| Author | Message | ||
| Jwd Registered user Username: Jwd Post Number: 2 Registered: 4-2005 |
Excuse me. I've been having trouble having my posts appearing. I'm forced once more to follow the A,B,C, class I just received from Colleen, and see if I can remember that D comes next! LOL If this appears, It may mean I do not have to repeat Kindergarten again! Although Colleen is a good teacher and always gave out Bubble Gum on Fridays! (he he) JWD | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 174 Registered: 8-2004 |
Looks like you've learned your lesson well! Mary | ||
| Jwd Registered user Username: Jwd Post Number: 3 Registered: 4-2005 |
It "appears" so, Mary :c) | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 175 Registered: 8-2004 |
Welcome to FAF! I look forward to hearing your story and getting to know you! I'm Mary, a former member of the Seventh Day Adventist Reform Movement who lives in Northern California with my children and my husband, who remains a member. Mary | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1843 Registered: 12-2003  |
Jwd, Welcome! We look forward to hearing more from you! Mary, thanks for sharing more of your story, too. What a life-changing event your leaving must have been for you! Colleen | ||
| Jwd Registered user Username: Jwd Post Number: 4 Registered: 4-2005 |
Thanks for the welcome Mary & Colleen. It's amazing what one little "click" can do! lol Mary, I would like to hear more about what the SDA Reform Movement is about. I have heard of small splinter groups, whose mission appears to be to point the church back to it's traditional "hard core" (if I may borrow that with a twist to it's meaning) blueprint following, perfection seeking, strict purity. Not long ago I received unsolicited a copy of a 31 pg. color magazine entitled "Our Firm Foundation" headed up by Joe Olson and Ron Spear, spotlighting Egg White, and the key "unique" (non-biblical)teachings. I wonder if there is a connection between this group and the group your husband, Mary, still supports? Dr.Jerry Gladson has asked about my story as has Colleen, Robert Sanders, and others. I guess what makes each of "our stories" unique, is that it is OUR story. I have hesitated to sit down to chronical our story (which cannot be mine alone, although I was the one engaged in the battle, my wife, Bonnie, got shot numerous times and our four children were hit with exploding mortors (so to speak). It nearly killed me. I mean those words - literally! But when I think of the suffering and marterdom of the apostles, and the sufferings of our Lord Himself, I feel what happened to me is of no consequence at all in the light of eternity and the blessing Jesus placed upon those who would suffer "for righteousness sake." I am wrestling with this and praying about it, but so far that "click" some writers speak of and look for - for the flow of inspiration - has not sounded in my spirit. And so I keep putting it off. It would be too long, anyway, to include here, with the details, which actually make up the story and are vital to it. I will say this, as I mentioned to Jerry Gladson, that one of the hardest things for me to face personally, was the utter lonliness I did not anticipate when I took my stand. I had never experienced this depth of being ostracized and in my love for my ministry and our members and the Church, I did not reason a priori and was terribly naive in view of the "true church" concept I had framed (programmed) in my mind. I was not prepared for the ice cold immediate rejection and excommunication from virtually all we had thought were true friends and our brothers and sisters in Christ. To be looked upon as a heretic and apostate by those closest to you, is not easy to endure. Some of you know that all too well. So I was happy to discover Life Assurance Ministries, the Proclamation! and the Former Adventist web site and then this forum. It's not the same as hugging each other physically, and laughing, crying, praying and sharing together in a livingroom with your shoes off, but it's at least a "word way" - - a path of words through which to locate and reach other survivors. If you don't mind, I'll pull up a chair over here in the corner and listen in and soak in some of the agape radiation and warm up a bit. <he he> Jess | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1417 Registered: 3-2004  |
Jess, Welcome to the FAF. I hope you have read some of the threads and seen how we treat each other. I look forward to when you can put your adventure out of adventism on paper and share it with us. God loves you and is holding you is his awesome arms as you go through this separation from adventism. Diana | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1845 Registered: 12-2003 |
It's true--God redeems the years the locusts ate. He will bring (and is bringing!) fellowship and true support into your life and also your wife's. We're glad you've joined us! Colleen | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 367 Registered: 7-2004 |
Welcome to our little living room, and that corner is reserved just for you, pull up next to the fire and get comfortable. I hope you will come to view us as family. We all have our quirks, but we are so there for each other when we are in need. Belva | ||
| Esther Registered user Username: Esther Post Number: 222 Registered: 5-2004 |
Welcome to the forum! We are always happy about new family members  | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 176 Registered: 8-2004 |
:-) No it's not connected with "Our Firm Foundation", though the SDARM did court them for awhile, "Our Firm Foundation" is a recent split. The Seventh Day Adventist Reform Movement (SDARM) is older. It separated from the 'regular' SDA Church (actually a bunch of SDA members in Europe were kicked out over unwillingness to participate in war) in 1914, and after attempts to reconcile, organized as a separate church in 1925. The Reform Movement later split into two organizations in 1951 (the SDA Reform Movement, and the International Missionary Society SDA Reform Movement, often referred to as the IMS) and they both continue to this day though they have made some attempts to reunify with eachother. The SDARM has headquarters in Roanoke, VA, USA, and the IMS has headquarters in Mosbach/Baden Germany. Many SDARM members consider the 'regular SDA church' to 'have fallen' or 'be falling' into the condition of the rest of protestantism. The SDARM believes that they are holding up the standard of historic SDAism that the regular church has allowed to drag in the dust. In addition to the regular SDA doctrines, they add active church discipline, vegetarianism as a test of fellowship, consciencious objection to war, closed communion, the idea that they are the 'fourth angel' or 'the angel of Revelation 18', a strong 'no divorce and remarriage' stance, etc. Anyone who wants to look directly at their belief statement instead of taking my word for it can check out http://www.sdarmgc.org/beliefs.php (SDARM) or http://www.imssdarm.org/ingles/ourbelief.php (IMS) The SDARM GC site is: www.sdarm.org The IMS GC site is: www.imssdarm.org I could write much more, but this is at least an overview. Thanks for asking! Soli Deo Gloria, Mary | ||
| Carol_2 Registered user Username: Carol_2 Post Number: 307 Registered: 2-2002  |
Wow Mary! The SDA church must keep real quiet about SDARM.....how large is its membership? I'm just curious, because I know many SDAs with the mindset you desribed in SDARM, that I'm surprised they've not left the "regular" SDA church and joined the Reform Movement. Very interesting, thanks for sharing! | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 177 Registered: 8-2004 |
I haven't asked lately but a few years ago the SDARM was estimated to have around 35,000, and the IMS somewhere around half to two thirds of that. From what I understand they are both currently experiencing a 'net gain' - more baptisms than deaths and apostasies (the only two ways to leave). | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1850 Registered: 12-2003 |
It's all so interesting, Mary. Given the strict observance to all traditional SDA standards as well as the additional ones you mentioned, your journey must be very--well, INTENSE. Thanks for telling us some of this background! Colleen | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 179 Registered: 8-2004 |
:-) That would be one way to put it! God is so good though, to keep working with each of us, taking us from where we are to where he has planned for us. To paraphrase, ".... this present time [is] not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us." Romans 8:18 Thanking God, Mary | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 595 Registered: 10-2004  |
Wow, so they really are historical SDA--they don't even believe in the Trinity! Did anyone else check out the SDARM statement of beliefs?
That is very confusing--first they say that their is only one God and that that is "the eternal Father" who is the Creator. Then they imply that Jesus is NOT eternal, but that instead He is "the Son of God, one in nature with the eternal Father." This is very similar to the official SDA statement of beliefs that was in effect until 1980, which also implied that Jesus is not eternal. Then they say that, "These three persons, God (the Father), Jesus Christ (the Son), and the Holy Spirit are the Godhead." So how can "the eternal Father" be the "one God" and then these three persons be "the Godhead"? It doesn't even make any sense. Jesus and the Holy Spirit aren't "the one God," they aren't "God" but they are part of the "Godhead"??? Here is the official SDA statement that was finally endorsed by the GC in 1946 (this was when the SDA church was slowly moving more towards Trinitarianism, but they still implied that Jesus was not eternal.) This unorthodox statement was in effect in the regular SDA church until 1980:
I don't understand why Walter Martin did not call the SDA church a cult, based on this unorthodox official statement of belief, which implies that Jesus is not eternal! Jeremy (Message edited by jeremy on April 27, 2005) | ||
| Pw Registered user Username: Pw Post Number: 406 Registered: 6-2004 |
That sounds much closer to the Jehovah Witness belief system. | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 596 Registered: 10-2004 |
Yes, and it also sounds like Mormonism's tritheism-type theology:
Jeremy | ||
| Dd Registered user Username: Dd Post Number: 427 Registered: 7-2004 |
Jeremy, Thanks for the LDS link above. I was intrigued by the Joesph Smith bio. I am curious to learn more about him. It is interesting that he died in 1844. That was the first picture I have seen of him. I remember asking my mom (I must have been in 1st or 2nd grade) how we know that Ellen White wasn't just a fake prophet like the Mormon's prophet. I don't remember her response and I don't remember thinking there could even be a possiblity that the SDA church's prophet could be anything else but "perfect". Seeing the short bio of J. Smith is strange in that I can have an understanding of how easy it is to hold such a person in such a high esteem. Weird. | ||
| Schasc Registered user Username: Schasc Post Number: 11 Registered: 10-2004 |
Funny that you should mention that Dd...........I have often wondered why EGW is considered a true prophet and Joseph Smith is not. I wonder how many other people have had that same thought. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1855 Registered: 12-2003 |
I remember having those thoughts in Jr. High when we were learning about Ellen White and how she met the "tests of a prophet" and Joseph Smith did not. I wondered about the two, but I was completely convinced OUR prophet was TRUE. I remember feeling so very smug, for a 12-year-old, about being in the TRUE church, and feeling so superior to "those Mormons" who were in a false religion. I also remember wondering about the similarity between Mormons and Adventists when it came to classical music. Adventists have a long tradition of giving their kids music lessons and perfecting themselves to "perform in church". Academies historically used the bands and choirs as recruiting tools instead of sports. Mormons also have a rich tradition of classical music crowned by the Mormon Tab. Choir. I used to think about Ellen's "insight" that Lucifer had been the choir director of the angelic host, and that he had supposedly sung four part harmony all at once by himself. I used to think it was significant that Mormons, the real false church, had Lucifer's deception giving them their musical richness. Then I would wonder about ADventists and music, and I'd reassure myself that we weren't like the Mormons because we didn't flaunt a denominational choir that represented the whole church. WE had the true, godly gift of music. Really go-nowhere reasoning--but I still think the musical similarity between the two is signficant. I now believe the extreme stress upon classical music in Adventism is a not-completely-conscious replacement for true spiritual awakening. Great music can make a person transcend the drudgery of common life; I remember many times feeling tearful and even worshipful when I heard great music in church. I believe great church music calls people to worship the transcendent God who is above all common things. But I realize that in many ways, my musical experience substituted for a true spiritual one. It replaced literal worship of Jesus as the focus and cause of a deep response to something transcendent. I suspect this reaction is common among Adventists--and, no doubt, Mormons as well. It's quite interesting, now, to compare Mormonism and Adventism. There are so many more simlarities than I ever would have admitted (or imagined!). Colleen | ||
| Dd Registered user Username: Dd Post Number: 428 Registered: 7-2004 |
Colleen, Funny you should comment on the music being a relacement for true spiritual experience. Monday morning I sat and listened to various SDAs expound on the FABULOUS music at WWC alumni weekend. "It all started Friday night...Sabbath church service was amazing...the organ was exceptional...what a spine-tingling hymn with the organ, brass instruments and choir...Saturday night Evensong...WOW!" As I sat and listened, I wondered if anything was said or sung that brought people closer to God and His power and presence in their lives. It was all very empty for me to listen to. Soon after the talk of the uplifting music, the conversation changed to who was at church and the alumni meeting that lasted 6 hours because of a group of hot heads...yada, yada...gripe, gripe...SO SAD! I will forever sing the praises of my Savior who chose me to live in His fulfilling grace and peace! | ||
| Bob Registered user Username: Bob Post Number: 225 Registered: 7-2000  |
The thing that I miss LEAST about those years I spent in Adventism is hearing (and participating in!) the constant criticism and complaining about the leadership of the local church or of the denomination. And of course, most of this carping took place on the "holy" Sabbath day! Bob | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1428 Registered: 3-2004 |
Dd, growing up adventist I remember being "convicted" at the week of prayer we had at the school, and crying, or heard music that made me cry. Two days later I was back to my old self. No one, teacher or preacher, ever talked to those of us convicted and prayed with us to lead us to Jesus. I guess that was because we already knew the truth It got to where I did not like to cry over anything that had to do with religion or God. In my own life it showed me it did not mean a thing. I am finally learning to cry when I hear a God filled sermon or music and I know God is talking to me. He is awesome. Diana |
