Post Number: 1910
|Posted on Saturday, May 07, 2005 - 10:31 pm: || |
Dd, That is a great essay. I'm copying here another quote from it:
"It is Truth they actually fear; it is challenging their people to think that they fear; it is someone questioning the party positions that they fear. Anyone who dares to bring such a message of grace within their walled cities will be attacked. Jesus discovered this when He proclaimed liberty in the synagogue. Stephen discovered it when the sectarians could not refute his teaching. They stopped up their ears, rushed upon him, and murdered him. Trying to liberate a death camp is dangerous business; the guards and commandants take a dim view of it."
He's right. It is difficult and dangerous to try to liberate those we know are in bondage. But then, we really can't. We can, though, pray for them.
I am still amazed by the freedom and reality of knowing Jesus and His love. How life changing is that!!
BTW, Happy Mother's Day to all of my sisters into whose lives God has put younger people to mentor and nurture. What a demanding and trust-building assignment!
Post Number: 261
|Posted on Sunday, May 08, 2005 - 8:52 pm: || |
Dd, That is a great article! I liked the section "Yield Not To False Brethren". "Yielding to false brethren is not only a personal defeat, it is a defeat for the gospel and for Truth. Paul had absolutely zero tolerance for such people. Indeed, in one of his harshest statements in all his writings, he said, "As for those who are troubling you, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!" (Gal.5:12) "For those promoting circumcision, Paul prescribed castration! No, Paul was not amused by these legalists. Indeed, he pronounced anathema upon them (Gal. 1:8,9)"... Circumcision referred to the law system including Sabbath keeping and food laws. So, maybe certain leaders who promote their system of bondage in SDA, are not demon possessed, but according to Paul, they need to be emasculated. Stan
Post Number: 63
|Posted on Sunday, May 08, 2005 - 11:17 pm: || |
What led me to leave the bondage of legalism was the realizatin (at least subconciously) that all this stuff wasn't making me a better person. Indeed, the opposite was happening. I could be good little Adventist, but at the same time I could be very ugly to others. That was completely oppposite of who I am, and to be honest, it really scared me! It was like a "low point" that recovering addicts talk about.
I've read several discussions about defining cults, but in the end, they all come down to this: they substitute formulas for personal spirituality. And yes, Stan, those who lead others into these formulas for salvation aught to be emasculated, in more ways than one.
Formulas lead to disaster; personal spirituality sets us free. I really agree that we need to show our freedom, so that others still trapped may see it.
Post Number: 310
|Posted on Wednesday, May 18, 2005 - 4:24 pm: || |
Since this thread dealt with the doctrines of demons earlier, I would like to mention something interesting I heard while listening to an old Robert Brinsmead tape earlier today. He recorded a tape series called, "The Gospel against the Sectarian Spirit". In that tape series he definitely calls the sectarian spirit a DEMONIC spirit. He defines the sectarian spirit, as any group which by their peculiar doctrines defines themselves as better than other Christians because they adhere to a certain belief system to distinguish themselves, or that hold that they are the only group with the right doctrines. However, there is nothing wrong with having distinctives, as long as those distinctives don't therefore make you better than others.
He goes on to then use SDA as a "Case study on the Sectarian spirit", and therefore identifies the spirit of Adventism as a demonic spirit opposed to the gospel. I had forgotten that Brinsmead had gone this far in identifying Adventism, and the spirit behind the church.
Post Number: 1992
|Posted on Wednesday, May 18, 2005 - 11:06 pm: || |
How interesting, Stan. What year did he give this talk?
Post Number: 313
|Posted on Wednesday, May 18, 2005 - 11:42 pm: || |
This tape series was recorded in 1981, and it validates what you have been saying about the Spirit of Adventism. I had the privilege of meeting Bob Brinsmead in the early 80's. The reason this was so fascinating to me was the fact that Bob was reluctant to attribute demonism to a lot of things. He used to be critical of Christians who would find a demon behind every bush. I believe these tapes are still available from Verdict publications.
It should also be pointed out that Brinsmead was responsible for the World Wide Church of God abandoning their belief in the Sabbath.
Des Ford and Bob Brinsmead both had tremendous influence on the SDA church--Ford was the bridge over the troubled waters, and Brinsmead closed the deal, as far as I was concerned.
Post Number: 283
|Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 3:52 am: || |
I'd like to point out that it is dis-heartening when this sister of yours has given Al Maxey's link a multitude of times on this forum and was pretty much met with silence--not a thank you.
And the irony of it is that when I was posting those links they were about coming from a law centered religion to a grace centered lifesytle.
If my posting on this forum is getting to everybody--then let me know and I'll stop. It's alot easier than being dis-missed altogether ESPECIALLY when I was posting those links with all of us in mind who have come from a Law Centered background. It was to help everybody here, especially the newcomer but also for the ones who have gotten past the 'milk of the Word' into the 'meat of the Word."
Here is a clip of one of the links back in March:
"--- Standing aloof while others perpetrate violence against the innocent makes one equally culpable before God. A man who watches a woman raped, and does nothing to stop the crime or aid the victim, is just as guilty as the rapist!! Israel was being raped and ravaged by pagan nations ... and the Edomites did nothing to assist their kindred nation. "On the day that you stood aloof ... you too were as one of them!" (Obadiah 11). There are many good servants of our Lord who are today being viciously vilified and victimized by godless servants of Satan. These hounds from hell, masquerading as disciples of Christ, maliciously maul anyone who seeks to stand for Truth as opposed to the tedious tenets of their tradition. And, yes, they will reap exactly what they sow. But, there is another equally godless sort associated with these crimes --- those who stand aloof and silently observe (perhaps even approving).""
""In Psalm 38 David bemoans the treachery of those who array themselves against him -- "Those who seek my life lay snares for me; and those who seek to injure me have threatened destruction, and they devise treachery all day long" (vs. 12). This is bad enough, but David's affliction is compounded by the following -- "My loved ones and my friends stand aloof from my plague; and my kinsmen stand afar off" (vs. 11). Without doubt, this was far more painful than the evil doings of the wicked.
Like those from Edom, and like the "friends" of David, I have personally witnessed so-called "Christians" stand silently by, doing absolutely nothing, while a faithful servant of the Lord was torn limb from limb by religious Rottweilers. The Pulpit Commentary calls this "malignant neutrality" (vol. 14). This is morally reprehensible and spiritually despicable behavior; such cowards who "stand aloof" are no better, and in some ways far worse, than the mutt mauling these saints! The text displays "the perverted and reprehensible values" of the typical enemy of the Lord and His people, "for whom covenant loyalty to a brother meant nothing" (The Expositor's Bible Commentary, vol. 7, p. 349). The fate of such persons will be fearful!! Both the oppressor, as well as the one who stood aloof, or who gloated over the misery of the oppressed, will be destroyed. Dogs (Rev. 22:15) and cowards (Rev. 21:8) will NOT make it into the New Jerusalem, but will perish outside the gates of this holy city. And we shall shout with the angels, "They deserve it!" (Rev. 16:6).""
The thread title is "The Prophecy of Obadiah."
Here's that link again:
Post Number: 291
|Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 7:38 am: || |
And now, if you will, please go to the "Meditation" thread and see what I should have read PRIOR to posting the above.
With love to all,
Post Number: 126
|Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 10:40 am: || |
Denise, I understand where you are coming from. I think we've all posted things to this forum hoping to stimulate discussion only to see nothing happen or another topic spring up. This is one of the limitations of a forum, unfortunately. Wouldn't it be great to be able to discuss these things face-to-face?
Anyway, don't feel bad. I've shared similar thoughts and I'm sure others have as well.
Your brother in Christ,
Post Number: 130
|Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 1:43 pm: || |
Denise, I understand your feelings. What you don't know is that I saw your post and checked out the link and was greatly blessed and have continued to check back there and read the great information and wisdom being posted.
I'm sorry I didn't respond and let you know. It is not an excuse but I find myself so busy I don't even have time to read all the information here. I get up at 5:30am in the morning to read and spent time in worship before I go to my classroom and I have little time to be social online. Again I'm sorry.
Post Number: 254
|Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 3:10 pm: || |
Denise, each of us has varying degrees of interest in certain topics, and that influences the frequency of our responses to those topics.
Frankly, there are some days on this forum when I feel outnumbered by the number of women who post, compared to the number of men. Sometimes I post a comment, and feel totally ignored. Maybe what I had to say was obvious, or really dumb, or poorly expressed. We all have times when we need to just get over it.
Try not to take it personally.
Post Number: 133
|Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 4:28 pm: || |
Bob I often have "dumb" days when what I say online and sometimes in person is met with a resounding "thud" as it hits the ground. I figure I'm ahead of the "game" if it doesn't hit my foot when it hits the ground.
Post Number: 293
|Posted on Friday, May 20, 2005 - 2:41 am: || |
Greg, Richard and Bob,
Greg, it would be wonderful to be able to discuss these things 'face to face!' That's a dream I'm always having. Maybe one day that dream will come true and we could bask in the Glory of God's Word all day long! One day, we will be eternally talking together. That's the day I long for. God Bless you for your words that are very comforting and true. This sister of yours really did need that today. You're a great brother in Christ.
Bob, I don't talk to you well, cause your a guy. JUST JOKING!! I see too that all three of you men have felt the same way as myself (except the 'being the minority gender'--of course) and so you all know then how it can hurt at the time it happens. And yes, "get over it" is one way Bob and I could do that and have through these 5 years when it's a once in a while thing.
However if it happens time and time again on many different topics, it does get one to wonder if she really is the "outcast" here also. Either that or I had wondered if people actually gave a hoot about any of the topics besides Ellen G. White. Or the third thought was most everybody was apathetic about any of the topics because it was out of the "group think" paradigm. Either way, now my mind is more at peace--thank you and God Bless you!*
Richard, it makes me so happy to know that somebody on this forum got something out of that particular study! This in itself is a great blessing to me. And together we can thank the Lord for such studies as that. Very edifying and educational as well (for those who want to learn). It's good to know that you still read his 'Reflections' as they are so edifying, educational and thought provoking. Now I know my attempt wasn't in vain. This helps me know that even when homebound God is still making some use of me. As I've said, what a great blessing for me!
And I might mention that you had me laughing over here talking about that "thud" not hitting your foot! Thank you for the chuckle. It is very much needed. And believe me, I can relate! <grin>. God Bless you very much Richard.
You guys are wonderful brothers in Christ. I'm a blessed woman!
As an added note, take a peek at the Meditation of the Day thread that I referred to--it is something this woman needs to read more often!
Peace to all of you.
In Christ Jesus.
your sister, Denise