| Author | Message | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 450 Registered: 7-2004 |
Would you be reassured if your minister were to make the following statement? ---------- That was the point. Some time ago I had a thread entitled something like Shall We Talk About Them or Us?. Unless we who are considered to be conservatives judge ourselves (that doesn't mean each other, but ourselves as a class) we will indeed be judged. We could well be lost along with those who we are saying are going to be lost! ---------- This is a comment by Pastor O'Ffill, and they are still pounding out the wrinkles of whether or not they are conservative in their religious approach. They seem not to have read that once they have given their hearts to Jesus that they can never fall from his hand. I'm not presumptious when I say that because I know all of the saving action for my soul comes from Jesus Christ my Saviour. The above statement comes from believing that you have to add your works to Jesus' salvational efforts. It almost makes me want to cry. How can such a belief be "The Truth?" | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1529 Registered: 3-2004  |
The truth is Jesus and once we are in His hands, because we love and accept Him and His sacrifice, we have His assurance He will never let us go. That is so much more reassuring then not knowing. I, too, want to cry when I see how unsure people are with there relationship with God, like those on the R/S web site. I continue to pray for them. Diana | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 457 Registered: 7-2004 |
Here is another quote from Onigiri made on the "Pastor's Desk" page, under "The other side of the same coin" thread: ---------- Quote: 'Teaching the truth' is very subjective don't you think? You mentioned that some hang a lot of weight on a pet doctrine. If the local pastor doesn't concur then should the person start their own church? The truth is absolute, purely objective. How well can we understand and assimilate the truth into our lives? That is another question Smile I've mentioned in other threads on this forum that there will not be any more organizations started by God before he comes back. The Seventh-day Adventist church is the last one. Would Jesus go to a church where the pastors advised their members that it was OK for them to have idols in their homes?, or where they refused admittance to friends he brought with him?, or where he knew the pastor paid people to get baptized? I do not believe so. That is why i am forced to stay away from most of the SDA churches in my area. We know that if we go where error is being forced home on the conscience, the angels will not pass the portals with us. It doesn't matter if the structure is a beer hall, or a church. Quote: Now, of coarse you know that conservative offshoots wouldn't dare call the conference churches Babylon But in fact, many of them are doing just that. colporteur's post of the 19th is very good! I would only add that probably in the near future we will have to physically flee from SDA church members, as our former brethren will become our bitterest enemies, something of which i've seen first hand on this forum this year. Quote: This is why I have often thought that the occupational hazzard of us conservative types is that we tend to be mean. A friend once excused his being hard on people as comparing himself with Nehemiah who once grabbed someone by the beard. But Nehemiah is not the role model for us. Our model is Jesus. They pulled out Jesus beard. But when he was reviled, he reviled not again. Yes, very true about conservative types slipping into hardness, legalism. But Nehemiah is a good role model too. Note that Jesus got a cat o' nine tails and drove everyone out of the temple. His comments about the leaders in his day being "blind", "vipers", "whited sepulchres" etc. are conveniently forgotten too as they do not fit in with the modern meme of "unconditional love". What is the guideline? I believe it is to be strong for Jesus, and die to self. If someone calls me names, punches me, slanders, reviles me....I must take it patiently with the knowledge that the Lord is watching it all. But when someone slanders, reviles, twists, obfuscates etc. Jesus and the truth he gave in his inspired word, then i must stand strong with a titanium-hard spine. ---------- I know these people think they are standing firm for their faith, but their confusion about the object of their faith (is it Ellen or Jesus) leaves them in a position to treat other members of the family of God unjustly. We here at FAF know this all too well because of the way we were handled at R/S. I wish them well, and pray for them, and most of all pray that they will one day come to know the true freedom and joy that comes from the born again experience. Give me Jesus! Belva | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1536 Registered: 3-2004 |
Only God can get through to the folks on R/S or any of the other web sites. God had us there for a while and now He is working on them in ways we cannot see. I am confident of that. Only God can Convict and Convince and that is what I pray for. He is not willing that any should perish, so we continue to pray for them that they will come to know Jesus and the freedom found in Him and no one else. He is so awesome. Diana | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 461 Registered: 7-2004 |
I may be wrong, but the very long thread that we all contributed to under "Contemporary Issues in Christianity" appears to have disappeared from R/S. If any of the rest of you can find it, please let me know where it is. I think there was also another long thread that had to do with The Great Controversy under their Sabbath School lessons, and that is also either gone or it has been "cleaned up" meaning we have been removed. The only one I could find was the "We've Been Fooled" thread under Pastor's Desk. I don't know whether we should be flattered or not, but if our posts have been removed it's because we said things that were just to controversial for SDA's to deal with. Someone thought it better to remove them than to face the questions they brought up. | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 462 Registered: 7-2004 |
I misspoke. It is still there, The Temple Curtain. I feel very protective of those threads because I truly believe that they are there, on an SDA site, by God's design. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1539 Registered: 3-2004 |
I guess the members of the SDA church have to be protected from us FAF people and what we say. They cannot read things and make up their minds for themselves. I am insulted by the removal because each person that writes on there is an adult and can think for themselves. Or I could be flattered that we spoke the truth and and the administration of the website could not handle it or considered it untrue. It really does not matter, because lots of people have read what was there. There was an email to Pastor O, after some FAF were banned from R/S, which said that it had been an interesting discussion and too bad it had been stopped or something like that. That e-mail is no longer there either. As we all have said we continue to pray for all of the R/S people. We truly do love you and Jesus want you to accept only Him. He is all you need. And He is so awesome. Diana | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 484 Registered: 7-2004 |
Finally! There is an interesting thread that has popped up on R/S. It seems that recently at Walla Walla, the students held a rally and called it "Godfest." Here is the link to R/S, and within that you will find a link to the information on the rally -- http://www.revivalsermons.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=616 If you read through all of the posts you will find that our activities with them earlier this year are mentioned (unkindly) again. This will be something that will be interesting for us to discuss as well as it has been for the "faithful" over at R/S. Belva | ||
| Heretic Registered user Username: Heretic Post Number: 111 Registered: 2-2005 |
I found this post from Ejclark of particular interest:
It's a shame that they can't see how that last statement applies to other areas of SDAism such as EGW's writings and Revelation seminars. Now granted it would be less than 99% truth in those stated cases but you get the idea. You can't have it both ways. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1576 Registered: 3-2004 |
I thought similiar thoughts when I read the R/S web site. Let us continue to pray for them. Diana | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 358 Registered: 3-2005 |
Belva, I agree that that link you posted just above is very interesting. Diane and Justin are doing some great posting on that particular thread, and it is well worth reading. Go to page 4 of that thread, and at the very top, Larry Lyons gets on his high horse, ripping into Lonnie Melashenko of the VOP, for his book on learning to be tolerant of different styles of music. We have to be fair. Melashenko, so many times sounds like a genuine evangelical if you listen to his broadcasts, and if you did not know what the VOP Bible studies were teaching--and this might just be the problem, as he comes off as sounding as true any other evangelical. This book he wrote on music deserves our applause, and you can read aabout it on the R/S thread. Stan | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 710 Registered: 10-2004  |
Wow...I can't believe that some of those posts are serious! I mean that one guy was actually calling pizza and clowns "satanic" and "darkness"!! But of course he was just sounding like the founder and cult leader of the crazy legalistic SDA cult--Ellen G. White. Jeremy (Message edited by jeremy on June 02, 2005) | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 487 Registered: 7-2004 |
It saddened me to see how the efforts of the students at Walla Walla were condemned outright. That is what got me started reading at first, but then as I continued reading I got pulled in because so much of what was said sounded like the arguments that I had encountered, to some degree or another, in my own youth. There is nothing new about the fearfulness that is expressed with regard to modern music. Every generation has had to hear the prior generations declare that the music they are listening to was the work of the Devil. It comes across as a knee-jerk response to me. It is truly sad when the older generations have to resort to condemnation automatically every time the youth of SDA schools (and other Christian organizations as well) thinking that the kids can be controlled with frowning and condemning everything they put their energy into. I think it was Jjustinn who said that they needed to show a little tolerance, and that if God was not in the manner of presenting their message, it would become extremely clear very quickly. I'm too willing to give people the benefit of the doubt, I suppose, but I think it may be a little like what the pharasees said about the zeal of the disciples after Jesus' resurrection, "If we make too much of this thing now, we will only draw more attention to it. "If it is of God, we won't be able to fight it, and if it is not, it will fizzle out on its own." Okay, I paraphrased it, but I did get the attitude right. | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 498 Registered: 7-2004 |
The following list was constructed by Colporteur as a protection against legalism, without coping out to liberalism. ---------- "How never to become a Liberal" 1 Never seek to delegate degrees of Inspiration to prophectic writings when it is clearly revealed that Jesus is the author of all. 2 Never emphasize love while excluding the biblical defining qualities of love . 3. Always seek to rise up to the higher standard as opposed to finding the lowest common denominator. 4. Resist the temptation to view obedience as legalism. 5. Study carefully the Scriptures so as to not missapply legalism and Pharisseism to faithful church members today who are willing to call sin by its right name. 6. Do not allow a previous bout with legalism unbalance you so as not to be able to see obedience and love as going together. 7. Realize that to compromise with the world and her lifestyles is not progressive liberality and freedom but bondage. 8. Thou shalt not allow majority numbers and higher education to determine what is truth. The opposite has always been true. 9. Remember that because we are not saved by works does not mean that we are not judged by our works. 10. Do not allow culture to sanctify sin in its contemporary forms. 11. Resist the temptation to say in our hearts, "God says but I think." 12. Believe that God is big enough and willing enough to free us from all sinful behavior and thoughts. ---------- Once again he is pinning all of his hopes on God making him perfect before Jesus comes again. Prior to that, however, it appears he thinks he has a lot of work to do. | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 822 Registered: 7-2003  |
Hmmm.......I actually think these are pretty good points. In fact, I could agree whole heartedly with these points if it were not for the theological construct that I know underlies them. Think about it.... Go back and read all 12 points from an evangelical Christian perspective and they're actually pretty good. I was wondering if Col may have borrowed these from an evangelical source and then mentally applied them to SDA distinctives. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that they are original. I have to commend him for well thought out points. ......Of course Col wouldn't like how I would interpret and apply each of the points....... :-) Chris | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1598 Registered: 3-2004 |
Chris, I agree with you. As I read the above points, I thought they were good, except for the fact that the SDAs put a different spin on each one. Colporteur would not like how I interpret and apply each point either. Diana | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 914 Registered: 7-2003  |
Isn't that the rub...we can agree on completely different things even though we agree on the "same" words.... I have found that has shut my mouth many a time...I know B thinks the same towards me "he/she just needs to let the Holy Spirit guide his/her life...." He thinks I'm as wrong as I think he is and he thinks his reasoning is as "spiritually lead" as I think mine is. He's as concerned for my spiritual "well being" as I am for his. He thinks I've missed the "whole" gospel, just as I think he's missed it. How do you argue with that? | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 499 Registered: 7-2004 |
I've "debated" with Col in the past and I know the spin he places on things. In Point #1, he's defending Dear Ellen. Point #2, his Bible definition of love is the 10C's. Point #3, I believe, we have discussed on the thread where we have been welcoming Baby Dakota. Point #4 is once again discussing the 10C's, as are Points #5 and #6. I happen to agree with him about Point #7. I shrink back from words like "never" and "always," but having said that there is merit to what he says in Point #8. Because I know that I am saved, and as a result have passed from judgment to life everlasting, Point #9 tends to set off alarm bells for me -- who is going to do the judging, and why is the judging important. My sins, terrible as they are, have already been paid for, and that is now between me and Jesus. If he wants to have a little personal talk with me about them, that's okay, but no one else has the right to judge me. Points #10 and #11 are valid and necessary. Point #12, if I remember some of the things Col said, is based on his belief that the only ones who will be saved when Jesus comes again will those whose lives are spotless clean, even to the point of thought (meaning Sabbath keepers), and this is Pure EGW. This belief is based on the backward formula of Redemption + Works = Salvation, and I will not buy into that again! If I've been a little hard on our friend, I'm sorry. His list, without the SDA mindset, is a good one; however, I know he is applying that dreadful mindset, and that sets my teeth on edge. Jesus Loves Me, I don't understand it, certainly don't deserve it, could never earn it, but still he does and I will hold onto that from here to eternity. Belva | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 826 Registered: 7-2003 |
Belva, in reference to point #9. I believe the Bible does teach the concept of a judgment of works for reward (NOT salvation). This judgment does not determine our eterenal destiny, that is secure and is based on faith in Jesus alone. But there seems to be some way in which are work for Christ in this life continues to echo throughout eternity. Perhaps those who are faithful with much in this life are given even more responsibility in Heaven. We don't really know for sure what this "reward" entails, but it does seem to be taught in scripture. Chris | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 916 Registered: 7-2003 |
And even if all our works burn up when tried by fire, we are still saved.... 1 Corin 3:12-15. Verse 14 assures us works are tested for rewards, not salvation. |
