| Author |
Message |
Windmotion
Registered user
Username: Windmotion
Post Number: 137
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 10:32 am: |     |
Hi there Dr. Patti! We meet again! Perhaps you remember me from Yahoo chat long ago with Dennis? I also made a brief sally on CARM quite some time ago and saw you. Anyways, I agree with you. I will concede maybe some changes can be chalked up to a "conspiracy theory." But others seem totally irrational.
As Jeremy said awhile back "Not only have they eliminated the reference to Jesus' divinity, they have also eliminated any reference to His humanity!" There is no method to this madness. Only one thing is constant, a blatant disrespect for an author's property.
Salutatorily,
Hannah |
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 675
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 11:56 am: | |
Hannah, actually, I didn't mean that those changes were irrational--EGW actually does deny both Jesus' divinity and His humanity. She denies that He was eternally fully God who actually fully became man while still being fully God.
Drpatti,
Which version of the SDA hymnal is that version of that last hymn from? According to the SDA Digital Hymnal site (www.digitalhymnal.org), it does say, "Soar we now where Christ has led."
Jeremy |
Drpatti
Registered user
Username: Drpatti
Post Number: 20
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 1:58 pm: | |
Hi, Jeremy.
I am only looking at the 1941 edition (the one my great-grandmother bought new at the 1941 World Conference in San Francisco). This is the one that Colleen referred to in her article.
I do think a lot of changes were made in the "new" hymnal (1985) which the SDAs tout as "progress." I see it as instability of beliefs. What about those people who lived and died during that time? Did they not have the right to know the Truth? Progress? Leaving some people behind in darkness? I don't get it.
This shows how even as late as 1941, SDAism was still steeped in the Arianism in which they were conceived. William Miller wrote a (very enlightening) letter about the "little flock" that would become SDAs. He said that those who believe in "soul sleep" nearly always have an aberrant belief concerning the divinity of Christ. |
Drpatti
Registered user
Username: Drpatti
Post Number: 21
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 2:04 pm: | |
Hi, Hannah!
Yes, I remember you well! 
Good to see you.
Patti |
Drpatti
Registered user
Username: Drpatti
Post Number: 22
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 2:07 pm: | |
I just heard a joke, Hannah, I thought I would share with you.
Did you hear about the dyslexic father?
To compensate for his disability, he named his daughter Hannah and his son Bob.
How does it feel to be the same backward or forward?
|
Drpatti
Registered user
Username: Drpatti
Post Number: 23
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 2:12 pm: | |
Hi, Stan!
quote:Thanks for all these examples. The one that gets me the most is that line "While I prove the Lord my own". What else is there to prove that Adventism is a salvation by works system? It comes out in the hymnody for sure. What Hymnal was that song in?
It just makes me ill.
I am going through the 1941 SDA hymnal, which was the one I grew up with.
|
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 1998
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 3:34 pm: | |
Patti, while many changes were made in the 1985 hymnal that corrected the apparent Arianism, there were other changes made that decreased the signficance of Jesus' blood and sacrifice even more than in the 1941 edition. Also, there were many subtler Arian alterations that persisted in the 1985 edition.
It's really revealing to look at a church's hymns!
Colleen |
Windmotion
Registered user
Username: Windmotion
Post Number: 138
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 3:44 pm: | |
Hi! Jeremy, I'm sorry I didn't mean to misquote you :-) Are you saying EGW thinks Jesus was somehow in between?
Dr. Patti, it means I learned things like "palidrome" and "racecar" and "Madam I'm Adam" at entirely too young of an age. BTW tell your dyslexic friend if he has another daughter he can name her Anne :-)
Did you ever hear the one about the agnostic, dyslexic insomnia? No?
He would stay awake all night wondering if there is a dog!
Ha, one of my all time fav jokes.
Chipperly,
Hannah |
Sabra
Registered user
Username: Sabra
Post Number: 358
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Friday, May 20, 2005 - 9:18 am: | |
This thread amazes me.
I guess, because most the SDA's I know are so deceived and just don't have a clue, but this shows the deep, dark roots of that deception and it's a little scary. |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 2008
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, May 20, 2005 - 10:45 am: | |
You're right, Sabra. I had a similar reaction when I started to look at various hymns and found not just one or two but widespread changes that altered the gospel and the identity of Christ and the church.
Someone I know who has spent several years doing in-depth study of the cults and doing presentations on them has said that one of the marks of a cult is that it produces its own hymnbooks and even writes many of its own hymns. (Think "Shepherd Divine" that Jeremy mentioned above, "We Have This Hope" by Wayne Hooper, etc.)
(Hannah, our 18-yr-old senior came home just this week with that joke!)
Colleen |
Windmotion
Registered user
Username: Windmotion
Post Number: 139
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Friday, May 20, 2005 - 11:18 am: | |
Your comment about cults producing their own hymnbooks and writing their own hymns is overgeneralized Colleen. I was a member of the Christian and Missionary Alliance church for a few years and that denomination also has its own hymnbook and its own hymns. From what I remember the founder of the church (A.B. Simpson) just liked to write hymns. I don't remember if he liked to write his own melodies but singing his songs was dreadful because no one knew them and they all went so high. I think they were only sung in the evening service. Now the church (my parents' church) has a more contemporary pastor and they sing few hymns, mostly choruses, and the hymns they do sing are the popular ones. Any other CMAs here know what I'm talking about?
Operatically,
Hannah |
Melissa
Registered user
Username: Melissa
Post Number: 889
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Friday, May 20, 2005 - 11:21 am: | |
I have to confess, that copy of proclamation "disappeared" from my house before I got to read it, so I'm not sure if it's in the article, but how did you begin on this quest? Some of the songs you've mentioned, I've never even heard of....
Last night, we were at rehearsal for this weekend's praise service, and one of the songs we're singing is "Are you Washed Medley". I wondered if SDAs sang it in it's original form. These are the medley words....
What can wash away my sin nothing but the blood of Jesus
What can make me whole again nothing but the blood of Jesus
Nothing can for sin atone nothing but the blood of Jesus
Naught of good that I have done nothing but the blood of Jesus
O! Precious is the flow that makes me white as snow
No other fount I know
Nothing but the blood of Jesus
Nothing but the blood of Jesus
For my pardon this I see nothing but the blood of Jesus
For my cleansing this my plea nothing but the blood of Jesus
O! Precious is the flow that makes me white as snow
No other found I know
Nothing but the blood of Jesus
Nothing but the blood of Jesus
This is all my hope and peace nothing but the blood of Jesus
This is all my righteousness nothing but the blood of Jesus
Have you been to Jesus for the cleansing power
Are you washed in the blood of the Lamb
Am Are you fully trusting in His grace this hour
Are you washed in the blood of the Lamb
Are you washed in the blood
In the soul cleansing blood of the Lamb
Are your garments spotless are they white as snow
Are you washed in the blood of the Lamb
Lay aside the garments that are stained with sin
And be washed in the blood of the Lamb
Thereís a fountain flowing for the soul unclean
O, be washed in the blood of the Lamb
Are you washed in the blood
In the soul cleansing blood of the Lamb
Are your garments spotless are they white as snow
Are you washed in the blood of the Lamb
There is power, power wonder working power
In the blood of the Lamb
There is power, power wonder working power
In the precious blood of the Lamb
There is power, power wonder working power
In the blood of the Lamb
There is power, power wonder working power
In the precious blood of the Lamb
Nothing but the blood of Jesus
Nothing but the blood of Jesus
Nothing but the blood of Jesus |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 1527
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Friday, May 20, 2005 - 11:31 am: | |
Amen!! Power in the blood of Jesus. What wonderful news and I am so glad that each of us has learned that. Thank you Jesus.
You are AWESOME.
Diana |
