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Message |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 1948
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, May 13, 2005 - 9:39 am: |     |
Dt, you and Bob apparently were posting at about the same time. I think Bob's experience sheds light on yours and others. By the time the doctrinal package makes sense, adding Ellen on top seems innocuous at first. After all, the new convert is somewhat "desensitized" by the subtle but flawed doctrine, and the sheer paradigm shift caused by the Adventist worldview causes him not to question EGW right away.
I understand your "smarmy" feeling. And yes, we have all been deceived by this belief system. The wonderful thing, though, is that God did not leave us in deception, and more than that, He's REDEEMING it and transforming it into greater insight about the new covenant and grace than we would likely have ever had otherwise.
What an amazing God!
Colleen |
Pw
Registered user
Username: Pw
Post Number: 434
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Friday, May 13, 2005 - 9:44 am: | |
Well, it seems all the SDA guidelines are not presented up front. There really wasn't much mention of EGW in the Revelation Seminar, it wasn't until after I completed the course that I was told about her and handed a bunch of her books. Once the spotlight shifted from Revelation to her teachings, I figured if they had Revelation translated properly then this woman must have been speaking the truth. Like I said, I was clueless about the Bible, and thought this was the truth, and I was one of the lucky ones who understood it the way many Protestants didn't. Deception upon deception. |
Dd
Registered user
Username: Dd
Post Number: 439
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, May 13, 2005 - 9:51 am: | |
Good questions, DT. I think it is just natural human tendancy to take what is given to us as "truth". Take for instance all the "wives tales" we have all heard that have very little truth associated with them...such as no swimming after eating, a wet head on a cold day will give a person pnuemonia, keeping a kids hair cut short will make for thicker hair as an adult...
I think human nature makes it very easy for the devil to come up with schemes (ie. legalistic beliefs) that bring into our lives bondaries for which to live. It is comforting to know "the rules". I believe some personalities have a stronger "bend" than others to live within set bondaries. There is much more control and security for them.
EGW just fits well into this type of natural mindset. A relationship with Jesus is a scary thing for those who like to have everything set in "stone". There is safety in a "checklist". For those, a relationship without a set list and relying on a law that is written "on the heart", it is hard to grasp. Little do they realize that by walking away from their saftey net of guidelines they are walking into the security of love that takes away the fear of needing a false set of rules.
I am rambling and hoping this makes sense. I just received the newest Review (maybe someone who knows computers better than me - which is just about everyone! - could put up the link to this issue). The cover says "Of All the Week the Best: The seventh-day Sabbath is not about a day; it's about God". The article, by May-Ellen Colon, is very typical...what you would expect...in the article Ms. Colon gives a list of "rules" for Sabbath...
*lay aside the burdens of life and rest
*focus on God and His agenda
*seek intimacy with God
*highlight the happiness, delight and joy that comf from having a relationship with God
*focus on God's Word
*enjoy God's created works and reflect on the love that [gives]
*focus on nuturing relationships with people
The list goes on...I am reading this and I thinking how sad to make a list for ONE DAY! When you live with Jesus, this list is a given! It makes sense and it is a DESIRE because of the rest we have in Jesus EVERY SINGLE DAY!!!
At the end of her article she says, "Start with something you know about the person God: God is a healer. We could expand on that truth about God as a person and say: The Sabbath is a day for healing."
PRAISE GOD...I don't have to live by a list of rules anymore! I don't need to wait for the one day of the week for my "healing". EVERYDAY is my salvation...EVERYDAY is my healing...
GIVE ME JESUS!!! |
Pw
Registered user
Username: Pw
Post Number: 435
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Friday, May 13, 2005 - 11:35 am: | |
I was thinking the same thing when I read the list.
It really does emphasize that the SDA church does not think a relationship with God can last outside a sabbath time frame. |
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 655
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Friday, May 13, 2005 - 12:27 pm: | |
What am I supposed to gather from that last quote, anyway??? It sounds like the Sabbath day is a "person god"!? Notice she changed "God" (in the first statement) to "Sabbath" (in the second statement)!
Jeremy |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 1954
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, May 13, 2005 - 12:28 pm: | |
Dd, I read that article, too. Another thing she did that greatly distressed me was to use Galatians 3:24๓"So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we migh be justified by faith"๓in order to SUPPORT Sabbath keeping. (By the way, she omitted Galatians 3:25: "Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.")
She argued that the law's purpose is to lead us to something beyond it, to "pricniples" instead of "precepts", or rules. Thus, she reasons, the "principles" of the Sabbath law direct us toward the principle of "need[ing] to focus on God's nature, His attributes, His character."
Then she lists several attributes of God and says, "If we know the Person, we have a better idea of what the right choice looks like in person. True Sabbathkeeping is mostly about God, not only about us."
In other words, she argues that the entire Sabbath -keeping "event" is about getting to know God by allowing the principles of needing to know and honor Him to direct us toward pondering His attributes. We celebrate this by making Sabbath special, by intentionally doing outreach, sharing, special time, etc.
Glaringly absent is the gospel, the need for repentance before a Holy God, the need for a Savior, the call to surrender oneself to Jesus. The point of Sabbath rest is missing.
It left me with that "lump in the stomach" feeling. Jesus is what Sabbath was about! Jesus IS the Sabbath--in Him is Sabbath rest.
It is so tortuous to try to make a sacred day make sense in a Christian framework. People end up missing Jesus.
As Dd says, "Give me Jesus!"
Colleen |
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 656
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Friday, May 13, 2005 - 12:53 pm: | |
It sounds very impersonal, just using the name "God" all the time. I looked up the article, and she uses "God" 58 times and "Jesus" only 4 times. I think that says it all right there. It's not really a Christian perspective. You're right Colleen, "People end up missing Jesus."
Jeremy |
Pw
Registered user
Username: Pw
Post Number: 436
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Friday, May 13, 2005 - 1:56 pm: | |
I rarely ever heard about a relationship with Jesus in the SDA. It was always about God's law, the sabbath or EGW.
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Dt
Registered user
Username: Dt
Post Number: 34
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Friday, May 13, 2005 - 2:52 pm: | |
Dd,
Thanks for that info. I have been thinking a lot about different personality tendencies and the attraction the RULES have for some. Besides those "Born In The Covenant Of SDAism", the staunchest SDA's I have known are either of Catholic background or had a very wild unchurched life prior to Adventism. It seems they either accept the need for a lot of rules (Catholics) or due to their total disregard for rules in their secular life they embraced the rigidity of SDA with a vengeance.
Maybe it is just God all along putting people in the situation where they can best get to know Him and His plan for them. Perhaps they only open their hearts to Him when they are within that framework.
Pw,
I'm sorry you were in a churches that did not stress Jesus and your relationship with Him. Fortunately, I had parents, a wife and extended family that all have a great faith-based relationship with Jesus. A couple of churches I attended were pretty legalistic but I just never let it bother me. |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 1488
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Friday, May 13, 2005 - 6:25 pm: | |
I was raised in a dysfunctional family where one kept secrets instead of talking about the things that trouble them. I was not supposed to ask questions, so I did not question my parents or the teachers at school. I followed like a "good little lamb" for a long time. God, then started gently pulling me away and all that is history now. Praise God for that. He is awesome.
Diana |
Pw
Registered user
Username: Pw
Post Number: 437
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Monday, May 16, 2005 - 9:03 am: | |
It's been over 19 years since I left the SDA, and I was only involved for about 1 1/2 years. But there were some people I recall who really did have a relationship with God and seemed they were sincere in pleasing him. It's just the SDA rules and guidelines were limiting their walk. There were two couples I became close with, but after leaving the church, one of the couples divorced. The other couple were raised SDA's and probably would remain so to this day as they seemed to embrace it all. |
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