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Buzz
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Post Number: 7
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Sunday, May 22, 2005 - 6:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Came across 1 Timothy 1-6 today and wonder if this has any meaning/significance to a former adventist in regards to EGW? Thanks for assistance.
Buzz
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Posted on Sunday, May 22, 2005 - 6:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Correction 1 Timothy 4:1-6
sorry and thanks
Belvalew
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Posted on Sunday, May 22, 2005 - 7:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

For people to recognize this text as a warning, they need to know a few things about the practices and beliefs of the SDA church at its inception. Most of the people I know don't want to bother themselves with finiding that information out. Particularly SDa church members. They prefer to see the denomination the way it appears to be today.
Colleentinker
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Posted on Sunday, May 22, 2005 - 9:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Buzz, I've often thought of EGW when I read that passage, also. When we are finally free to read Scripture for what it says instead of explaining it away because it doesn't agree with SDA theology, it suddenly makes completely new sense--and is cohesive and consistent.

I agree--it does describe what we've experienced.

Colleen
Jeremy
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Posted on Sunday, May 22, 2005 - 10:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, that is the key Bible passage that got me started on realizing that EGW was a false prophet. It fits her totally. Notice it says "such teachings come through hypocritical liars"--that's Ellen; she didn't even follow her own doctrines. (Well they weren't really her "own," because this text says they are doctrines of demons!)

Also it says, "whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron." That also fits Ellen. She would eat meat herself and talk about how she had a "good hot chicken broth" and then write, forbidding a woman who was dying in a Sanitarium from having chicken broth, when that was all she could eat!

What is also interesting about this passage is that it tells us that EGW herself was actually taught these doctrines by demons!

Jeremy

(Message edited by jeremy on May 22, 2005)
Drpatti
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Posted on Sunday, May 22, 2005 - 10:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, that passage does make me think of Ellen. Here is another one:
I was floored when I read this passage.
It is almost as if it is specifically prophesying Ellen!



quote:

Jeremiah 23:25 "I have heard what the prophets say who prophesy lies in my name. They say, 'I had a dream! I had a dream!' 26 How long will this continue in the hearts of these lying prophets, who prophesy the delusions of their own minds? 27 They think the dreams they tell one another will make my people forget my name, just as their fathers forgot my name through Baal worship. 28 Let the prophet who has a dream tell his dream, but let the one who has my word speak it faithfully. For what has straw to do with grain?" declares the LORD. 29 "Is not my word like fire," declares the LORD, "and like a hammer that breaks a rock in pieces?

30 "Therefore," declares the LORD, "I am against the prophets who steal from one another words supposedly from me. 31 Yes," declares the LORD, "I am against the prophets who wag their own tongues and yet declare, 'The LORD declares.' 32 Indeed, I am against those who prophesy false dreams," declares the LORD. "They tell them and lead my people astray with their reckless lies, yet I did not send or appoint them. They do not benefit these people in the least," declares the LORD.




Actually the whole chapter of Jeremiah 23 is signifcant!


Dt
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Posted on Monday, May 23, 2005 - 9:07 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jeremy,
Where can I find that passage about the chicken broth?
Pw
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Post Number: 449
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Posted on Monday, May 23, 2005 - 9:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think it's on the new SDA program "Talk Soup". :-)
Buzz
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Posted on Monday, May 23, 2005 - 12:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks and the Jeremiah texts also!
We continue to grow biblically and spiritually and this site has been helpful.
Jeremy
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Post Number: 681
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Posted on Monday, May 23, 2005 - 12:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think verse 21 of Jeremiah 23 also fits EGW well:


quote:

"I did not send these prophets,
yet they have run with their message;
I did not speak to them,
yet they have prophesied." (NIV.)




Dt,

Here are a few quotes:


quote:

We dared not leave the child in so critical a state, and decided to go unless there was a decided change for the worse. In two days we must commence our journey in order to reach the first appointment. We presented the case before the Lord, taking it as an evidence that if the child had appetite to eat we would venture. The first day there was no change for the better. He could not bear the least food. The next day about noon he called for chicken broth, and it nourished him. We commenced our journey that night. (Spiritual Gifts, Volume 2, page 166, paragraph 2.)

Thursday morning we arose from our berths refreshed with sleep. At eight o'clock we took a portion of the pressed chicken furnished us by the matron of the Sanitarium, put the same in a two-quart pail and placed it on the stove and thus we had good hot chicken broth. The morning was very cold and this hot dish was very palatable. I limited myself to only one meal each day during the entire journey. (Manuscript Releases, Volume Eleven, page 142, paragraph 3. [1880])

We have plenty of room, good food and plenty of it. Sister McComber scalded up the chicken. Will scald the meat tomorrow morning. We arrive at Ogden at seven tomorrow. I wish you had told me just how far you had paid for a sleeper; sleeping car conductor says [it was] only [paid] to Ogden, so we must go through that process of securing tickets in the Ogden depot. I shall get the porter to do this for me. (Manuscript Releases, Volume Eleven, page 147, paragraph 2. [1884])

"Dr. A-- asked me if, under any circumstances, I would advise the drinking of chicken broth if one were sick and could not take anything else into the stomach. I said, "There are persons dying of consumption, who, if they ask for chicken broth, should have it. But I would be very careful." The example should not injure a sanitarium or make excuse for others to think their case required the same diet. I asked Dr. A-- if she had such a case at the sanitarium. She said, "No; but I have a sister in the sanitarium at Wahroonga, who is very weak. She has weak, sinking spells, but cooked chicken she can eat." I said, "It would be best to remove her from the sanitarium." She answered, "Her husband is in the sanitarium, filling the position of physician.". . . .

I found Dr. B--'s wife in Washington in the same condition that Dr. A--'s sister is in. They said she was unable to eat anything but meat, and that her blood was turning to water. But the light given me was her impression that she must live on meat was not correct. I was instructed that she was placing herself mentally in a position in which she should not be. If she would discard the use of meat for one year, the unfavorable position in which she now is would be changed, and there would be an opportunity for healthy action to take place in her system. She could, if she overcame her meat eating, be in a much better condition and live to glorify God. . . .

The light given me is that if the sister you mention would brace up and cultivate her taste for wholesome food, all these sinking spells would pass away.

She has cultivated her imagination; the enemy has taken advantage of her weakness of body, and her mind is not braced to bear up against the hardships of everyday life. It is good, sanctified mind cure she needs, an increase of faith, and active service for Christ. She needs also the exercise of her muscles in outside practical labor. Physical exercise will be to her one of the greatest blessings of her life. She need not be an invalid, but a wholesome-minded, healthy woman, prepared to act her part nobly and well. (Manuscript Releases, Volume One, page 287, paragraph 4. [1905]




Jeremy

(Message edited by jeremy on May 23, 2005)
Belvalew
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Posted on Monday, May 23, 2005 - 2:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh Jeremy, how refreshing it is to be graced, once again, with a quotation from Ellen that showed her depth of sympathy for the suffering within the ranks of her church. Making someone work outside who has "sinking spells" sounds like just the thing to do. I think sinking spells means that this person was prone to pass out, but only her cardiac surgeon would know for sure.
Belva
Flyinglady
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Posted on Monday, May 23, 2005 - 5:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It makes me almost sick to read things like the above. So many things could have been wrong with this lady. If EGW had truly been a prophet and God wanted to give specific instructions for this lady, He would have done so. It makes me sick that her advice could have killed many people.
Diana
Jeremy
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Posted on Monday, May 23, 2005 - 5:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There are actually documented cases where her "inspired instructions" did kill people. Such as when she said not to go to doctors and not to use quinine. But she did not repent and was not sorrowful--she just blamed it on the people for being so "stupid" as to actually follow her requirements! Her conscience was certainly "seared as with a hot iron" as the 1 Timothy 4 text says!

Jeremy
Pw
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Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 6:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh man, what a warped woman. I can't get over the one medical phrase that blood was turning to water.

Another clear case of "Do as I say, but not as I do".

This just makes me want to kick myself for being so foolish as to follow and believe in this woman.
Another_carol
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Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 7:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I too understand this verse to go very well with the SDA position and belief. I came to this realization thru none other than my intense Bible Study for 6 months after my son-in-law was duped into SDA.

Another one that comes to my mind is:

2 Timothy 4:3
For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

Another one that really took me back when I first read it was:

Matthew 23:15
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

Jesus Himself is saying this and I thought how could He say something so awfull. I then realized that this is exactley what happens when the Gospel is reduced to a man made, can do theology.

May God give me understanding to help those who have fallen into the trap of false teaching, Carol
Colleentinker
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Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 11:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi, Another Carol! It's good to hear from you again! I also have been really struck by the Matthew quote above. Jesus wasn't vague or general; He clearly says that hypocrites who proselytize others into a false gospel make them children of hell. That is strong language!

The Spirit's continual work with us is so antithetical to our natural tendencies; He brings us to places of deeper and deeper "giving up" instead of into more and more "control" of our behavior and environment. And yet God's call to us is not to passivity; it's to active, willful decisions to release what we cherish to Jesus.

He is enough!

Colleen
Seekr777
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Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 1:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Colleen, "releasing" is one of the most difficult decisions we can make. I can only speak for myself but hanging on is my natural tendency and only when I allow the Spirit of Christ to enter in can I release things to Him.

Richard
Benevento
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Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 3:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi everyone, I need the encouragement of this website! I think 1 Tim 4:1-6 and probably the other good ones quoted do fit the SDA church, but down through the ages false teachers have been busy. They were busy in Pauls day. I just finished my second year at BSF (Bible Study Fellowship) and we studied Acts, and some other NT books. It was evident that we need to be alert and check any teaching against the Word of God.
I was amazed to learn how quickly false teachers came into the early church, and how hard the Apostles had to work to try to keep them out, but if they hadn't we wouldn't have all that good instruction.

I appreciate Colleen's Bible studies too--Thanks
Drpatti
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Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 4:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

I was amazed to learn how quickly false teachers came into the early church, and how hard the Apostles had to work to try to keep them out




True!
Interestingly, the same thing happened in Luther's time. He even predicted that after his death, people would turn back to legalism and lose sight of the power of the Gospel. Which is exactly what happened. Even to this day, it is difficult to find a belief system that does not tag some kind of works requirement onto our full salvation and acceptance with God.

Even after having left SDAism for the Gospel and having lived in that glorious truth for 25 years, I find myself thinking or acting judgmentally. Or wondering if I am wrong.

But then I go back to the Scriptures, and the Gospel jumps out to me from the pages again, and my faith is renewed.

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