the hearts and souls? So many of them are in countries where they may not even read or have a Bible. How much of our understanding of grace is required? In the parable in Matthew 7 where Jesus says to some ìdepart from me because I never knew youî he is earlier saying weíll know people by their fruit. In Matthew 13 about the sower, the good seeds yield a crop. Yet you also have the wheat and tares growing together until the harvest. Letís just say that I am glad that our sovereign Lord is the decision maker and I donít need to be concerned about it. Praise GodÖ | ||
| Sabra Registered user Username: Sabra Post Number: 331 Registered: 10-2001 |
Praisegod, I think this passage says a lot: 2 Timothy 2:19-21 19 Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: "The Lord knows those who are His," and, "Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity." 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor. 21 Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1755 Registered: 12-2003 |
I come down about where PraiseGod comes down in this. I really don't have any way of knowing whether or not the pope was ever born again. Richard pointed out to me last night, as he was cheking out some Catholic internet channels covering the pope, that in many of his pictures during the last 15 years or so, his face does not have that alive, warm look we often see on faces of those alive in Christ. But who knows? His good works were necessary for the world I'm sure. But as Jim pointed out, many will refer to their good works (the same as those of true believers, by the way), but Jesus will say, "I never knew you." We know for sure that work not of the Holy Spirit (read Mary worship, co-redmptrix, etc.) will be burned up. We also know that Paul said in Philippians 1:18 that whether it happens from false motives or true, what matters is if Christ is preached. Did the pope preach Christ? I'm not really sure. Certainly it wasn't a clear message--but I didn't listen to him much, either. Can God call people to himself through all this hoopla? Absolutely. God even called Nebuchadnezzar "my servant Nebuchadnezzar". God is sovereign over ALL, over evil as well as over good. If people attending the pope's funeral were moved by any of the music or symbols of Christ's blood--communion or whatever--and are moved to contemplate their position with God and their eternal destiny and their relationship with Jesus, then God is again exercising His sovereignty over even what men have perverted. The pope's destiny? I don't know. Did God work through the pope's altruism? Yes. If He can make even the rocks (unsaved, inanimate objects) cry out in His glory, He can also bring about His will through any person He chooses--whether or not that person is saved. Bottom line for me? My command is to give thanks in all things--and that includes the political and moral contributions of the pope--and to trust God with the man's personal destiny. Colleen | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 539 Registered: 10-2004 |
Pheeki, Ellen also said that she was "a physician of souls" and that she was God's only means of salvation (for erring individuals)!! Jeremy | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 235 Registered: 7-2004  |
Colleen, I loved your comment-- It really describes my own feelings as well. |
